X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=LuPsNUVc c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=Wec96TlhXvBbTLcyALRmzA==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=Fee85h93u3AA:10 a=sTwFKg_x9MkA:10 a=d_30a814dLcA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=j0GXybIrAAAA:20 a=o1OHuDzbAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=3ajTZOHLXhYH6cFXdGsA:9 a=imlSHJ7-iVBtuNeL:21 a=kzU0X61uqV9gbaa0:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=epkYmqE-SohHhukUTkAA:9 a=3I0zxqGq9_5maVkC:21 a=Le8GAFJozDlxAaDt:21 a=P4W0rH5QUiRGOF2v:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=5YQ6H4ZxyGn-KoBYtt8s:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "lehanover lehanover@aol.com" Received: from sonic314-14.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.132.124] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 252962 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 18 May 2020 19:59:35 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.6.132.124; envelope-from=lehanover@aol.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1589846359; bh=rGp5B9P2Uec4gp1vsHZAteNE5NojCByy0He6//EugR4=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=CLWNTsLJp3XztPkfsRTmbSlUwyqyjDFxmAi0hv2r8HpUZaMZK9JJAT+1oHR8iwhYsMrAlwAArRTUi76QWe2gmJAMSxUpKPp0RNORbFnWGe6VURH3i7R35I2BXAnn5cNI2cI2OKOXo+xrKB5XictY0LP3cK4HuIfwXvt6vcVuH2cl8uCqWs/6IMoliwvBhZftHHgpTy2XjkkVg/vHFz/E+I4aLL4eqVELTUQuY8v/M7n6edv8Ds8S0GZamL6GQ5IzwRDGJOsn7i9zL2J5nsPMysnERLJhHo9FKntZdgAjfxRu/deklTmS5GVpF5FV8+fgRToHahgXny7/VjqG9rkEYg== X-YMail-OSG: ckr4NzgVM1nK8ZUMRd64q6AdDwmXBVlUbB9ioUuHhJzXJ6oTTN0Bnjc9DTpId6m 4j0lJ8eqFAjLArF5M26b4a3VEw5dSs_PssBZRQPNr1yGmC2aVgooDrV8CghS3QE2agV9SOF9WTRR dPJfiZW.ZYarNvpYrgAWADKWVbFv34Gxy7kk40Sy3NtpAmsgOtuBFhYdkYUkCziNj0uuVFRSXQBL 3g7VIUftAx0fuwaZlHQIfpChhcVaTexXYyVhpbYkfMA9DcEjdv07dBxvVc.DIcAIAVox_N85soyr w5YS24MTBZzTyMNj3RzqW2sDeCxsECruvVcl2Tk_s6ESXK8SHM50MxY3QgZGVdunFGF.hvmEEn0g 1pw1rIchQTFLS_xWcalm7Ugg0nhAyZQaOWMZgcihm6AtwamMn78OPqK91VQOlp5mMFE6W1nMZn_k pD.c7FrCG4vx020Upgzu2znlG.cNn12vyETGhsG4XxE3bJydfUlhklKS1LKZpzyjd4nQrFSbJjUl 6tsxK31at6etP.s2yxvJW21it.9z073R1oVEumuA3OyL4aYGkIZ86inN1W1aLUHBRcpuHEkrGHO1 6kGcWPYx94phqpxDuKApbAkoMhhLzXOnPMw3vopBfOQQEUaF4lR..CvgR76bawb.7k1tIj.N1TcW K_lgd0iroE_v.fWN_T8tjJUeHMfDpEeWb7qDSX7dH1N.DkMuAmMW_Em3r1V.Ud7Ns8sbYw4A2bof M_FRpTirSm0jlfsi6ewfSCYOUTCEkKi1l6J5xne7Q1QxfuvTIeZ1nwHPhXEE7bf325P81S2L.yfF BHUsd3q_I2UfyHNoIC_r66Ezt0GNJF1fcdHPJl1vRQPols4ShZfjqgqFX5oRctidcdEg..bfHaOq 8Pq_c.Yxx_IKbWd9LyPXuht5QxvAZjUsIlXxit4Q7Vga01lkNvfbAkBijZCGqcAjfFfIVWrWpOjC ZQ3.Du8Jgv_v1UD54.z2_ZNFh4oc_QFS3ak4EK3JYTdem3ztEalavrnu.w4nsR8DltqPELulHz.v r8fkDpF6W3c.DDNnDJcVnOJWgRYVoPjCJmFxaI.t1n60LWWzkzNqpJRKRKIAhTXYFQ5oZAiQgYcw vzo8W1Wd1GCx9NwZ4siSMrrZ6J53TV_Pj6hs8XWaxgr9d76CIfWO25LSQ5mmq.E0Y9dcKZJH7Os2 2uhhsk8uN.RBuOcsbZEQ4SPIq2nbWn1jLy20y6PM6Pol7hQAzjKKxMLsn71rMbmwkb0uUEbHBoW7 bGuocXH.TGFgvlfakuwPfhJdI9.we1KAKEmTL8y.peRQMIpY8zCinnYGGQKxlEyH42yEgBtqJXk3 lIh0ftstdeoHPqOgWMpygrQhfeBj8 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic314.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 18 May 2020 23:59:19 +0000 Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 23:59:17 +0000 (UTC) To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message-ID: <1104128213.840678.1589846357964@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: O2 sensor location MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_840677_1079158584.1589846357961" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.15960 aolloki Apache-HttpClient/4.5.7 (Java/1.8.0_144) Content-Length: 15797 ------=_Part_840677_1079158584.1589846357961 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable With EGTs close to 2,000 degrees, when 1650 would be a bit high in my book.= ......apex seals will be fighting over who gets to peel off the chrome firs= t.=C2=A0 The ideal mixture for best power in piston or rotary also produces (and is evidence of) close to the highest EGT. So a bit richer or a bit lea= ner than ideal is the order of the day. She was runnin best ever just before the piston melted. Mr Drummond had us mount the EGT probes 3" from the port face on the outsid= e of any bend with the probe tip in the center of the tube. And even then l= ooking for 1650 degrees or less. The rotary has an unburned hydrocarbon pro= blem from the cold combustion chamber. So, a bit more ignition advance can = get more of the burn completed before the port opens. 23 to 24 degrees on p= ump gas, maybe 24 to 27 degrees on avgas or racing gas. High octane fuel is= not required unless boosting is used.=C2=A0 This information might also be worth what you paid for it. Lynn E. Hanover In a message dated 5/18/2020 5:12:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net writes: Sorry; I should have included a message with that link. I suspect that with= a little digging, a model could be located that would allow modification t= o emulate what Steve's device does. Of course, if someone (Tracy) has a met= al lathe... Charlie | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 2:05 PM Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote: https://www.google.com/search?q=3Do2+sensor+bung+extension&oq=3Do2+sensor+b= ung+extension&aqs=3Dchrome..69i57j69i65.7765j0j7&sourceid=3Dchrome&ie=3DUTF= -8=C2=A0 | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 1:43 PM Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote: Thanks Steve. Hadn't seen that before. Work of art! But, dang, $89 (or $58=C2=A0 on eBay). Could buy a couple new O2 sensors at= that price. Finn On 5/18/2020 12:31 PM, Steven W. Boese SBoese@uwyo.edu wrote: Finn, FWIW, I've used the bung extender shown in the photos on my test stand with= out ill effects other than initial cost. Steve Boese From: Rotary motors in aircraft on behalf of = Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 7:55 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] O2 sensor location =E2=97=86 This message was sent from a non-UWYO address. Please exercise ca= ution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources. So I bought the Bosch LSU 4.9 wideband oxygen sensor and ALM-board. Specs for the LSU 4.9 says max operating temperature is 930 =C2=B0C (1700= =C2=B0F). I recall seeing 1950F EGT temps on my 13B with EGT probes 8" from the side of the engine. On the RV-4 Renesis,=C2=A0 before buying the wideband sensor, I welded the bung 12" from the closest port. (Stock manifold cut and 180=C2=B0 turn at exhaust port nearest flywheel, 2.5" pipe.) I expect the Renesis to have slightly lower EGT temps, but am worrying about damaging the O2 sensor. Charlie suggests mounting the sensor on a longer bung, moving the sensor out of the direct gas stream, but I feel that may reduce the accuracy of it= . My plan was to use the cheap narrowband O2 sensor initially and find the engine settings giving highest EGTs, then temporarily mount an EGT probe in the O2 bung hole, run the engine at those settings and see if EGT there was safe for the wideband sensor. But maybe I'm worrying about nothing. Do any of you have data on how rapidly the temps drop as a function of distance from exhaust port? Finn -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html | | Virus-free. www.avast.com | ------=_Part_840677_1079158584.1589846357961 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
With EGTs close to 2,000 degrees, when 1650 would be = a bit high in my book.......apex seals will be fighting over who gets to pe= el off the chrome first.  The ideal mixture for best power in piston o= r rotary also produces
(and is evidence of) close to the highest EGT. So a b= it richer or a bit leaner than ideal is the order of the day.

She was runnin best ever just before the piston melte= d.

Mr Drummond had us mount the EGT probes 3" from the p= ort face on the outside of any bend with the probe tip in the center of the= tube. And even then looking for 1650 degrees or less. The rotary has an un= burned hydrocarbon problem from the cold combustion chamber. So, a bit more= ignition advance can get more of the burn completed before the port opens.= 23 to 24 degrees on pump gas, maybe 24 to 27 degrees on avgas or racing ga= s. High octane fuel is not required unless boosting is used. 

This information might also be worth what you paid fo= r it.

Lynn E. Hanover

In a message dated 5/18/2020 5:12:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net writes:

Sorry= ; I should have included a message with that link. I suspect that with a li= ttle digging, a model could be located that would allow modification to emu= late what Steve's device does. Of course, if someone (Tracy) has a metal la= the...

<= /div>
Charl= ie

3D"" Virus-fr= ee. www.avast.com

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at = 2:05 PM Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

3D"" Virus-fr= ee. www.avast.com

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at = 1:43 PM Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Thanks Steve.

Hadn't seen that before.

Work of art!
<= br>But, dang, $89 (or $58  on eBay). Could buy a couple new O2 sensors= at that price.

Finn


On 5/18/2020 12:31 PM, Steven W. Boe= se SBoese@uwyo.edu wrote:
Finn,

FWIW, I've used the bung extender shown in the pho= tos on my test stand without ill effects other than initial cost.

Steve Boese

From: Rotary motors= in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> on b= ehalf of Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon= day, May 18, 2020 7:55 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft= <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subje= ct: [FlyRotary] O2 sensor location

=E2=97=86 This message was sent from a non-UWYO address. Please exerci= se caution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources= .


So I bought the Bosch LSU 4.9 wideband oxygen sensor and ALM-b= oard.

Specs for the LSU 4.9 says max operating temperature is 930 &d= eg;C (1700°F).

I recall seeing 1950F EGT temps on my 13B with EG= T probes 8" from the
side of the engine.

On the RV-4 Renesis,&nbs= p; before buying the wideband sensor, I welded the
bung 12" from the clo= sest port. (Stock manifold cut and 180° turn at
exhaust port nearest= flywheel, 2.5" pipe.)

I expect the Renesis to have slightly lower E= GT temps, but am worrying
about damaging the O2 sensor.

Charlie s= uggests mounting the sensor on a longer bung, moving the sensor
out of t= he direct gas stream, but I feel that may reduce the accuracy of it.
My plan was to use the cheap narrowband O2 sensor initially and find theengine settings giving highest EGTs, then temporarily mount an EGT probe<= br>in the O2 bung hole, run the engine at those settings and see if EGT
= there was safe for the wideband sensor.

But maybe I'm worrying about= nothing.

Do any of you have data on how rapidly the temps drop as a= function of
distance from exhaust port?

Finn



--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.=
lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html



3D"" Virus-fr= ee. www.avast.com
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