X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=K8pgJGeI c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=dIavB+HnD6SO0Y3oYPq1Pg==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=A-0mRrAPPO4A:10 a=RgaUWeydRksA:10 a=69EAbJreAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=pKIvBwQkAAAA:8 a=bsATwsvZAAAA:8 a=o1OHuDzbAAAA:8 a=kPR48rpoAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=1I2S5Qs6raqGvqHycrAA:9 a=h1acoQ8cXY-8QXMu:21 a=gaY59M7sdwpxgplg:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=77x-yTWI9uoA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=xPyZ54XvAAAA:8 a=9XZVJo6UKZ28EoGBGvgA:9 a=Wzub5-3V5MpeHGj2:21 a=3kd8TGJJUjmNaLfU:21 a=JysNxanlsTHNtyGW:21 a=SJCFYyG4B-UA:10 a=HfdpfQiixUcA:10 a=RTTcFYj4BG8A:10 a=xWmF-2C7K6YA:10 a=AcrfXRWS_UMA:10 a=a607N7b_M7cA:10 a=PpS2hZJ425QA:10 a=e3wm5Yygu-IA:10 a=HSc_A1uije0A:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=nLfs02IPoIQ3qSvAB1Ui:22 a=YgZUEpoybBZZp_vkc61X:22 a=5YQ6H4ZxyGn-KoBYtt8s:22 a=Y3nQ7mX9hcbL2wwZa1q_:22 a=LQCduUwlY3eUW_MavTj7:22 From: "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pf0-f180.google.com ([209.85.192.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.1) with ESMTPS id 10617320 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 08:45:54 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.192.180; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-pf0-f180.google.com with SMTP id t12so3080642pfg.2 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 05:45:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=hq/O0NX8wT2SJXqA015+33oMK+1TR12MI5tbUg4kmco=; b=Ih1XKl/bRUCe3IhxBtgAhcHs6f3o/SNdeILWjb+WHt6Ap9hirgG4L7/045MemCBqcs xv9FK1H9XWdmgmU0IyW0Ce1iXgtPC3/X/PowQoZtg1y8efMsnmbPIV4Q0wwm8n+5z2Lx HVmdBrzratEmPZFdEyeYLo1VNBEIOvmLEeuRFMX7l34agA2e7RfcspaHYt6SAwp5U/Yl myLwKGy/TPS7PV3BOkwIOaUgSCYB/VafEQcUrkGbtfVhIDvkJM/nX8GyNRSD7lh9tPeu /jLR9G+NJxTqwNJBRb5muqgN6iWcog8yjcOW4PeEaLuBT7jzYRYbzAWIH6S9O5rmMopP 5n5Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=hq/O0NX8wT2SJXqA015+33oMK+1TR12MI5tbUg4kmco=; b=VGdFcqBZiqFQjzb52/AgIX8NOXv8FvUBBkPy9+kqpHrXwLZEAtqGjmK6dMxRQBoebQ ZcpjcYP0LH8uq/870dGaYxhXjOOk0vLHS/OxeC0nbnXcKODQ4oj0U6Z9QCdTiFzzyWmL Jv4So5RkyihTsBAR4XAgaOt9vEzDArtDcuMKwL7VeS1V8QTJFusfBw8H6wC0goMB5zOx bVxFxYkCVjdjSR8aMIQqx4r3+q9fSKToYG0MbRQ6guXIhKd+kyP2ucDq93rb16g4sHkO PbhcVa7d9PdERe5xhxfg/kBkPD0d4p9RAiwQ6Ti3PxtIZ1xgPhblC2xSAjQNZT+51XWA U7dQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxyte2hEvJgIOEbC0C4+uLtA+nySmdCPipQQ0mdR/w4osRNin85C95 QYvwXmv1osoY0FU2VHVFRktBoxl2Mlef/CNtD10= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x2271h6nrEDeZ27k0l1zizg917AfJ80IT5LuF3lXVJPomp65XnZAs3/sWOogkz3J45tEhDIJp7rxOgtF2Qyr9quc= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:2f84:: with SMTP id t4-v6mr5366129plb.81.1516801535919; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 05:45:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.236.179.149 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Jan 2018 05:45:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 07:45:35 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Simple bullet proof Ignition systems? To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000be4911056385e0e3" --000000000000be4911056385e0e3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The Megajolt (and Megasquirt/Microsquirt, for full control of ignition/injection) are pretty well debugged hardware/software (running on thousands of vehicles), but you still have to tune them. Lynn's drawing is about as no compromise simple/reliable as it can get. The pickups and coil drivers have had bugs beaten out of them running on millions of vehicles. Similar setups have been run on Lycs (usually using GM drivers) in a/c for decades. The only downsides I see to Lynn's setup is lack of redundancy across both rotors, and inability to advance the timing at altitude/lower power for fuel economy. Loss of one rotor means way less than 50% power & potential for really violent torsional issues. Even if nothing breaks, you're coming down fairly soon, unless it's a design that will fly on a very small percentage of rated power. Charlie On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 11:20 PM, william Aldridge willja67@hotmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Well cheap is good as long as its quality. Simple is an absolute no > compromise allowed necessity. Although my dad is an electrical engineer who > never set foot in college (completely self taught with a lot of natural > aptitude) those genes seem to have missed me completely. I have better than > average mechanical ability but my mind turns to mush whenever electricity > gets involved. The ignition, avionics, wiring, etc will all require a lot > of someone else's help. > > Thanks, > Will Aldridge > > > > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" > > Date: 1/23/18 9:15 PM (GMT-07:00) > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Simple bullet proof Ignition systems? > > > > > > \ > > We might be straying off the path of 'simple', but an option functionally > similar to Ross' ignition only setup might be: > https://www.autosportlabs.com/product/megajolte/ > Like Ross' box, it would also require a different trigger wheel. But the > controller price is well under $200. > update: > I finally found Lynn Hanover's dual pickup drawing for use with two MSDs > or two Chrysler ignition modules. Same issue with risk of killing one > rotor, but pretty cheap: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Message/ > 38794.html?altLanguage= > > Hope that helps, > > Charlie > > > > On 1/23/2018 4:55 PM, William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com wrote: > > Will, > Ross doesn't generally list Rotary engines in his catalog, but he isn't > against them. He has a injection that still lists rotary engines. To run > his ignition only you would likely need to get an aluminum e-shaft pulley > to install his magnets. He has his own Hall effect sensors. He used to sell > both ignition units and full EMS systems. Don't know if he is still doing > it individually. The advantage of his system is that he does do aircraft > stuff. His business has in fact gravitated towards aircraft since so many > cars now come with their own systems unless it is a full custom build they > often don't need an EMS. BTW I don't work for them or get anything for > recommending their products. I met Ross at Reno while crewing for a friend > on a Sport Class entry. Ross was providing an EMS for a very fast Questair > Venture running a turbo Lyc. Very good guy. A 4 cylinder unit with dual > plug coils will run the rotary just fine. The timing is the same, except > that the coil isn't wasting a spark in the exhaust, instead it is firing > both plugs on a single rotor. Ross' site still lists his "coil pack > ignition" for vehicles with mechanical injection or carburetors. > Bill > > On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:24 PM, william Aldridge willja67@hotmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Looked over his site this morning and if i read It right there was only a >> fuel injection controller/ system, no ignition control. Out was here: >> http://www.sdsefi.com/prices.html >> >> If I'm reading that chart at the top of the page right he doesn't supply >> ignition systems for the rotary. >> >> >> >> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: "William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com" >> Date: 1/23/18 12:14 PM (GMT-07:00) >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Simple bullet proof Ignition systems? >> >> Guys, I don't know if he is still offering it but SDSEFI (Simple Digital >> Systems, www.SDSEFI.com) has both an ignition only system and a full >> engine management system that will work for a 13B. His system doesn't have >> split firing, but most people running a high performance rotary do both >> plugs at once anyway. He has a newer dual in one box system, FOR AIRCRAFT >> that could be run simultaneously to do a split fire and be fully redundant. >> Bill Jepson >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> Maybe someone out there has a RWS original ignition controller they want >>> to let go of. No programming required, uses 13-B standard pickup and >>> ignition coils. Of course you'll have to use carburetor(s). >>> >>> I have one, but really don't want to let go if it. Its simplicity is >>> nice if just want to get 13-B running. (All you have to do is set timing >>> and tune carburetors.) >>> >>> Finn >>> >>> On 1/22/2018 11:31 PM, william Aldridge willja67@hotmail.com wrote: >>> >>> I'm building a one off experimental, therefore, i need a simple bullet >>> proof Ignition system and am wondering what is currently available? I have >>> the 2007 version of Tracy's conversion manual in which he gives the option >>> of either using the stock distributor etc, or use a computerized ignition >>> system with stock or Chevy ls coils. >>> >>> To reiterate, since the airframe is unproven i only want to be worried >>> about flying the plane not the engine. It's a small plane the size that >>> would normally have 100hp installed (1200 lbs gross) so if I only have 150 >>> hp I'll still be doing good. In other words I'm willing to sacrifice a >>> little power for a lot of reliability and simplicity. >>> >>> I don't like the idea of the stock distributor, since there isn't much >>> room in the cowl and there's no redundancy. I also don't like the idea of >>> electronic ignition. I've read enough stories of lengthy battles to get the >>> computers to play nice with the engine and don't want to go that route. >>> Again simplicity and reliability at the expense of power and fuel >>> efficiency is what I'm after. Also planning on using a carb for the same >>> reason. I can always upgrade the engine later if i want. >>> >>> I figure there has to have been some other options come up in the last >>> 10 years. I used to subscribe to the other guys list, but don't know if any >>> of the ideas he put forth have merit. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Will Aldridge >>> >>> Ps my build thread on hba here: http://www.homebuiltairp >>> lanes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16831 >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone >>> >>> >>> >> > > > > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > > <#m_3301205577451664069_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > --000000000000be4911056385e0e3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The Megajolt (and Megasquirt/Microsquirt, for full control= of ignition/injection) are pretty well debugged hardware/software (running= on thousands of vehicles), but you still have to tune them. Lynn's dra= wing is about as no compromise simple/reliable as it can get. The pickups a= nd coil drivers have had bugs beaten out of them running on millions of veh= icles. Similar setups have been run on Lycs (usually using GM drivers) in a= /c for decades. The only downsides I see to Lynn's setup is lack of red= undancy across both rotors, and inability to advance the timing at altitude= /lower power for fuel economy. Loss of one rotor means way less than 50% po= wer & potential for really violent torsional issues. Even if nothing br= eaks, you're coming down fairly soon, unless it's a design that wil= l fly on a very small percentage of rated power.

Charlie=

On Tue, Jan 2= 3, 2018 at 11:20 PM, william Aldridge willja67@hotmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= wrote:
=C2=A0Well cheap is good as long as its quality. Simple is an absolute= no compromise allowed necessity. Although my dad is an electrical engineer= who never set foot in college (completely self taught with a lot of natura= l aptitude) those genes seem to have missed me completely. I have better than average mechanical ability but my= mind turns to mush whenever electricity gets involved. The ignition, avion= ics, wiring, etc will all require a lot of someone else's help.=C2=A0

Thanks,
Will Aldridge=C2=A0



Sent from my Verizo= n, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
Date: 1/23/18 9:15 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Simple bullet proof Ignition systems?





\

We might be straying off the path of 'simple', but an option functi= onally similar to Ross' ignition only setup might be:
https://www.autosp= ortlabs.com/product/megajolte/
Like Ross' box, it would also require a different trigger wheel. But th= e controller price is well under $200.
update:
I finally found Lynn Hanover's dual pickup drawing for use with two MSD= s or two Chrysler ignition modules. Same issue with risk of killing one rot= or, but pretty cheap:
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Messa= ge/38794.html?altLanguage=3D

Hope that helps,

Charlie



On 1/23/2018 4:55 PM, William Jepson wrjjrs@gmail.com wrote:
Will,
Ross doesn't generally list Rotary engines in his catalog, but he = isn't against them. He has a injection that still lists rotary engines.= To run his ignition only you would likely need to get an aluminum e-shaft = pulley to install his magnets. He has his own Hall effect sensors. He used to sell both ignition units and full EMS = systems. Don't know if he is still doing it individually. The advantage= of his system is that he does do aircraft stuff. His business has in fact = gravitated towards aircraft since so many cars now come with their own systems unless it is a full custom build= they often don't need an EMS. BTW I don't work for them or get any= thing for recommending their products. I met Ross at Reno while crewing for= a friend on a Sport Class entry. Ross was providing an EMS for a very fast Questair Venture running a turbo Lyc. Ver= y good guy. A 4 cylinder unit with dual plug coils will run the rotary just= fine. The timing is the same, except that the coil isn't wasting a spa= rk in the exhaust, instead it is firing both plugs on a single rotor.=C2=A0 Ross' site still lists his "c= oil pack ignition" for vehicles with mechanical injection or carbureto= rs.
Bill

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:24 PM, william Aldrid= ge willja67@hotmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Looked over his site this morning and if i read It right there was onl= y a fuel injection controller/ system,=C2=A0 no ignition control. Out was h= ere:=C2=A0h= ttp://www.sdsefi.com/prices.html

If I'm reading that chart at the top of the page right he doesn= 9;t supply ignition systems for the rotary.=C2=A0



Sent from my Verizo= n, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
Date: 1/23/18 12:14 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Simple bullet proof Ignition systems?

Guys, I don't know if he is still offering it but SDSE= FI (Simple Digital Systems, www.SDSEFI.com) has= both an ignition only system and a full engine management system that will= work for a 13B. His system doesn't have split firing, but most people = running a high performance rotary do both plugs at once anyway. He has a newer dual in one box system, FOR AIRCRAFT = that could be run simultaneously to do a split fire and be fully redundant.
Bill Jepson=C2=A0
=C2=A0

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 6:08 AM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= wrote:
Maybe someone out there has a RWS original ignition co= ntroller they want to let go of. No programming required, uses 13-B standar= d pickup and ignition coils. Of course you'll have to use carburetor(s).

I have one, but really don't want to let go if it. Its simplicity is ni= ce if just want to get 13-B running. (All you have to do is set timing and = tune carburetors.)

Finn

On 1/22/2018 11:31 PM, william Aldridge willja67@hotmail.com wrote:
=C2=A0I'm building a one off experimental, therefore, i need a sim= ple bullet proof Ignition system and am wondering what is currently availab= le?=C2=A0 I have the 2007 version of Tracy's conversion manual in which= he gives the option of either using the stock distributor etc, or use a computerized ignition system with stock or Chevy ls coils.= =C2=A0

To reiterate, since the airframe is unproven i only want to be worried= about flying the plane not the engine. It's a small plane the size tha= t would normally have 100hp installed (1200 lbs gross) so if I only have 15= 0 hp I'll still be doing good. In other words I'm willing to sacrifice a little power for a lot of reliability= and simplicity.=C2=A0

I don't like the idea of the stock distributor, since there isn= 9;t much room in the cowl and there's no redundancy. I also don't l= ike the idea of electronic ignition. I've read enough stories of length= y battles to get the computers to play nice with the engine and don't want to go that route. Again simplicity and reliabili= ty at the expense of power and fuel efficiency is what I'm after. Also = planning on using a carb for the same reason. I can always upgrade the engi= ne later if i want.=C2=A0

I figure there has to have been some other options come up in the last= 10 years. I used to subscribe to the other guys list, but don't know i= f any of the ideas he put forth have merit.=C2=A0

Thanks,=C2=A0
Will Aldridge=C2=A0




Sent from my Verizo= n, Samsung Galaxy smartphone






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