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Main worry according to Dave = is the sustained heat on the hot section wheel. It can be replaced with = a higher Inconel content wheel or possibly more nickel to take the heat. = Some recommend to do away with the actuator altogether and the = wastegate. Just run a boost relief valve?? Does this work? I am still flying a glastar sportsman with a renesis = fully ported etc and supposed to give 250 HP. I can assure you it = doesn=E2=80=99t More ;like 220 HP. My problem is not the high = mountains, just the trees that grow rapidly at the end of a paddock in = summer and the hot temps. If I can get 250 HP plus with the turbo in = these conditions, and mainly to cut down on the noise the typical rotary = makes. I am deaf enough already without dissolving what is left of my = hearing. So time will tell. Regards, =20 =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 10:00 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Eds engine removal at the Tracy Crook Repair = Facility =20 Hi Neil; Are you getting anything special done to it in the shop? Because if its just a rebuild, then that's a pretty easy job to do = yourself. And I don't believe that Mazda used the same turbo as I have = for long, so you may not have that damn special graphite seal that was = hard to find. If you're lucky then you can just use an easy to find T3 = kit. If you do need anything special then these guys seem to have pretty = much everything. www.gpopshop.com =20 I recall it was a few extra bucks to ship up here to Canada, so I = imagine you can double that to get it down under. But after wasting my = time with a generic kit they did get me the one I needed. Porting the waste-gate was also pretty easy. I would also recommend replacing the actuator. When mine failed it was = as I was taking off and it was very impressive performance. If I recall = correctly I think I was around 16psi when I caught it. Fun and I wish I = could reliably do that all the time without worry about detonation. This is the actuator that I bought https://www.ebay.com/itm/262896884959 =20 I forget, but what plane are you building again. And what is your = planned flight profile? =20 On Mon., May 4, 2020, 15:32 12348ung@gmail.com = , > wrote: Thanks Todd, I already have the info from Dave, which is similar to = yours. I have the offer of the stock intercooler from a bloke here, so = will get it from him as it just fits with little mods to the cowl. I = have sent the stock turbo to a shop in OZ to get it checked, but they to = date have done nothing that I know of. Could be the virus as it has = apparently affected the phones as well with no reply!! Will advise = progress when it eventually happens, Neil. =20 =20 =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft >=20 Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 5:20 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Eds engine removal at the Tracy Crook Repair = Facility =20 Hi Neil; First I gotta apologize as I know you sent me a message early last = winter that I read and meant to get back to, but got too busy and forgot = about it. I started playing beer league hockey again after a few years = off, with games 3 nights a week, along with my sons hockey and = back-country alpine skiing every chance I get and well I'm sorry but I = just kinda forgot about you. Sorry mate. This damn virus cut our season short just before the play-offs which = is a shame as we had a strong team, but considering how others are = suffering, that's not much to complain about. And I'm still working as = much as ever since our pulp is used in medical supplies as well as = toilet paper, so fortunate on that front as well (see pic). Last week my = son & I even climbed a mountain and had a fantastic ski down, so yeah = we're fortunate up here as you are way down there. But last month I pulled the wings off my plane to put it here in the = shop at home just in-case things took a drastic turn for the worse, I = figure I could do some upgrades if I got stuck at home. So as is the = life of an experimenter, I seem to have traded sleep for the opportunity = to implement my latest half-baked ideas. Things are looking good and I'm = so far on schedule to return it to the airport at the beginning of June. = I'll make a few posts soon showing my work for peer review. Anyways, sorry for the long-winded prelude, but on to your = questions.... My turbo is simply a stock Mazda turbo that I ported the wastegate = myself. I believe it came off of a 1990 RX-7, but I'm not sure. I got it = used from RX7 Specialties in Calgary.=20 The turbo model is an Hitachi 18S-2S. I rebuilt it after I started to = loose a lot of oil through the worn bearings. The rebuild kit was only = available from G-Pop Shop. The bearings are actually exactly the same as = available in a $15 kit that fits almost all turbochargers, but it's that = damn seal that's hard to find. The wastegate was pathetically small so I = ported it out to the maximum diameter that could be covered with the = stock flapper gate, which more than doubled the area. As well, I also = smoothed and flared the inlet to this port. As a result, it easily = controls the boost levels. The stock turbo was known for boost creep (or = so I've read) I replaced the wastegate actuator with a piston type = actuator after the diaphragm failed on the stock actuator. I use a 6psi = spring, so under normal use that is the most boost that I use. I also = have a TurboSmart electronic boost controller, so at the push of a = button, I can have 9psi or 12psi (you know when you are flying up a = blind mountain valley and realize you've really screwed up and need a = little extra power to clear that ridge, never happened yet, don't ever = plan for it to happen, but I'm glad I've got it). The set-points are = user programmable. A/R ratio, no idea. Whatever it came with, but I'm certain it is not = optimum for the use that I'm using it for. The stock turbo is not really = ideal for aircraft use at all and many aftermarket turbos would work = better except installation is unfriendly. The greatest weakness of an = aftermarket turbo IMO is the oil return which would require a scavenger = pump.. no thanks. The stock turbo is a compact installation with a = no-issue gravity oil return. Now this works for me, but I'm really not using continuous boost to go = fast. I use it for short duration for take-off and climb. If you are = looking for continuous duty use for high speed cruise, then you need to = talk to Dave Leonard as he used a stock turbo as well, but first I think = his is a later model year that was regarded as better, and second, he = sent it off to a company that ported it as I did, but also changed out = the turbine and compressor wheel to something suited to his desired use. = Most of that info is in the archives, but if Dave is listening, maybe = he'll chime in. Intercooler.... I was just using a stock intercooler that I got from = RX Specialites, but while I manged to squeeze it all in there, I always = doubted it's effectiveness and then confirmed it with a the extra EM2 = air temp sensors. It was interfering with my new curved rad placement, = so I just removed it all and am in the midst of fiberglassing the cowl = which will eliminate the intercooler in/out. If it later turns out that = I need one then I'm going to go a different route and have some ideas, = but right now I'm happy to loose that weight. EGT. When I'm running around 14.5:1 air/fuel I usually see around 870 = on each rotor as measured in the turbo manifold with another a few = inches later at the turbine inlet is always about 50 degrees cooler = which has been confirmed by switching probes around. Turbine outlet is = measure about 18" downstream and is usually around 450. Two years ago I = began working on a prototype data-logger, but after a few moderately = successful tests I never did take it to the next level and work out the = bugs to make it a permanent install. I wish I had so that I could give = you better data, as I'm just going by memory at this point. One of your questions from last fall was about my muffler. I was = using an AeroExhaust and I got many comments around the airport about = how quiet my plane was. Cockpit noise was very low, but I'm far less = concerned about cockpit noise than noise on the ground. I always wonder = why pilots want to put a muffler on their head instead of the engine. = But then last summer I pulled the muffler off for another reason = (another long story) and just using a cell phone app (not very accurate = I know), I was surprised to measure barley 5db increase in the cockpit. = It seems that the turbo is doing a far better job at muffling than I'd = expected. One of old friends lives below the departure end of one of the = runways, so I asked him and he says it's still quieter than the other = planes that fly out of there. So I've bought an actual decibel meter and = this summer I'll get him to make some actual measurements from the = ground and I'll get some from the cockpit. I'll also get some from a few = other planes for comparison. Anyways, last night was a 5am finish on a big fiberglassing job with = a 9am wake up call to go to work for a break-in repair and it's after = midnight now with a 0630 start tomorrow, so I'm going to sign off now to = grab a little sleep. I hope this helps. Have a good day. Todd Bartrim =20 =20 On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 3:51 PM 12348ung@gmail.com = > wrote: Todd, What turbo did you fit to your rotary? Do you recall = the size of the intercooler, and just what boost are you running at and = do you know what EGFT you are getting? Just heading down that path = now, so too lazy to start from scratch, Neil. =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft >=20 Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2020 5:29 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Eds engine removal at the Tracy Crook Repair = Facility =20 Good to hear from you Ed; I'm starting to feel old as I clearly remember your initial report on = this long past incident! But your sharing of this and other stories has = had a positive impact on me. In the 3 times that I've rebuilt a rotary = engine since your report I always recall this story in my mind and pay = special attention as I'm installing the oil pump gear and have noticed = how easy it is to accidentally push that key out of place. Another change I've made due to your experiences is my brake lines. = After your incident someone on this list suggested using a grease gun = hose for the final loop to the wheel. So this is what I've been using = without issue since then. I'm currently doing an annual inspection that = has expanded to doing various system upgrades and I've got some shiney = new red hoses that were given to me by an Oiler at work. I'm going to = replace the old ones as the outer rubber layer has some unsightly = surface cracks from the weather and this new style won't do that. The list has been too quite as of late so I've been meaning to share = some of my updates to get the conversations going again. But I'm off to the shop right now to play with expanding foam as I = build a new set of intake ducts to match up to my new curved radiators = taken from a Kawasaki Ninja as suggested by another list member. =20 Todd RV9 13Bturbo ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01D622F5.75950280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Todd,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thanks again for the info.=C2=A0 Main = worry according to Dave is the sustained heat on the hot section = wheel.=C2=A0 It can be replaced with a higher Inconel content wheel or = possibly more nickel to take the heat.=C2=A0 Some recommend to do away = with the actuator altogether and the wastegate. Just run a boost relief = valve??=C2=A0 Does this work?

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I am still flying a glastar sportsman = with a renesis fully ported etc and supposed to give 250 HP.=C2=A0 I can = assure you it doesn=E2=80=99t=C2=A0 More ;like 220 HP.=C2=A0 My problem = is not the high mountains, just the trees that grow rapidly at the end = of a paddock in summer and the hot temps.=C2=A0 If I can get 250 HP plus = with the turbo in these conditions, and mainly to cut down on the noise = the typical rotary makes.=C2=A0 I am deaf enough already without = dissolving what is left of my hearing.

So time will = tell.

Regards,=C2=A0=C2=A0

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, = 2020 10:00 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Eds engine removal at the Tracy Crook Repair = Facility

 

Hi = Neil;

  Are you getting = anything special done to it in the shop?

Because if its just a rebuild, then that's a pretty = easy job to do yourself. And I don't believe that Mazda used the same = turbo as I have for long, so you may not have that damn special graphite = seal that was hard to find. If you're lucky then you can just use an = easy to find T3 kit.

  If you do need anything special then these guys = seem to have pretty much everything.

www.gpopshop.com

I recall it was a few extra bucks to ship up = here to Canada, so I imagine you can double that to get it down under. = But after wasting my time with a generic kit they did get me the one I = needed.

  Porting the = waste-gate was also pretty easy.

  I would also recommend replacing the actuator. = When mine failed it was as I was taking off and it was very impressive = performance. If I recall correctly I think I was around 16psi when I = caught it. Fun and I wish I could reliably do that all the time without = worry about detonation.

This is the actuator that I = bought

 

I = forget, but what plane are you building again. And what is your planned = flight profile?

 

Thanks Todd,  I already have the info from  Dave, = which is similar to yours.  I have the offer of the stock = intercooler from a bloke here, so will get it from him as it just fits = with little mods to the cowl.  I have sent the stock turbo to a = shop in OZ to get it checked, but they to date have done nothing that I = know of.  Could be the virus as it has apparently affected the = phones as well with no reply!!  Will advise progress when it = eventually happens,

Neil.

 

          =    

 

From:= Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: = Monday, May 4, 2020 5:20 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Eds engine removal at the Tracy Crook Repair = Facility

 <= /o:p>

Hi = Neil;

  = First I gotta apologize as I know you sent me a message early = last winter that I read and meant to get back to, but got too busy and = forgot about it. I started playing beer league hockey again after a few = years off, with games 3 nights a week, along with my sons hockey and = back-country alpine skiing every chance I get and well I'm sorry but I = just kinda forgot about you. Sorry mate.

  =  This damn virus cut our season short just before the play-offs = which is a shame as we had a strong team, but considering how others are = suffering, that's not much to complain about. And I'm still working as = much as ever since our pulp is used in medical supplies as well as = toilet paper, so fortunate on that front as well (see pic). Last week my = son & I even climbed a mountain and had a fantastic ski down, so = yeah we're fortunate up here as you are way down = there.

  =  But last month I pulled the wings off my plane to put it here in = the shop at home just in-case things took a drastic turn for the worse, = I figure I could do some upgrades if I got stuck at home. So as is the = life of an experimenter, I seem to have traded sleep for the = opportunity to implement my latest half-baked ideas. Things are = looking good and I'm so far on schedule to return it to the airport at = the beginning of June. I'll make a few posts soon showing my work for = peer review.

  = Anyways, sorry for the long-winded prelude, but on to your = questions....

My turbo is = simply a stock Mazda turbo that I ported the wastegate myself. I believe = it came off of a 1990 RX-7, but I'm not sure. I got it used from RX7 = Specialties in Calgary. 

The turbo = model is an Hitachi 18S-2S. I rebuilt it after I started to loose a = lot of oil through the worn bearings. The rebuild kit was only = available from G-Pop Shop. The bearings are actually exactly the = same as available in a $15 kit that fits almost all turbochargers, but = it's that damn seal that's hard to find. The wastegate was = pathetically small so I ported it out to the maximum diameter that could = be covered with the stock flapper gate, which more than doubled the = area. As well, I also smoothed and flared the inlet to this port. As a = result, it easily controls the boost levels. The stock turbo was known = for boost creep (or so I've read) I replaced the wastegate actuator with = a piston type actuator after the diaphragm failed on the = stock  actuator. I use a 6psi spring, so under normal use that is = the most boost that I use. I also have a TurboSmart electronic boost = controller, so at the push of a button, I can have 9psi or 12psi (you = know when you are flying up a blind mountain valley and = realize you've really screwed up and need a little extra power to = clear that ridge, never happened yet, don't ever plan for it to happen, = but I'm glad I've got it). The set-points are user = programmable.

A/R ratio, = no idea. Whatever it came with, but I'm certain it is not optimum for = the use that I'm using it for. The stock turbo is not really ideal for = aircraft use at all and many aftermarket turbos would work better except = installation is unfriendly. The greatest weakness of an aftermarket = turbo IMO is the oil return which would require a scavenger pump.. no = thanks. The stock turbo is a compact installation with a no-issue = gravity oil return.

Now this = works for me, but I'm really not using continuous boost to go fast. = I use it for short duration for take-off and climb. If you are looking = for continuous duty use for high speed cruise, then you need to = talk to Dave Leonard as he used a stock turbo as well, but first I = think his is a later model year that was regarded as better, and second, = he sent it off to a company that ported it as I did, but also changed = out the turbine and compressor wheel to something suited to his desired = use. Most of that info is in the archives, but if Dave is listening, = maybe he'll chime in.

  =  Intercooler.... I was just using a stock intercooler that I got = from RX Specialites, but while I manged to squeeze it all in there, = I always doubted it's effectiveness and then confirmed it with a the = extra EM2 air temp sensors. It was interfering with my new curved = rad placement, so I just removed it all and am in the midst of = fiberglassing the cowl which will eliminate the intercooler in/out. If = it later turns out that I need one then I'm going to go a different = route and have some ideas, but right now I'm happy to loose that = weight.

  =  EGT. When I'm running around 14.5:1 air/fuel I usually see around = 870 on each rotor as measured in the turbo manifold with another a few = inches later at the turbine inlet is always about 50 degrees cooler = which has been confirmed by switching probes around. Turbine outlet is = measure about 18" downstream and is usually around 450. = Two years ago I began working on a prototype data-logger, but after = a few moderately successful tests I never did take it to the next level = and work out the bugs to make it a permanent install. I wish I had = so that I could give you better data, as I'm just going by memory at = this point.

  =  One of your questions from last fall was about my muffler. I was = using an AeroExhaust and I got many comments around the airport about = how quiet my plane was. Cockpit noise was very low, but I'm far less = concerned about cockpit noise than noise on the ground. I always wonder = why pilots want to put a muffler on their head instead of the engine. = But then last summer I pulled the muffler off for another reason = (another long story) and just using a cell phone app (not very accurate = I know), I was surprised to measure barley 5db increase in the cockpit. = It seems that the turbo is doing a far better job at muffling than I'd = expected. One of old friends lives below the departure end of one of the = runways, so I asked him and he says it's still quieter than the other = planes that fly out of there. So I've bought an actual decibel meter and = this summer I'll get him to make some actual measurements from the = ground and I'll get some from the cockpit. I'll also get some from = a few other planes for comparison.

  =  Anyways, last night was a 5am finish on a big fiberglassing job = with a 9am wake up call to go to work for a break-in repair and it's = after midnight now with a 0630 start tomorrow, so I'm going to sign off = now to grab a little sleep.

 I = hope this helps. Have a good day.


Todd = Bartrim

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

On Sun, May = 3, 2020 at 3:51 PM 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

Todd,

          =       What turbo did you fit to your = rotary?   Do you recall the size of the intercooler, and just = what boost are you running at and do you know what EGFT you are = getting?   Just heading down that path now, so too lazy to = start from scratch,

Neil.

 

From:= Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: = Sunday, May 3, 2020 5:29 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Eds engine removal at the Tracy Crook Repair = Facility

 <= /o:p>

Good to hear = from you Ed;

  =  I'm starting to feel old as I clearly remember your initial report = on this long past incident! But your sharing of this and other stories = has had a positive impact on me. In the 3 times that I've rebuilt a = rotary engine since your report I always recall this story in my mind = and pay special attention as I'm installing the oil pump gear and have = noticed how easy it is to accidentally push that key out of = place.

  =  Another change I've made due to your experiences is my brake = lines. After your incident someone on this list suggested using a grease = gun hose for the final loop to the wheel. So this is what I've been = using without issue since then. I'm currently doing an annual inspection = that has expanded to doing various system upgrades and I've got some = shiney new red hoses that were given to me by an Oiler at work. I'm = going to replace the old ones as the outer rubber layer has some = unsightly surface cracks from the weather and this new style won't do = that.

  =  The list has been too quite as of late so I've been meaning to = share some of my updates to get the conversations going = again.

  =  But I'm off to the shop right now to play with expanding foam as I = build a new set of intake ducts to match up to my new curved radiators = taken from a Kawasaki Ninja as suggested by another list = member.

 

Todd=

RV9 = 13Bturbo

<= /blockquote>
------=_NextPart_000_0034_01D622F5.75950280--