From: "Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Received-SPF: pass
 receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.217.46; envelope-from=mattboiteau@gmail.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="----=_NextPart_1594689.033570766902"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 20:57:00 -0500
Message-ID: <cd316659-ace3-429d-8a9f-ce239672adde@getmailbird.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Update on Glasair Cooling in Phase #1
To: "David COOK hoursaway1@comcast.net" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-13137257@logan.com>
References: <list-13137257@logan.com>
User-Agent: Mailbird/2.5.43.0

------=_NextPart_1594689.033570766902
Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

237F oil is hot with that being your inlet temperature. Like you said, need=
 to increase the inlet duct size to 4". I tried getting away with a 2.5" in=
let (even 3D printed molds to get the right bell shapes, etc), but quickly =
found out that didn't work and went with 4".=C2=A0


My oil rad is only ~200sq" though compared to your ~250sq". I'll need to up=
grade when summer comes back, but so far on climb I'll get 215F inlet / 235=
F oil pan, and leveling off at 2000rpm prop will drop down to 190F inlet / =
205F oil pan. Have custom oil pan that holds gallons.

- Matt Boiteau
On 2019-11-03 4:53:20 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@=
lancaironline.net> wrote:
Sorry Matt, I just realised I hadn=E2=80=99t mentioned the actual oil temps.
Highest in climb were 114C (237F) settling back to 110C this is 10C higher =
than previous flight?? OAT was up 4C ~7F
I would have expected a symbiotic relationship between oil and water temps.=
 Lower coolant yielding lower oil temps.
This is troubling me, Prior to this flight I noticed oil level down on the =
stick. Its always been very consistently full with no signs of leaks etc. (=
Standard Renesis pan)
It=E2=80=99s running Mobile 1 and measuring the oil entering the engine aft=
er cooler and filter.

Steve

> On 3 Nov 2019, at 11:35 pm, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Coolant looks great. Are you running a t-stat?
> What are the oil temps when you say "high"? Synthetic? Weight? Oil pan or=
 inlet temp location?
>
> This is my opinion, with synthetic 20W50 at oil pain temps, I'd be okay d=
uring the climb with 240F and hopefully after some air speed it drops down =
under 220F.
>
> I do agree you might have to open up to 100mm (4 inch) for oil cooler.
>
> - Matt Boiteau
>> On 2019-11-03 8:31:47 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Hi there people
>>
>> Over the past month I have updated the cooling system of the Glasair Sup=
er II RG in order to continue our phase 1 testing.
>>
>> The previous setup had 540in3 two pass behind the ~20in2 unmodified righ=
t cheek inlet.
>> We hadn=E2=80=99t included the left cheek as it was so difficult to get =
the air across to the right hand side diffuser.
>> The Oil is 250in3 behind a 8in2 under spinner inlet.
>> Initial testing was marginal with OAT below 20C (68F)
>> So having established that cooling was rather marginal above 68F I went =
for the planned upgrade path which included
>> installing a secondary bike radiator of 130in3 plumbed into the heater c=
ircuit behind the ~15in2 left cheek inlet.
>> The diffuser was designed to hopefully be more efficient in a climb conf=
iguration.
>> So the total radiators frontal area has been increased by 50% while the =
air in has increased 75%.
>> The unknown is that being in the heater circuit we don't know the total =
flow through the secondary rad compared with the primary rad.
>>
>> Testing on the ground yield an approx 15-20C drop in coolant after 30min=
s of 1800rpm idle.
>>
>> Flight Testing Results the next day: OAT 21C (70F)
>> Coolant Temps max=E2=80=99d on climb at 93C (200F) down 15C on highest F=
light 3 climb temp with a 4C higher OAT.
>> Coolant Temps dropped to 83C (181F) as speed got to 147 KIAS (Cruise is =
published as 192 KIAS but we haven=E2=80=99t expanded the envelope to date)
>> I=E2=80=99m very pleased with this result.
>>
>> Oil Temps are high. I would much prefer them below 80C (176F)
>> I=E2=80=99ll be interested to see what oil temp does as speed rises, but=
 my hunch is it needs more air (increase air to oil cooler from a diameter =
of 77mm to 100mm)
>>
>> Slow Speed Tests:
>> Vs Clean Stall is at 67 KIAS row 2011 (Glasair claims 70 Knots at Gross)
>> Vso Full Flap Stall is at 57 KIAS row 2062 & 2083 (Glasair claims 59 Kno=
ts at Gross)
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Steve Izett
>> Perth Western Australia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List=
.html


--
Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.ht=
ml

------=_NextPart_1594689.033570766902
Content-Type: text/html;
 charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<body><div id=3D"__MailbirdStyleContent" style=3D"font-size: 10pt;font-fami=
ly: Arial;color: #000000">
                                        237F oil is hot with that being you=
r inlet temperature. Like you said, need to increase the inlet duct size to=
 4". I tried getting away with a 2.5" inlet (even 3D printed molds to get t=
he right bell shapes, etc), but quickly found out that didn't work and went=
 with 4".&nbsp;<br><br><div>My oil rad is only ~200sq" though compared to y=
our ~250sq". I'll need to upgrade when summer comes back, but so far on cli=
mb I'll get 215F inlet / 235F oil pan, and leveling off at 2000rpm prop wil=
l drop down to 190F inlet / 205F oil pan. Have custom oil pan that holds ga=
llons.</div><div><br></div><div class=3D"mb_sig">- Matt Boiteau</div><block=
quote class=3D"history_container" type=3D"cite" style=3D"border-left-style:=
solid;border-width:1px; margin-top:20px; margin-left:0px;padding-left:10px;=
">
                        <p style=3D"color: #AAAAAA; margin-top: 10px;">On 2=
019-11-03 4:53:20 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com &lt;flyrotary@l=
ancaironline.net&gt; wrote:</p><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sa=
ns-serif">Sorry Matt, I just realised I hadn=E2=80=99t mentioned the actual=
 oil temps.=0D<br>Highest in climb were 114C (237F) settling back to 110C t=
his is 10C higher than previous flight?? OAT was up 4C ~7F=0D<br>I would ha=
ve expected a symbiotic relationship between oil and water temps. Lower coo=
lant yielding lower oil temps.=0D<br>This is troubling me, Prior to this fl=
ight I noticed oil level down on the stick. Its always been very consistent=
ly full  with no signs of leaks etc. (Standard Renesis pan)=0D<br>It=E2=80=
=99s running Mobile 1 and measuring the oil entering the engine after coole=
r and filter.=0D<br>=0D<br>Steve=0D<br>=0D<br>> On 3 Nov 2019, at 11:35 pm,=
 Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:=0D=
<br>> =0D<br>> Coolant looks great. Are you running a t-stat?=0D<br>> What =
are the oil temps when you say "high"? Synthetic? Weight? Oil pan or inlet =
temp location?=0D<br>> =0D<br>> This is my opinion, with synthetic 20W50 at=
 oil pain temps, I'd be okay during the climb with 240F and hopefully after=
 some air speed it drops down under 220F.=0D<br>> =0D<br>> I do agree you m=
ight have to open up to 100mm (4 inch) for oil cooler.=0D<br>> =0D<br>> - M=
att Boiteau=0D<br>>> On 2019-11-03 8:31:47 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@=
gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:=0D<br>>> =0D<br>>> Hi there =
people =0D<br>>> =0D<br>>> Over the past month I have updated the cooling s=
ystem of the Glasair Super II RG in order to continue our phase 1 testing. =
=0D<br>>> =0D<br>>> The previous setup had 540in3 two pass behind the ~20in=
2 unmodified right cheek inlet. =0D<br>>> We hadn=E2=80=99t included the le=
ft cheek as it was so difficult to get the air across to the right hand sid=
e diffuser. =0D<br>>> The Oil is 250in3 behind a 8in2 under spinner inlet. =
=0D<br>>> Initial testing was marginal with OAT below 20C (68F) =0D<br>>> S=
o having established that cooling was rather marginal above 68F I went for =
the planned upgrade path which included =0D<br>>> installing a secondary bi=
ke radiator of 130in3 plumbed into the heater circuit behind the ~15in2 lef=
t cheek inlet. =0D<br>>> The diffuser was designed to hopefully be more eff=
icient in a climb configuration. =0D<br>>> So the total radiators frontal a=
rea has been increased by 50% while the air in has increased 75%. =0D<br>>>=
 The unknown is that being in the heater circuit we don't know the total fl=
ow through the secondary rad compared with the primary rad. =0D<br>>> =0D<b=
r>>> Testing on the ground yield an approx 15-20C drop in coolant after 30m=
ins of 1800rpm idle. =0D<br>>> =0D<br>>> Flight Testing Results the next da=
y: OAT 21C (70F) =0D<br>>> Coolant Temps max=E2=80=99d on climb at 93C (200=
F) down 15C on highest Flight 3 climb temp with a 4C higher OAT. =0D<br>>> =
Coolant Temps dropped to 83C (181F) as speed got to 147 KIAS (Cruise is pub=
lished as 192 KIAS but we haven=E2=80=99t expanded the envelope to date) =
=0D<br>>> I=E2=80=99m very pleased with this result. =0D<br>>> =0D<br>>> Oi=
l Temps are high. I would much prefer them below 80C (176F) =0D<br>>> I=E2=
=80=99ll be interested to see what oil temp does as speed rises, but my hun=
ch is it needs more air (increase air to oil cooler from a diameter of 77mm=
 to 100mm) =0D<br>>> =0D<br>>> Slow Speed Tests: =0D<br>>> Vs Clean Stall i=
s at 67 KIAS row 2011 (Glasair claims 70 Knots at Gross) =0D<br>>> Vso Full=
 Flap Stall is at 57 KIAS row 2062 & 2083 (Glasair claims 59 Knots at Gross=
) =0D<br>>> =0D<br>>> Cheers =0D<br>>> =0D<br>>> Steve Izett =0D<br>>> Pert=
h Western Australia =0D<br>>> =0D<br>>> =0D<br>>> =0D<br>>> =0D<br>>> =0D<b=
r>>> =0D<br>>> =0D<br>>> =0D<br>>> -- =0D<br>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrot=
ary.com/ =0D<br>>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/list=
s/flyrotary/List.html =0D<br>=0D<br>=0D<br>--=0D<br>Homepage:  http://www.f=
lyrotary.com/=0D<br>Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/l=
ists/flyrotary/List.html=0D<br></flyrotary@lancaironline.net></flyrotary@la=
ncaironline.net></div></blockquote>
                                        </div></body>
------=_NextPart_1594689.033570766902--