X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=RZTu9Glv c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=EG6Wxa21mlO1ov8RJXsCQg==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=A-0mRrAPPO4A:10 a=sTwFKg_x9MkA:10 a=o1OHuDzbAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=gINh1MEVelz3aRWOsJAA:9 a=0_tWybI0f5IHFnq-:21 a=Jqjt1h6EOjs2S1zi:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=b_mStlNUsxov6OfEgoQA:9 a=zuEDpnb3clacEDzV:21 a=LFRqlfDHITzPihfs:21 a=I_eHhrHRqjWrsmOc:21 a=5YQ6H4ZxyGn-KoBYtt8s:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" Received: from mail-il1-f172.google.com ([209.85.166.172] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 287407 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 25 May 2020 09:05:54 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.166.172; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-il1-f172.google.com with SMTP id r2so6059383ila.4 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 06:05:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=U+3ezMO12eNhH7My4tYhLcaEfz8qL2dy8kxh4ktZxC4=; b=FuLVB9ZJ4OAbuxNVtFYBj8htB6NLlIsFfmD5IKitFg7vQxcxSIHRk7su2vY0rTbSOt xePoTi6LfxSIe37rR3d0q6Hfd93mXRo1CMcLDDBtxYbaO5+r/dhdMcA/At56mU6+nGje NqoiJEhGNHq6Q6YPI4NBRAG8aFlRI0M1MFtaH2aksHWY4AdK0ZcmPVnq2WLnUiykGQCI RoYGKRbOdDmE+yi2Os8oJ8RRST57jv4grZCGm3zg0cxD/cWxZF3kkHJZKGawAe3NpeFG DjxD2zpUP6Fub4+bK8RpEuoYQEF6ljLSoJXaFRfBYk/ClYinFoh0Mhz1zXNb3GFKM0sS iHyg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=U+3ezMO12eNhH7My4tYhLcaEfz8qL2dy8kxh4ktZxC4=; b=cwJXCjQ8aTIp842LtcXz+dd0gBXRQ0dSeZyIu6XLBwhZnEumH8NoAQQWfs3CVv6CkI XszBSlP8w3EJDmYFoeq+cLM46BZy1Te4GUvdYDyl873NxTYPzROV000EjtmTzdlew2NR aaRRWIaY6qpD1Vvw27q+elNShV6dbXIKMQFDWQG39V12f3lY40Ct9blDH6cdYr9+zuqy wnPr6fi9CXH5+OsrimCOyA9T+6YQiT766DDfD2HW/3x5n8bQIqI3cMhT8uRLfbr7cOW8 cjSuMUYuzto33Aw2iVnoOj1XJrmsrKcl3Rzy0O9Lq+KVwrBW+UDt6CXaTxGRll0d0Dw8 jiPQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533erAA1CCsn1aZ6BC6p+k+5zjd54hyS1JuRBMCqkpRZTCeKWBK6 SqVOxw6BD3yvP9CQz0LP6i4lpOlE8+DBAhhfjkOBRw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxVpXbCyurz2OCebQK9qZ9fHWnQzGlQC9tdpMoB9B5yJ0PDykmmssR7YTzB7NTAZ/VEofhsEuhZ3cuqPVFWeTM= X-Received: by 2002:a92:984e:: with SMTP id l75mr24810348ili.22.1590411936595; Mon, 25 May 2020 06:05:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 07:59:54 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: First engine run -- prop or not? To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000087049405a678a2c4" --00000000000087049405a678a2c4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 10:34 PM Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Good point. From the log I think it was running lean. I'm temporarily > using a narrow band O2 sensor. I think I'll hook a multimeter directly to > it to bypass any errors from sensor to EC3 and EC3 to EM3 and its display. > And I have to read the EC3 manual :) > > Those o-rings were a bad idea. If I'd had a mill and could have milled > recesses to retain them from expanding out under pressure they might work. > But an o-ring between two flat surfaces is probably bad design. If sucking > air, won't I see that in the return line as bubbles? > You won't if you use proper fuel line. ;-) The big issue is loss of power if it starts sucking air at a critical time. I've got a couple of friends who fly big-Continental powered Globe Swifts. They've both had forced landings (one of them multiple times) before they found that the ancient flex lines feeding the fuel pump had dried out and were porous to air but not fuel. Never leaked fuel, but would intermittently suck air and cause engine stoppage. Charlie > > Finn > > > On 5/24/2020 10:56 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote: > > Congrats on 1st run. Doubt that the issue is no prop; they idle ok in the > car without one. ;-) > > Don't neglect the input side; those pumps will suck air even better than > fuel. > > Charlie > > On 5/24/2020 9:01 PM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote: > > Probably too early to give you that. (Used 8.10 and PICkit2). > > Ran for the first time today (no prop). > > Over speeding not an issue. Ran like a Harley :( > No sure if because no prop or because not tuned yet or if something else > wrong. > > Zero RPM readout on EM3. I must have misunderstood the instructions or the > program. I thought the EM3 got RPM from the EC3, so I didn't wire the tach > input to the EM3. > EM3 shows "NOP" until EC3 is turned on. Then shows "0". > > Only did a couple of runs. Fuel pumps started leaking badly around O-rings > when I adjusted fuel pressure up to 37psi (engine not running). Pooled up > in fuselage. Need to fix before I try running again. Gas is cheap, but not > that cheap. I'll try copper washers on the pressure (output) side instead > of the o-rings. > > Yes, I know, not pretty. Threaded the output fitting at an angle :( > Too lazy to redo the output block. > I also need to bend a new input tube without a kink. > > Max oil pressure only about 50 psi, hopefully because of low RPM. > Forgot to turn on master switch so alternator didn't come on-line. > Didn't log the run where that worked. > > Anyhow, can now say I've run the engine :) > > Finn > > On 5/22/2020 6:12 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote: > > Great work Finn > Could I get the MPLABs version your using and any more info for the build. > I could build and program and confirm the burn but the EC3 ran like a dog. > > Steve > > > > > On 22 May 2020, at 9:16 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote: > > Well, after several hours of Murphy working overtime, I finally was able to get the wiring on my EC3 chip programming board right, chips programmed and EC3 installed. > > Flux capacitor fluxing, injectors clicking and spark plug firing. > > Time to get the wheels on and roll it out and start the engine. > > Oh, wait, guess I need to finish and install the prop :( > > Finn > > > On 5/21/2020 9:23 AM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote: > > 1) Without prop any vibration will be from engine and PSRU and can inspect engine (leaks, etc.) with no fear of prop. > > 2) With prop less chance of over rev and some cooling air through rads and oil cooler. > > What do you think? > > Finn > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > <#m_5235908260796982300_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > > --00000000000087049405a678a2c4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 10:34 PM Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= ; wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Good point. From the log I think it was running lean. I'm temporarily using a narrow band O2 sensor. I think I'll hook a multimeter directly to it to bypass any errors from sensor to EC3 and EC3 to EM3 and its display. And I have to read the EC3 manual=C2=A0 :)

Those o-rings were a bad idea. If I'd had a mill and could have milled recesses to retain them from expanding out under pressure they might work. But an o-ring between two flat surfaces is probably bad design. If sucking air, won't I see that in the return line as bubbles?
You won't if you use prope= r fuel line. ;-)=C2=A0The big issue is= loss of power if it starts sucking air at a critical time.=C2=A0I've got a couple = of friends who fly big-Continental powered Globe Swifts. They've both h= ad forced landings (one of them multiple times) before they found that the = ancient flex lines feeding the fuel pump had dried out and were porous to a= ir but not fuel. Never leaked fuel, but would intermittently suck air and c= ause engine stoppage.

Charlie

Finn


On 5/24/2020 10:56 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote:
=20
Congrats on 1st run. Doubt that the issue is no prop; they idle ok in the car without one. ;-)

Don't neglect the input side; those pumps will suck air even better than fuel.

Charlie

On 5/24/2020 9:01 PM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote:
=20
Probably too early to give you that. (Used 8.10 and PICkit2).

Ran for the first time today (no prop).

Over speeding not an issue. Ran like a Harley :(=C2=A0
No sure if because no prop or because not tuned yet or if something else wrong.

Zero RPM readout on EM3. I must have misunderstood the instructions or the program. I thought the EM3 got RPM from the EC3, so I didn't wire the tach input to the EM3.
EM3 shows "NOP" until EC3 is turned on. Then shows &quo= t;0".

Only did a couple of runs. Fuel pumps started leaking badly around O-rings when I adjusted fuel pressure up to 37psi (engine not running). Pooled up in fuselage. Need to fix before I try running again. Gas is cheap, but not that cheap. I'll try copper washers on the pressure (output) side instead of the o-rings.

Yes, I know, not pretty. Threaded the output fitting at an angle :(
Too lazy to redo the output block.
I also need to bend a new input tube without a kink.

Max oil pressure only about 50 psi, hopefully because of low RPM.
Forgot to turn on master switch so alternator didn't come on-line.
Didn't log the run where that worked.

Anyhow, can now say I've run the engine :)

Finn

On 5/22/2020 6:12 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote:
Great work Finn
Could I get the MPLABs version your using and any more info for the build.
I could build and program and confirm the burn but the EC3 ran like a dog.

Steve




On 22 May 2020, at 9:16 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net <flyrotary@=
lancaironline.net> wrote:

Well, after several hours of Murphy working overtime, I finally was able to=
 get the wiring on my EC3 chip programming board right, chips programmed an=
d EC3 installed.

Flux capacitor fluxing, injectors clicking and spark plug firing.

Time to get the wheels on and roll it out and start the engine.

Oh, wait, guess I need to finish and install the prop :(

Finn


On 5/21/2020 9:23 AM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote:

1) Without prop any vibration will be from engine and PS=
RU and can inspect engine (leaks, etc.) with no fear of prop.

2) With prop less chance of over rev and some cooling air through rads and =
oil cooler.

What do you think?

Finn



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