X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=K8pgJGeI c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=27v3AnM3nPDHtGNXgeIMhA==:117 a=KwPsGajWcAwA:10 a=RgaUWeydRksA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=on22okXAAAAA:8 a=UMklNRUAdlkNpXabc5gA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=H1bcYMH5WeNpboxzYoEA:9 a=xPyQPV2aZOG0ieNj:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=NPqpj5bUEVj9vR1HIonK:22 From: "Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au" Received: from mail-qt0-f169.google.com ([209.85.216.169] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.1) with ESMTPS id 10635990 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 20:15:36 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.216.169; envelope-from=andrew@martinag.com.au Received: by mail-qt0-f169.google.com with SMTP id s39so15251478qth.7 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 17:15:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=martinag-com-au.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=JY2pf0TKWND7T+Rm3tS0uv08K2lxNFEtT+THJEI6G3Q=; b=j7Q1rBI1jt4IVfbqf8OylVVfBbqfyuHUML9OEm+mTLRpizCzscxGSQ45GSfJGQw2Zd Kk7EsqV7mVL2V1uc/Bu+AMwXKhXS10wgdUxZhOogfVF5QyRyhraKI/MeGYnivu7ZjICe tvcCI5b8Faq9ysjJbulDvoT1FPOh4Pf3K3UjY07gFfATccUc+OVnKwF4CvVZlnTGTeqT w+Qzv8N67YDOxuacv+GuzVrupfT2ly2wIkVK7Fb20jLqsOyiKPNqhpCjEctlBh1kTC2I QOXeiCqV1CDys5mSNVEceKWQl7tHLgGBl+PoX6g3m1skLpdx1iPGz5aJiMaGk1+KLw8b DnHw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=JY2pf0TKWND7T+Rm3tS0uv08K2lxNFEtT+THJEI6G3Q=; b=TvT99vR1g6AwkLrGZGSlhPwdV7oNElVWuPoVxCl9p/6VDivc342PgiMCbjxJiD9WtI RR7UG+jeWcOhlXTcjI9/FF7l+DnQPlSzDsXls41JSYpcZ2ITiUwMDUAozZXsps+2JuX/ 72lBRSazg/XgBDCY/GAEFmbvHbDjfhhToLx7T/xnculvah4XsPe7jBS6MQU4x1sbyxby 8Jf7qOKaZk8RuaQCDFqvWeACcaQ+yixCyOJ76CV1GzipG4hA5zvbTr0Ypt4LgITD5bnR AY2W3vhXKehLFq4L2csbW0jXeUPR4cBY8EwraQbtUQ+XrBFQdiL8BmSb1/gVIchFJ5XY jp9w== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytfWSDSLUJ9d1CU0EInhLZVH3NgSRLmri6qG/a97XJC1x6WWv59d bMXQ3FqPEdCU1o3MFMGs9bXNlGWwAOQn4UEtQ0Jm X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x226DjQJR6f0nc2RIzsfNLvc+xBs0Rou27jLX88AAWdFP+JvKAbmaq0aNe93Kq+IEn+Gook8VAljyw89UZG9QmbI= X-Received: by 10.200.0.204 with SMTP id d12mr43859967qtg.336.1517274919253; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 17:15:19 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.12.190.143 with HTTP; Mon, 29 Jan 2018 17:14:38 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [202.40.0.40] In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 09:14:38 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Thermostat for winter operations To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045f380096d22c0563f4187a" --f403045f380096d22c0563f4187a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Well, I am wary of thermostats, an old Volvo truck and a 2 year old Mercedes wagon have left on the side of the road with stuck shut thermostats, luckily both times within 10km walking distance of home. am I just unlucky? If I do install one in the plane it will become part of the annual inspection to remove and check its operation in boiling water. Andrew On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 7:20 AM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > No doubt Lynn is correct. But while power is everything to a racer, it > rarely is everything to the rest of us. Look at how temps in cars have been > inching upward for decades. If metallurgy & lubricants would allow it, > they'd be running 500 degree engines because it's more efficient (Lower > delta-T; less energy lost to the coolant/outside world, where it's not > doing any work). > > On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Guys, >> >> None other than our Rotary Guru Lynn Hanover has stated in the past >> that coolant temps over 160F hurt power........Perhaps >> he will Chime in here again and enlighten us !!............<:) >> >> Best, >> Kelly Troyer >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 4:14 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> Jeff, I also installed a thermostat after trying all the other >>> options, cowl flaps, cardboard over the rad, and could not get it constant >>> with the 180 degrees. I have operated much machinery here all fitted with >>> thermostats and have never had a failure for 40 years. I am more than >>> happy with a thermostat in my renesis -- would do it again every time. >>> Failures in thermostats are extremely rare, about as common as a prop >>> coming loose. My thermostat is permanently in place summer and winter. If >>> worried change it every 500 hours. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 1/30/2018 7:51 AM, Jeff Whaley jwhaley@datacast.com wrote: >>> >>>> Hello All: >>>> Up until this past weekend I have purposefully avoided using a >>>> thermostat in my 13B aircraft engine - reason being is that many years ago >>>> I had one stick open and another stick closed in my GMC truck. Encouraged >>>> by reading Steve Boese's flight report from last fall, I decided to give >>>> one a try. Operation up here in the frozen north requires some method of >>>> maintaining engine temperature when power is reduced or when it's really >>>> cold. Cowl flaps, louvers and mechanical controls are okay but they add a >>>> lot of weight and complication VS a simple thermostat. >>>> >>>> I opened up the top of my water pump housing, extracted the bypass >>>> plug, removed my 0.75" restrictor plate and inserted a 180F thermostat from >>>> Racing Beat. On Saturday I refilled the coolant system, pressurized it and >>>> ran the engine up to temperature. On Sunday I bled off the remaining >>>> pressure, rechecked the system, pressurized it to 8 PSI and went flying. >>>> At first I felt a bit uneasy as the engine warmed up to 185F-indicated >>>> while still on the ground - but I assured myself that is what it's supposed >>>> to do ! Other than my gauge reading 185F and the device being advertised >>>> as 180F it worked flawlessly; temperature never varied at all and there was >>>> a good source of cabin heat. OAT was about 3C or 36F at the time. >>>> >>>> My plan is to leave the thermostat in place for now and keep a close >>>> watch on engine temps as the OAT rises next spring/summer. I expect it >>>> will be removed for summer operations and re-installed again around October >>>> 2018 ... we'll see. >>>> >>>> Jeff >>>> 13B, RD1C, 130 hrs TT. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> > --f403045f380096d22c0563f4187a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well, I am wary of thermostats, an old Volvo truck an= d a 2 year old Mercedes wagon have left on the side of the road with stuck = shut thermostats, luckily both times within 10km walking distance of home. = am I just unlucky?
If I do install one in the plane it will become= part of the annual inspection to remove and check its operation in boiling= water.

Andrew

On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 7:20 AM, Charlie Eng= land ceengland7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
No doubt Lynn is correct. But while power = is everything to a racer, it rarely is everything to the rest of us. Look a= t how temps in cars have been inching upward for decades. If metallurgy &am= p; lubricants would allow it, they'd be running 500 degree engines beca= use it's more efficient (Lower delta-T; less energy lost to the coolant= /outside world, where it's not doing any work).

On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com <flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net> wrote:
Guys,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0None other than our Rotary Gu= ru Lynn Hanover has stated in the past that coolant temps over 160F hurt po= wer........Perhaps
he will Chime in here again and enlighten us != !............<:)

Best,
Kelly Troyer




On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 4:14 PM, Neil= Unger 12348ung@gma= il.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Jeff,=C2=A0=C2=A0 I also installed a thermo= stat after trying all the other options, cowl flaps, cardboard over the rad= ,=C2=A0 and could not get it constant with the 180 degrees.=C2=A0 I have op= erated much machinery here all fitted with thermostats and have never had a= failure for 40 years.=C2=A0 I am more than happy with a thermostat in my r= enesis -- would do it again every time.=C2=A0 Failures in thermostats are e= xtremely rare, about as common as a prop coming loose.=C2=A0 My thermostat = is permanently in place summer and winter.=C2=A0 If worried change it every= 500 hours.



On 1/30/2018 7:51 AM, Jeff Whaley jwhaley@datacast.com wrote:
Hello All:
Up until this past weekend I have purposefully avoided using a thermostat i= n my 13B aircraft engine - reason being is that many years ago I had one st= ick open and another stick closed in my GMC truck.=C2=A0 Encouraged by read= ing Steve Boese's flight report from last fall, I decided to give one a= try.=C2=A0 Operation up here in the frozen north requires some method of m= aintaining engine temperature when power is reduced or when it's really= cold.=C2=A0 Cowl flaps, louvers and mechanical controls are okay but they = add a lot of weight and complication VS a simple thermostat.

I opened up the top of my water pump housing, extracted the bypass plug, re= moved my 0.75" restrictor plate and inserted a 180F thermostat from Ra= cing Beat.=C2=A0 On Saturday I refilled the coolant system, pressurized it = and ran the engine up to temperature.=C2=A0 On Sunday I bled off the remain= ing pressure, rechecked the system, pressurized it to 8 PSI and went flying= .=C2=A0 At first I felt a bit uneasy as the engine warmed up to 185F-indica= ted while still on the ground - but I assured myself that is what it's = supposed to do !=C2=A0 Other than my gauge reading 185F and the device bein= g advertised as 180F it worked flawlessly; temperature never varied at all = and there was a good source of cabin heat.=C2=A0 OAT was about 3C or 36F at= the time.

My plan is to leave the thermostat in place for now and keep a close watch = on engine temps as the OAT rises next spring/summer.=C2=A0 I expect it will= be removed for summer operations and re-installed again around October 201= 8 ... we'll see.

Jeff
13B, RD1C, 130 hrs TT.







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