X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=RZTu9Glv c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=MvlwEDyywG5MngySn19H1g==:117 a=sTwFKg_x9MkA:10 a=nbwDJ09AQ6IA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=o1OHuDzbAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=X-mz-_A2eWP92Mzd9FEA:9 a=Hi7kD0cPEmZnaXSb:21 a=bwSDf6K8phs5mI36:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=N5WFsjKAs2l1SSx5Z20A:9 a=m1RDXVSMA84OpVLz:21 a=w3KtoBHvzK_pZTyB:21 a=Gg29BUJInRmf9qaQ:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=5YQ6H4ZxyGn-KoBYtt8s:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net" Received: from sonic307-10.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.190.33] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 285827 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 24 May 2020 23:34:22 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.163.190.33; envelope-from=finn.lassen@verizon.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=verizon.net; s=a2048; t=1590377646; bh=CkRDdtu7FTYpBR4Ajmw8dHR/P5WND0vpFRKUDCzlNv8=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=nepM3+QIMBHjjP4AwX3CuFLoCDMWBo181EPaeNsAiaW+Z5ncjgoz4cRXmXQB6QlcdIyHovzWwIUYPSrOaFSGTsqBwkFq2QEbXZk44Und3F2OMX0jlrKLfBP5+FUVoPr8FEPyAcPfnGF3gxwYRQXBlhfC0OpWAz1iIIwqw0Y1MIccnx6RSdK28/f+oMOV1IhSf4PmFS7TrNubwv9rjRJKHV74sYSiAcNS0SNs4Q3on5AbJo+lONjKpnm09QX6XD8+qDq28jQa22gUfFd7xBL7QWjd+eSn4PSiHTGJxEIe9WuPRucZz8hG+u1j2ghCUYt4vwRa/3PdGmSDY7qa8d0rPw== X-YMail-OSG: 0Turut0VM1mkiPJ2lcSRdFAycOJHaeohYIwJ3O7Q.FCNcDHrm3E7BLfXIhqRMZG tt1lM0ZvkGieoQzR6sO1a.2q1sTd63202yiR2JWveTKdlarpDfs_5f72cSgA8GcGjBCnjmDe4rzq QSrDTFoDzWH_ZzriY4Sj3v7vhSEQYM.U.zL70iaTyv66U4PgbYYnQi154BDfMTIiBFVOAgJxxHrL NB3BCa3hRadQhHhNr4Zhl_ihsjx9KVz2LD3aP5HG.58jEr.POcCp4OaxcfcDcyROTcdv6X6YK9WJ BcXhYkxFHoQ6uPl8WYT2iJe2LoSRWQBRaC7pDJV9dz3RdvEt4Lw8BftLsy9F9D9P_g5K4p5rif1B 6GSaqT67JztH4RUIRt9Dg6ZqfS4WH9lyygp1NkyS4e4ymRE8gECPkCBBWmLYNzzOcB4l3dRoYC.I by0PrP7AmVXjQ8iOeqIIi7iwgKi7_krOcg1lLpbyhM335KLl3sqJIVg1wNkupg_tYfMdu021EnFd U5xFJhLUCIo.0eayz6RkMjSJu9J.VmBUJ7bJg_OLdTkoueMyn1Xzigf7uiVueujiX1L25KJddZ5V z_O8mAKty33hS.oMnFout8zwl0yX9PnIfszzf57fm5MbNzXJLvomHs8v.hQ69BwPZzkvGwbHiH8p W1NHcLcdqXQlchuAY6egtGMLhLQsXCbSfvc_UDB1zxUolsN5Z3KkFkmp8mcx7ZVMpSw9CUxCOXW. FFcOWT8N4IlBuNkGSG4pEyLusk6mkXRSY4EwcKzyde.oUH0z6czIkTLTD1EWneGkR0lLBphCh0b2 .iUPPGf_vQ1sacbH1DAr0Dyl4kq60uUiB4WH7tNCu4ieOb.N.Ql.qg3ecHcNM4eXYGhpx5fAgePI tqp0SY_FLzgm3frNBNjQ48bMjCc0Zpx7SvloqwJ_O0DmWQ4pjSvmn0wqvGHyrrl2xa.96WeifNiu UnPFLWEDtL5c7jGqt_jMdhb8cc3_juJdFBPovsLDuyT5ufukf3MtJv362rhcXgGUGI_HnkiTCHdl hONcM0ki27aYBT6Z67q39yQQuUqNd2gN7tcAEY0TM2PzAdjGe4wTVhvYoekOi7xL8EwXn_MvKIXF NpbM10HrD6qQl.NtIrfDxmPspYAWFJuazXxjvo4d_NZSFBUoTKvQvksqdqMTcH3cwgBSv9Xa5rzm _suHmJyb4nT_5C0jY7VF8eY2LkCSMuVoMJiapUkvInCAojjyEW3l4QBVxJszSftbSnxZNByrjgcz 9siX6KT9T87XLKkjzoe3pbh9UDxLYEPscbSoHwXrz8qigtSGPbI1ltydnHnpPly97NHeHZ_zfgTa IG52J86I0HBirU.EffWcyyQnQ8E5ipzYew7RDAV6IJ7Kx8KzLwko5JFW7Fgob_yXkTl1HnDNeNq4 - Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic307.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 25 May 2020 03:34:06 +0000 Received: by smtp417.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 4d864b45f5a8de7d09fa25b995646f10; Mon, 25 May 2020 03:34:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: First engine run -- prop or not? To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: <8ac61ae4-c70d-cfe6-a405-1216d4e8e351@verizon.net> Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 23:33:59 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------D990DE232AEE681E65A78E3A" Content-Language: en-US X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.15960 hermes_aol Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.6) Content-Length: 12678 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D990DE232AEE681E65A78E3A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good point. From the log I think it was running lean. I'm temporarily using a narrow band O2 sensor. I think I'll hook a multimeter directly to it to bypass any errors from sensor to EC3 and EC3 to EM3 and its display. And I have to read the EC3 manual  :) Those o-rings were a bad idea. If I'd had a mill and could have milled recesses to retain them from expanding out under pressure they might work. But an o-ring between two flat surfaces is probably bad design. If sucking air, won't I see that in the return line as bubbles? Finn On 5/24/2020 10:56 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote: > Congrats on 1st run. Doubt that the issue is no prop; they idle ok in > the car without one. ;-) > > Don't neglect the input side; those pumps will suck air even better > than fuel. > > Charlie > > On 5/24/2020 9:01 PM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote: >> Probably too early to give you that. (Used 8.10 and PICkit2). >> >> Ran for the first time today (no prop). >> >> Over speeding not an issue. Ran like a Harley :( >> No sure if because no prop or because not tuned yet or if something >> else wrong. >> >> Zero RPM readout on EM3. I must have misunderstood the instructions >> or the program. I thought the EM3 got RPM from the EC3, so I didn't >> wire the tach input to the EM3. >> EM3 shows "NOP" until EC3 is turned on. Then shows "0". >> >> Only did a couple of runs. Fuel pumps started leaking badly around >> O-rings when I adjusted fuel pressure up to 37psi (engine not >> running). Pooled up in fuselage. Need to fix before I try running >> again. Gas is cheap, but not that cheap. I'll try copper washers on >> the pressure (output) side instead of the o-rings. >> >> Yes, I know, not pretty. Threaded the output fitting at an angle :( >> Too lazy to redo the output block. >> I also need to bend a new input tube without a kink. >> >> Max oil pressure only about 50 psi, hopefully because of low RPM. >> Forgot to turn on master switch so alternator didn't come on-line. >> Didn't log the run where that worked. >> >> Anyhow, can now say I've run the engine :) >> >> Finn >> >> On 5/22/2020 6:12 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote: >>> Great work Finn >>> Could I get the MPLABs version your using and any more info for the build. >>> I could build and program and confirm the burn but the EC3 ran like a dog. >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 22 May 2020, at 9:16 am, Finn Lassenfinn.lassen@verizon.net wrote: >>>> >>>> Well, after several hours of Murphy working overtime, I finally was able to get the wiring on my EC3 chip programming board right, chips programmed and EC3 installed. >>>> >>>> Flux capacitor fluxing, injectors clicking and spark plug firing. >>>> >>>> Time to get the wheels on and roll it out and start the engine. >>>> >>>> Oh, wait, guess I need to finish and install the prop :( >>>> >>>> Finn >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/21/2020 9:23 AM, Finn Lassenfinn.lassen@verizon.net wrote: >>>>> 1) Without prop any vibration will be from engine and PSRU and can inspect engine (leaks, etc.) with no fear of prop. >>>>> >>>>> 2) With prop less chance of over rev and some cooling air through rads and oil cooler. >>>>> >>>>> What do you think? >>>>> >>>>> Finn >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Homepage:http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>> Archive and UnSub:http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Homepage:http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> Archive and UnSub:http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> -- >>> Homepage:http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub:http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >> >> >> -- >> Homepage:http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub:http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> --------------D990DE232AEE681E65A78E3A Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Good point. From the log I think it was running lean. I'm temporarily using a narrow band O2 sensor. I think I'll hook a multimeter directly to it to bypass any errors from sensor to EC3 and EC3 to EM3 and its display. And I have to read the EC3 manual  :)

Those o-rings were a bad idea. If I'd had a mill and could have milled recesses to retain them from expanding out under pressure they might work. But an o-ring between two flat surfaces is probably bad design. If sucking air, won't I see that in the return line as bubbles?

Finn


On 5/24/2020 10:56 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote:
Congrats on 1st run. Doubt that the issue is no prop; they idle ok in the car without one. ;-)

Don't neglect the input side; those pumps will suck air even better than fuel.

Charlie

On 5/24/2020 9:01 PM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote:
Probably too early to give you that. (Used 8.10 and PICkit2).

Ran for the first time today (no prop).

Over speeding not an issue. Ran like a Harley :( 
No sure if because no prop or because not tuned yet or if something else wrong.

Zero RPM readout on EM3. I must have misunderstood the instructions or the program. I thought the EM3 got RPM from the EC3, so I didn't wire the tach input to the EM3.
EM3 shows "NOP" until EC3 is turned on. Then shows "0".

Only did a couple of runs. Fuel pumps started leaking badly around O-rings when I adjusted fuel pressure up to 37psi (engine not running). Pooled up in fuselage. Need to fix before I try running again. Gas is cheap, but not that cheap. I'll try copper washers on the pressure (output) side instead of the o-rings.

Yes, I know, not pretty. Threaded the output fitting at an angle :(
Too lazy to redo the output block.
I also need to bend a new input tube without a kink.

Max oil pressure only about 50 psi, hopefully because of low RPM.
Forgot to turn on master switch so alternator didn't come on-line.
Didn't log the run where that worked.

Anyhow, can now say I've run the engine :)

Finn

On 5/22/2020 6:12 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote:
Great work Finn
Could I get the MPLABs version your using and any more info for the build.
I could build and program and confirm the burn but the EC3 ran like a dog.

Steve




On 22 May 2020, at 9:16 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Well, after several hours of Murphy working overtime, I finally was able to get the wiring on my EC3 chip programming board right, chips programmed and EC3 installed.

Flux capacitor fluxing, injectors clicking and spark plug firing.

Time to get the wheels on and roll it out and start the engine.

Oh, wait, guess I need to finish and install the prop :(

Finn


On 5/21/2020 9:23 AM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote:

1) Without prop any vibration will be from engine and PSRU and can inspect engine (leaks, etc.) with no fear of prop.

2) With prop less chance of over rev and some cooling air through rads and oil cooler.

What do you think?

Finn



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