From: "Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: First engine run -- prop or not?
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 07:23:05 +0800
References: <list-334988@logan.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-334988@logan.com>
Message-Id: <5EDB904B-C793-4215-B25A-4776FB64A830@gmail.com>

Hi Finn and all.

As the years have gone by its hard to remember various things but:
1. The EC2  .asm file (Actual EC2 Controller code - for non coders) that =
I think I reprogrammed my EC2 with years ago is called EC2CL8.asm
The CL is a hint me thinks.=20
2. I have a recollection that I had the mode#1 autotune function (not =
the original EM3 capability) working years ago ie. manually causing =
mixture rich, and EC would trim it back.

I=E2=80=99m headed for the hangar this morning so I=E2=80=99ll:
1. First I=E2=80=99ll try using mode#5 to change the O2 setting and see =
if my software version has this capability. I have both narrow and =
wideband sensors.
	I think when I last tried the autotune feature I had the =
wideband connected but the data dump confirms its setup for a narrowband =
sensor.
2. If it does change in the Data Dump Screen - Row 1 Col 2 changing to =
16h (currently 12h) then I=E2=80=99ll then try out the autotune again.
3. I=E2=80=99d like to know which version of the code its using and how =
the mixture table is divided. Is it the 8 table version?
	General mixture settings are sort off OK at the moment for TO =
and cruise, but when we pull power and point her=20
	at the ground she goes way lean and outside of the manual =
mixtures controls ability to correct.

For any non-coders that want to understand what we are talking about =
here:
The Datadump screen presents the data in Hexadecimal not Decimal.=20
We can represent numbers using various number systems. We tend to see =
the world through the Decimal number system (Oh that the US had adopted =
it fully!!!!)
In decimal each digit of a number can be 0-9 (ten states - therefore =
called DECimal)=20
Because of the nature of how digital computers, that inherently are =
simply millions of switches that can be ON or OFF binary is the native =
language (two states - 0 OR 1)
So my EC2=E2=80=99s (8-bit) ENG CODE  can visualised/represented as =
00010010 binary OR 18 decimal OR 12 hexadecimal=20

But reading binary is much more difficult for our brains and we can =
process this so much faster represented by 2 Hex digits rather than 8 =
binary digits.
- so each digit has the range 0-16 (16 states 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C =
D E F)

So my ENGCODE - 12h in DataDump Screen is -> 00010010 binary
Binary is written from right to left)
          =20
           Bit  0 - Non Turbo (0)

            Bit 1 - Large Secondaries (1)

            Bit  2 - Narrow Band O2 Sensor (0)

            Bit 3 - Temp Sensor (0)

            Bit 4 - Rotary (1)

            Bit 5 - BUSensor (0)

            Bit 6 - Cont

            Bit 7 - CSON

Hoping thats not unhelpful!

Steve Izett


> On 5 Jun 2020, at 2:33 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>=20
> To clarify, here is an excerpt from the EC3 manual:
>=20
> "CLOSED  LOOP MODES OF OPERATION.
> NOTE!   As of  9-12-2012  the EC3 includes a BETA version of the =
software that enables 2 closed loop modes as described below.   DO NOT =
enable them in flight until you are certain they are working properly on =
the ground.   You should also follow the instructions for setting up =
Mode 3 and 1 BEFORE trying these Closed Loop modes of operation. =20
>=20
> Before attempting operation in Closed loop mode, Make sure you have =
selected the type of O2 sensor you are using for either Narrow Band or =
Wideband sensors.  See Mode 5 instructions for details on doing this.
>=20
>  There are two closed loop modes.   When  Mode 1 is selected  with =
Cold Start switch ON the controller monitors the mixture and trims the =
injection to keep mixture close to the mixture point programmed in Mode =
0A  as long as the basic programming is within trim range which is =
pretty wide.    If this mode is working properly you should see the EC3 =
bring the mixture back to the set point after making a manual mixture =
control adjustment that would normally take it out of range.  If you =
can't verify this, do not try the auto program mode of closed loop (Mode =
3)
>=20
> The target for the closed loop modes is set in Mode 0A,  engine =
running, Mode 0 selected and cold start switch off.  With the engine =
running and warmed up, adjust the mixture control to the desired =
operating point by observing the mixture monitor.  If the monitor isn't =
working for any reason don't try to set this until it is.  When at the =
desired mixture, press the Store button.  The mixture target should now =
be set. =20
>=20
> The other closed loop mode (Mode 3 selected  with Cold Start switch =
ON) is the auto programming mode that adjusts the MAP table.  It  works =
the same way but uses a  narrow trim range and updates the map table if =
necessary to keep the mixture near the mixture point programmed in Mode  =
0A .   Since the loop is all internal to the EC3 it happens faster than =
the EM2/3 auto program mode in earlier versions and of course does not =
require the EM2/3 to work.   Should eliminate a lot of tuning headaches =
for some builders. Manual programming Modes 1 & 3 operate as described =
later in this manual with Cold Start switch off".
>=20
> Looks like for the stand-alone EC3 auto tune it must have the =
Closed-loop option.
>=20
> Does you EC2 have that?
>=20
> Finn=20
>=20
>=20
> On 6/4/2020 1:58 PM, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com wrote:
>> I also have the EC2 & EM2 with the autotune. It does work, but it =
only makes changes to the map table at the address that you are =
currently on due to your throttle position. Moving your throttle =
position to other addresses will result in gaps where it is hard to hit =
each address using the auto tune. At this point though you should have a =
decent base line to work with and you can just manually go through the =
table to make adjustments as it will be obvious which ones need to be =
adjusted. Then repeat as required.
>> But as Andrew pointed out it uses a narrow-band O2 sensor, so it is =
not great. I have a PLX wide-band O2 sensor that also has a narrow-band =
output that feeds the input to the EM2. I can't say for sure but it did =
seem to give a more responsive signal to the EM2, which improved the =
auto tune. But as it also gives a very accurate and responsive wide-band =
output to it's own display, which is essential for fine tuning manually.
>>=20
>> Todd Bartrim
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 7:57 AM Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>> I have 2007 EC2, EM2 has autotune feature, I just found it quicker to =
tune manually as its setup for narrowband o2 sensor, but used wideband.
>> Andrew
>>=20
>> On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 at 10:14 pm, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>> I doubt there's auto tune in the EC2, but what do I know?
>>=20
>> OK, looked in EC2 source code, last comment ;10-09-05 (Oct 2005), so =
I=20
>> doubt it.
>> There's also source code for EC2F, what ever that is. Latest comment=20=

>> there is ;03-16-12
>>=20
>> No mention of auto tune in either.
>>=20
>> I could be wrong.
>>=20
>> Finn
>>=20
>> On 6/4/2020 9:01 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote:
>> > Hi Finn & all
>> >
>> > Can anyone using an EC2 confirm if the Autotune functions works for =
them?
>> > Not the autotune built into the EM3 engine monitor, the EC2 =
version.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Steve Izett
>> >
>> >> On 2 Jun 2020, at 10:10 pm, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Finn
>> >>
>> >> Thanks for the updated EC3 doc. I had an older version.
>> >>
>> >> Steve
>> >>
>> >>> On 2 Jun 2020, at 9:28 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Yes, after putting the EC3 into injector test mode and checking =
that each is clicking (screwdriver as stethoscope) and into ignition =
test mode and see that all four plugs are firing, that would be my next =
step.
>> >>>
>> >>> You say you've already checked that the wiring to coils and =
injectors are correct:
>> >>> J2-3 Prim Inj 1
>> >>> J2-4 Sec Inj 1
>> >>> ...
>> >>> J2-10 Trail Coil 1
>> >>> ...
>> >>>
>> >>> I continuously surprised myself on how often I'd wired something =
wrong, in spite of trying to be very careful about getting it right. I =
wasn't kidding about Murphy working overtime.
>> >>> It's easy to get the pin numbering wrong on the connectors.
>> >>>
>> >>> If I were getting desperate, I would remove (one at a time) the =
connectors on the injectors and coils and check continuity from J2 pin =
to the connector pin.
>> >>> (You know that the power side are correct because works with EC2)
>> >>> Finn
>> >>> Got the copper washers in the mail today, but think I'll wait for =
these:
>> >>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/293592023854
>> >>>
>> >>> On 6/1/2020 7:30 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote:
>> >>>> Thanks Finn.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I had a chance to unpack the dump last night and conquer with =
your reflection.
>> >>>> I=E2=80=99m in the dark re the EC3. Checked wiring twice now.
>> >>>> I must put a cro on the injectors and coils to confirm they are =
triggering correctly.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Steve
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On 1 Jun 2020, at 9:59 pm, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Program Mode 5 (Reset function)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> As of 01-25-13 the EC3 can be used with either the common =
narrowband O2 sensors or the more advanced wideband sensor systems.   Be =
sure to verify that your wideband sensor outputs in the range of 0 - +5 =
volts if using a wideband type.  To select the type in use, use the =
power up program mode method below:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> To select the O2 sensor type , perform the following steps:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> 1.  Turn the EC3 power off.
>> >>>>> 2.  Select mode 5 with the Mode Select switch
>> >>>>> 3.  Select the O2 sensor type using the Cold Start switch:  Up =
=3D Wideband, Down =3D Narrowband
>> >>>>> 4.  Press and hold the Program Store switch.
>> >>>>> 5.  While holding down the Program Store switch, turn on the =
power switch to the EC3.
>> >>>>> 6.  Keep holding the Program Store switch for about 1 second, =
and then release it.
>> >>>>> 7.   Return the Mode Select switch to 0.
>> >>>>> 8.   Power the EC3 off.   When the EC3 is powered up again it =
will be set for the O2 sensor type selected.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Uploaded doc to:
>> >>>>> =
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1mVzPOxUwcGUlPizxnRF40nUyKBzfT4DC?u=
sp=3Dsharing
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> PDF version still states that B is automatically programmed =
when A is programmed. Not true. Use the Word doc.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Finn
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On 6/1/2020 9:16 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com =
wrote:
>> >>>>>> Hi Finn
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> How does the mode 5 O2 sensor change work.
>> >>>>>> Ive not found this in the EC3 documentation.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Steve
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On 31 May 2020, at 4:08 am, Stephen Izett =
stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Hi Finn
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Thats good news.
>> >>>>>>> At some point I=E2=80=99ll plug the EC3 in and see what the =
EM3 reports.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> We=E2=80=99re finally back in the air and testing again after =
the last 3 months of responding to COVID here in Perth.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Last mods included some reshaping of inlets and diffusers and =
tidying up the inlet manifold (grinding smooth some weld that had =
penetrated into the runners).
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Yesterday our Renesis 4 port max fuel flow is up 10% to I =
think a reasonably accurate 18 gal/hr at 7100rpm, 29.5 inch of MAP and =
mixture at best power.
>> >>>>>>> We burn our Australian Premium Unleaded with no Ethanol which =
I believe is 6.26 lb/gal so I=E2=80=99m thinking thats around 190hp.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Cheers
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Steve
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On 31 May 2020, at 12:58 am, Finn Lassen =
finn.lassen@verizon.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Wrong engine code solved!
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I looked at the dates of files in the EC3CL folder. These =
files were not updated to the date I programmed the EC3:
>> >>>>>>>> ECCL8.cof
>> >>>>>>>> ECCL8.map
>> >>>>>>>> ECCL8.O
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> <mcppihngfoiehjon.png>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> So I started from scratch:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Unzipped the EC3CL folder.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Set ENG =3D A8; LS2COIL, LGSEC and WIDEBAND to 1 and rest to =
0.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Did "Erase", "Clean" and "Build All" and "Program" in MPLAB =
and reinstalled chip for controller A.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Now EM3 correctly shows "A8" for engine code.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Changed to narrow band using mode 5, and EM3 display =
correctly changed from 16 to 12 for ENGINFO.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I must have chosen the "Make" option in MPLAB when I first =
programmed the chips, I guess.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Unfortunately I must have damaged the controller B CPU chip =
when handling it (MPLAB reports device ID =3D 0) and will have to order =
a new one.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Finn
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Still waiting for the $1.79 shipped copper washers to arrive =
in mail. Maybe I should bite the bullet and order five (six) Stat-O-Seal =
washer/O-rings at $8.56 per pack of two. $25.68 total :(
>> >>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> >>>>>>> Archive and UnSub:   =
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> >>>>>> Archive and UnSub:   =
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> >>>>> Archive and UnSub:   =
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> >>>> Archive and UnSub:   =
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> >>> Archive and UnSub:   =
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> >> Archive and UnSub:   =
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>> >
>> > --
>> > Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> > Archive and UnSub:   =
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>> >
>>=20
>>=20
>> --
>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> Archive and UnSub:   =
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>> --=20
>> Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag
>=20
>=20