X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=H+OlPNQi c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=BMg5uwImetesxz4vmnqzIg==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=Fee85h93u3AA:10 a=MeAgGD-zjQ4A:10 a=jAoASmkXln0A:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=eRLigfuSAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=nCJDlTuxeXMdMbhzDUAA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=xPyZ54XvAAAA:8 a=CHh9SN4vKZH5R1rj:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=BfhXYjFvZD4iae-mNffo:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 a=LQCduUwlY3eUW_MavTj7:22 a=pHzHmUro8NiASowvMSCR:22 a=nt3jZW36AmriUCFCBwmW:22 From: "lehanover lehanover@aol.com" Received: from sonic302-3.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.135.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 13195118 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 18:30:03 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.6.135.42; envelope-from=lehanover@aol.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1574206186; bh=z5fy23Q1RnmYPf1SiLRMo/pVkOEeyffRjCszhp0FY2Q=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:From:Subject; b=JeNbysyf+1vEjmS22sBgXwRSnfObAOFJer5NCpTReqa14ZWq8DDm6sqHvBnM7ifkfmo86PLay0BPVlQMEC7BRMG8nD39eZgK6f8Ve8zgEanQIrmNNBeaAmEGWkKLjaZUdQVNuUKfwVRmBeyfX9Z78/2r2muqy84Z9GkTD0PK8fyQdMA/HooiaYQr6Jy41lWgtN759tmXjlChitklNGT/oFy6SH2ywEgxvCjyCanWMEVIBGaCgOympaMX7TKW2zz7kwo7j1vc4LNWVgvZwZaOuqiKDjf7PQVtcJAwUMDkiz347d0k+XrPMqsPEe/3KkXW4FfAX4Kdn3GFCBnvTt+ZWw== X-YMail-OSG: LD.p37AVM1lIHsYyxzVN8ZBAPXnJdVe49YmNkniWaHpf.gjlOiOv81QI3LZgyVZ E2gEqVVak6PtWDltHtTL2rmwfr9E7ND0MfDMVaXcgSv3f5WQm1AlTtbiTv7FvdbjcZWiEN8re08c xNK9eLjR.YXXh6m0.wYhmNo7mZUXUyXEjrI3r54oNLJrEJ_16yudrFHy0IDV1n6zO_G4S61F9WeO Ix7bcA5B9_jvFBp8PjerxD_KleGARmHcp8PJIE5WLEmvvhA.4_bel8ceYUp6yCqcP.0ZNHqPH0ht yDbXjf0djXXegL0Z0qzGVgr0TUZuxFM3HspoJ0uzD_qio6pgArguYBrhNoEQ_73Vp14FHi2fVMH9 2DFt5g8LDPz6eP3KWjIv9scK1CM8C.MdAv4ZZ2NyDthPQuaMytOEsWZ5YB1AWxb5GoypCP3GRcWa 3W6RlEvZ2x1wzC6QgJZtwA5yqBPT8DPPoduHDau.vl.0pU4qH5vbNO0bquCOmdW.lrQn20x3RrDr pqee_qXy610jj65VfckaLhL1z_GUpS4Rk6BRCTnw.SH.AzU08ETRSDxT1yO8Y8H4kSf9JZJsoRdI 9p_bc8spViScfvzVd6oGZcb6S6k9mCYWw_BMlAprYItBbm0XmpKqsFDp3UlSLhYN3DCm4Oc7h2ay Jlberxiv2TwFcTEmulWaiz9eqBGF4.iRa_L9ziEjy0HeMrm1oy6c_gWQ90fH_V_E3ZvNKinOdEmk mg01C.16IBFEM49QApKBXuGhK8dYbYJQFhS7rJS96dyECNffRZOF0_3R.9m9_x68c5p8tqz9Qfgs wsd9Lp0mbpRx9vNSmTCRRN2tn3AfKPxNKfX6aJqbZvGPWSsvLsym8Yb.XoP7AlWt9lPRrQ0ZPWFI Zm_TwxB_Xxev59K05WsKB2OhXLIewsAKXuwyNKd9k5jfwtiGROaHP7GAuTuxKx4CgWXFQoutTRV6 PkQ59aIgbQ93i8p4hbXDE.CSkA2V9mom4Nen2p249LB6Jy0Og9P5XVXQ_1MP0i7J4g5BXGpj7mOw uwqeE4e..6u6oUqAEQ7PCT.DuzSRb8468fvsx_EneiFGv6EOrcH4i69ivGXmq5MtRaE78V6Y0j6z NXak5DKt0jKhhUrekuhH0N.TnyS7IQDPGkqvpKqUWvEgdf1uHc3JnzRtwc63Q2LAOzicVJfPaM.x tiMmWa.LLsL2AcpdhEr0Rfj_alO99771qD2GIs8fzFxKK4ESBYL01OJLFfHP_X3jqH9uSAuyXMZc ugkDdt8zTk9l7Q1ZHFt5JjhMTsxDByIFf7q9G_nxwn64wS4fzNfCF6XTPdNGRah3LFpQdpipSo8S 3BNI- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic302.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 19 Nov 2019 23:29:46 +0000 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 23:29:43 +0000 (UTC) To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message-ID: <629443559.1742640.1574206183507@mail.yahoo.com> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mufflers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1742639_395526088.1574206183505" References: <629443559.1742640.1574206183507.ref@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.14728 aolloki Apache-HttpClient/4.5.7 (Java/1.8.0_144) Content-Length: 10634 ------=_Part_1742639_395526088.1574206183505 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a design that I think will be as close as any for muffling. I would= keep the outlet to the rear end.Years ago we took a new racer to Sebring f= or a first outing. The muffler was one of those big suit case looking thing= s. It did work but the muffler was inside the car because of ground clearan= ce. It overheated the driver. So as we went through the weekend were wrappe= d house insulation around that muffler. Then the muffler began swelling up = and muffling less. Also the engine was popping about 3/4 of the straightawa= y. Another Rotary racer took pity on us beginners and demoed how our float = bowl was totally empty by half track.=C2=A0 The needle seat was then meteri= ng the fuel and that was not nearly enough.We changed our fuel pumps to ser= ies connection. That had us out of the tuning problem but still too close t= o best power. The muffler swelled up so as to look like a giant pillow. The= insulation melted. The internal pieces of muffler piled up in front of the muffler outlet and the driver pitted wi= th about 20 HP to race on. We retired to Naples Florida. Found a man with a= drill press. Bought=C2=A0 4" steel tube at NAPA and a house jack at Lowes.= I built a muffler similar to this drawing. But straight through like a gla= ss pack. Worked great. The next day we went to the false grid with high hop= es. The car was stuck in first gear. We didn't start after towing to Florid= a from Ohio. I now live in Florida in winter. So we learned a lot. The muff= ler outlet must be big enough to allow any interior piece to fly off into s= pace should it come loose.=C2=A0 Only stainless no carbon steel. Bigger hol= es near the front of the perforated=C2=A0 tub. this allows supersonic high = pressure gas to get outside the tube and reenter through the smaller holes = and slow the shock wave a bit. This is similar to the Mazda race muffler, b= ut that thing is short and fat. Designed to fit under the rear bumper of an= RX-2 or RX-3. That has an empty chamber in front of a perf tube style muff= ler, but there is no connection through that chamber. So, only sub sonic ga= s needs be dealt with. Those mufflers failed by being beat to death and fal= ling off of the tail pipe. Another note: the most disagreeable part of the = noise is in the center of the flow. I put a round piece of 1/4 steel in the= center of a 4" tube and it did help. We had a 4" 90 degree tail piece. We = could turn left or right. So as to aim it away from the sound equipment at = each track. The Generation II (wedge shaped body) had a insert in the liner= that helped very much on sound. Find one and see if it can be installed in= the later housing.=C2=A0 Lynn E. Hanover In a message dated 11/19/2019 10:36:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@= lancaironline.net writes: Here is the picture from Andrew's email.=C2=A0 My exhaust is stupid loud. I've tried a few things which didn't work. Getti= ng noise complaints around the airport while testing. Just reading this Gary Schwarz's link, looks promising. Andrew, did you fit= yours inside the cowl? I'm surprised 5mm endplates are holding up. - Matt Boiteau On 2019-11-19 12:57:36 AM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au wrote: Kelly, I would if I had some, really did not expect it to work as I deviate= d from the design a bit. Will be back at airport on weekend to take photo, = too late for construction photo. But nothing to it. I read about the idea by Gary Schwarz in this thread, post #7 , post #58 fo= r his testing and post #142 sums up his findings.Someone on here may know h= im as he was doing it for a rotary. Mine is much shorter than his drawing b= elow due to space constraints but the theory works.edit: Ahh!!! deleted his= picture as too big to post. it is in his post #7 mentioned above though.An= drew -- Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/L= ist.html ------=_Part_1742639_395526088.1574206183505 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is a design that I think will be as close as any= for muffling. I would keep the outlet to the rear end.
Years ago we took a new racer to Sebring for a first = outing. The muffler was one of those big suit case looking things. It did w= ork but the muffler was inside the car because of ground clearance. It over= heated the driver. So as we went through the weekend were wrapped house ins= ulation around that muffler. Then the muffler began swelling up and mufflin= g less. Also the engine was popping about 3/4 of the straightaway. Another = Rotary racer took pity on us beginners and demoed how our float bowl was to= tally empty by half track.  The needle seat was then metering the fuel= and that was not nearly enough.
We changed our fuel pumps to series connection. That = had us out of the tuning problem but still too close to best power. The muf= fler swelled up so as to look like a giant pillow. The insulation melted. T= he internal pieces
of muffler piled up in front of the muffler outlet an= d the driver pitted with about 20 HP to race on. We retired to Naples Flori= da. Found a man with a drill press. Bought  4" steel tube at NAPA and = a house jack at Lowes. I built a muffler similar to this drawing. But strai= ght through like a glass pack. Worked great. The next day we went to the fa= lse grid with high hopes. The car was stuck in first gear. We didn't start = after towing to Florida from Ohio. I now live in Florida in winter. So we l= earned a lot. The muffler outlet must be big enough to allow any interior p= iece to fly off into space should it come loose.  Only stainless no ca= rbon steel. Bigger holes near the front of the perforated  tub. this a= llows supersonic high pressure gas to get outside the tube and reenter thro= ugh the smaller holes and slow the shock wave a bit. This is similar to the= Mazda race muffler, but that thing is short and fat. Designed to fit under= the rear bumper of an RX-2 or RX-3. That has an empty chamber in front of = a perf tube style muffler, but there is no connection through that chamber.= So, only sub sonic gas needs be dealt with. Those mufflers failed by being= beat to death and falling off of the tail pipe. Another note: the most dis= agreeable part of the noise is in the center of the flow. I put a round pie= ce of 1/4 steel in the center of a 4" tube and it did help. We had a 4" 90 = degree tail piece. We could turn left or right. So as to aim it away from t= he sound equipment at each track. The Generation II (wedge shaped body) had= a insert in the liner that helped very much on sound. Find one and see if = it can be installed in the later housing. 

Lynn E. Hanover

In a message dated 11/19/2019 10:36:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@= lancaironline.net writes:

Here is the picture from Andrew's email= . 

My exhaust is stupid loud. I've tried a few things which didn't work. = Getting noise complaints around the airport while testing.

Just reading this Gary Schwarz's link, looks promising. Andrew, did yo= u fit yours inside the cowl? I'm surprised 5mm endplates are holding up.

- Matt Boiteau

On 2019-11-19 12:57:36 AM, A= ndrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wro= te:


Kelly, I would if I had some, really did not expect it to work as I de= viated from the design a bit. Will be back at airport on weekend to take ph= oto, too late for construction photo. But nothing to it.

I read about the idea by Gary Schwarz in this thread, post #7 , post #58 for his testing = and post #142 sums up his findings.
Someone on here may know him as he was doing it for a rotary. Mine is = much shorter than his drawing below due to space constraints but the theory= works.
edit: Ahh!!! deleted his picture as too big to post. it is in his post= #7 mentioned above though.
Andrew

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