X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Ernest Christley" Received: from nm27-vm4.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([98.136.216.147] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c1) with ESMTPS id 9473082 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 17:50:53 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.136.216.147; envelope-from=echristley@att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1487199034; bh=dGQtgpaftGM7S53ZxyHqR7O19fkvY1b5ZlYTGo5Tres=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=0IpyH7EcJ1RX3ZYTUYwhwZIPeO8ll4Zk4lHmxcRM6qomnU9ppfcQ7ONmMk7AGoq3+IbIPTOpEknDfbdEFwF4/Y0gf+pUs9ZcXb/Ib0T6T29AwAALhV8v+gpbA/fq8VdSjwwJUy51CHaZouAwx5NDQvvJPxgYjvd4HMr5bxvWTK0= Received: from [98.137.12.63] by nm27.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2017 22:50:34 -0000 Received: from [98.137.12.193] by tm8.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2017 22:50:34 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1001.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Feb 2017 22:50:34 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 101724.71909.bm@omp1001.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: j92waKwVM1lpJ14vHMZ61N37Mq0C2VT0IO5sPuVsICJ6Hmh2ctedKtpRqXD2NWs eeeSKVweboKBeV4uhPkiFtFKBDCFgFj.G5wkIpR4lGNxA8MI3K2cpxRZuiF4cNMI3DQidGAxcYEp _8q3o8OAyGxW5jKTDx7BSYtYnjIqKZIcpD84sF.CazF0oapDRbmoceNMU4uBXnznIDExGU3FIBU6 BqBOahQQilcufO2RF9uyjByzi37E6_bI6hYACfgPy2lyW4oOEQ9QtLGF3t6U7VRHsJTxUtaPImp8 gVggkmWM7rAHtOoxF_s8GiEzyqGMiKQbIrpDBh66lmbxmp.l5Bj_BPbChCyA.qZlLisTo1fWDIRf 6ijBUpk_Y03No2oiGVAijpITASxehwhaPpnARnORnPLXUhn5JyjyNFfh4Bdjqsu19NW8O0By0kpR BFxo5_locp6.RQFnq4EC_uV524HvKVVSqqQUJFBOqHWj9NVb2q5dnTkSIn_OEp_x_3b5EnbuyRrR F11MDFKmTRB9AHZQXQHpwFWZapFsfraJSO3zhe.fpvj0IPGk3jdA8G6.FfirMM0o- Received: from jws300082.mail.gq1.yahoo.com by sendmailws135.mail.gq1.yahoo.com; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 22:50:33 +0000; 1487199033.738 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 22:50:33 +0000 (UTC) Reply-To: Ernest Christley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-ID: <1184214495.145298.1487199033245@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary DFI/EFI & Ign Options MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_145297_778238050.1487199033239" Content-Length: 29126 ------=_Part_145297_778238050.1487199033239 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I had fuel trim built into my throttle.=C2=A0=20 -The control had a potentiometer that the MS used to determine where it was= set.=C2=A0=20 -The push-pull cable to the throttle plate was set to be fully open when th= e control was at 50% travel.=C2=A0=20 -The fuel map was set so that it was butting up against lean cutoff for 50%= of the control travel.=C2=A0 After that, with the plate fully open, the co= ntrol just added fuel until up to 12:1 at full travel. It wasn't a throttle control as much as it was a power control.=C2=A0 :-) If this Bearhawk project happens, I'll be repeating the setup with a three = rotor. =20 On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:14 PM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote: =20 That make= sense. Sounds like a very simple solution. I don=E2=80=99t think I would b= e willing to give up external fuel map trim. I like the ability to fine tun= e F/A in different phases of flight. I=E2=80=99m sure this method would wor= k with the MS3 unit and =E2=80=9Cfuel table blending=E2=80=9D =C2=A0Bobby = =C2=A0From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]= =20 Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:57 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary DFI/EFI & Ign Options =C2=A0Bobby,Adding a = CAS controlled EDIS-4 would just be an ignition backup. =C2=A0The configura= tion I worked out was:-for ignition, the MegaSquirt controlled two EDIS-4. = =C2=A0If either EDIS-4 failed, I had backup. =C2=A0If the MS failed, the ED= IS-4 would continue to run on their own in limp-home mode.-for fuel, the Me= gaSquirt controlled the normal set of 4 injectors. =C2=A0O2 sensor feedback= helped to set the tuning, but mixture was controlled by manifold pressure = and RPM in normal operation. =C2=A0A separate, needle-valve controlled, gra= vity fed line was run to the throttle body to supply fuel in the event that= the MS or injectors failed. =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4= :44 PM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote: =C2=A0Ernest,= =C2=A0Would this configuration be a single controller for fuel and coils? = =C2=A0Bobby=C2=A0From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancairo= nline.net]=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:41 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary DFI/EFI & Ign Options=C2=A0Wired up a Fuelt= ech ECU or the Megasquirt?=C2=A0I have, in fact, had a well running aircraf= t rotary engine with a MegaSquirt, and may again in the not to distant futu= re.=C2=A0Bobby, for a secondary CAS, wire up a Ford EDIS-4 ignition control= ler to the trailing plugs. =C2=A0You don't even have to provide it with a c= ontrol input. =C2=A0It's limp-home mode is 10 degrees of advance. Set the C= AS to have 15 degrees, and your set.=C2=A0On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4= :24 PM, Neil Unger wrote:=C2=A0Gents,=C2=A0 T= here is no doubt as I continually say that tracy's gear and=20 indeed tracy was 20 years ahead of his time.=C2=A0 Being computer illiterat= e=20 I rely on others to present something like an ECU in a ready to go=20 format.=C2=A0 For that reason I have invested in the Fueltech ECU, but yet = to=20 wire in.=C2=A0 IS there any on this forum that has already done this? Neil. On 2/16/2017 8:14 AM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote: > I did a little MegaSquirt 3 research after Tracy's post. Charlie's been t= elling me for years he though the Megasquirt would be a good solution. It l= ooks very usable for our application. The current firmware and feature set = supports 4 rotor, 3 rotor, older 2 rotor and Renesis engines. For the Renes= is using the stock trigger wheel, a secondary CAS for a second ECU can be p= ositioned up to 20 degrees offset from the stock location. This is a curren= t firmware limitation. Using a rotary compatible MegaSquirt wheel, each CAS= position is fully programmable. They don't support an overall "Fuel Map Tr= im" feature using an external potentiometer. However they have a "Fuel Tabl= e Blending" feature that should accomplish the same thing. The MS3 supports= two independent Fuel Tables and you can use an external potentiometer to a= djust a bending of the tables. A balance would need to be achieved=C2=A0 al= lowing either controller to provide full rich fuel as well as lean cruise. = My range would be 12.5:1 to 15.8:1. May be doable. > > Bobby > (love my EC3 but would like a second CAS) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:21 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Rotary DFI/EFI & Ign Options > > Bill, Tracy and others, > > I should have added that I spoke with Ross about using his system on the = rotary just last week so, I suspect his comment was accurate...unless he wa= s juiced up on his morning coffee as I like to be!=C2=A0 I also suspect Tra= cy is making a very good point with the MegaSquirt system.=C2=A0 Challengin= g maybe, difficult sure, yet in no way impossible.=C2=A0 I worked in combus= tion at GM for over a decade and am an instrumentation specialist from my g= raduate school days in physical science so I have a few points of confidenc= e to draw from.=C2=A0 Open source software has become a huge advantage to t= he RC users so, I suspect the same will be true with MegaSquirt despite tha= t aviation is likely to represent a small segment for their audience. > > Rick > > -- > Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary= /List.html > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20 > -- > Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary= /List.html -- Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/L= ist.html =C2=A0 =20 ------=_Part_145297_778238050.1487199033239 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I had fuel trim built into my throttle. 
-The control had a potentiometer that th= e MS used to determine where it was set. 
-The push-pull cable to the throttle plate= was set to be fully open when the control was at 50% travel. 
-The fuel map was set= so that it was butting up against lean cutoff for 50% of the control trave= l.  After that, with the plate fully open, the control just added fuel= until up to 12:1 at full travel.

It wasn't a throttle control as much as it was a power control.  :-)<= /div>

If this Bearhawk project happens, I'll= be repeating the setup with a three rotor.


On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:14= PM, Bobby J. Hughes <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
<= /div>

That make sense. Sounds li= ke a very simple solution. I don=E2=80=99t think I would be willing to give= up external fuel map trim. I like the ability to fine tune F/A in differen= t phases of flight. I=E2=80=99m sure this method would work with the MS3 un= it and =E2=80=9Cfuel table blending=E2=80=9D
 
Bobby<= /div>
&n= bsp;
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailt= o:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 201= 7 4:57 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRo= tary] Re: Rotary DFI/EFI & Ign Options
 
Bobby,
Adding a CAS controlle= d EDIS-4 would just be an ignition backup.
 
The con= figuration I worked out was:
-for ignition, the MegaSquirt controll= ed two EDIS-4.  If either EDIS-4 failed, I had backup.  If the MS= failed, the EDIS-4 would continue to run on their own in limp-home mode.
-for fuel, the MegaSquirt controlled the normal set of 4 injectors. =  O2 sensor feedback helped to set the tuning, but mixture was controll= ed by manifold pressure and RPM in normal operation.  A separate, need= le-valve controlled, gravity fed line was run to the throttle body to suppl= y fuel in the event that the MS or injectors failed.
 =
 
On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:44 PM, Bobby = J. Hughes <flyrota= ry@lancaironline.net> wrote:
 
Ernest,
<= span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-= serif";color:#1F497D;"> 
Would this configuration be a single controller for f= uel and coils?
 
Bob= by
 
F= rom: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:41 PM
To= : Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary D= FI/EFI & Ign Options
<= div>
 
Wired up a Fueltech ECU or the Megasquirt?<= /span>
 
I have, in fact, had a well ru= nning aircraft rotary engine with a MegaSquirt, and may again in the not to= distant future.
 
Bobby, for a= secondary CAS, wire up a Ford EDIS-4 ignition controller to the trailing p= lugs.  You don't even have to provide it with a control input.  I= t's limp-home mode is 10 degrees of advance. Set the CAS to have 15 degrees= , and your set.
 
On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:24 PM, Neil Unger <flyrotary@lancaironline.net&g= t; wrote:
 
Gents,  There is no doubt as I continually say that tracy= 's gear and
indeed tracy was 20 years ahead of his time.  Being co= mputer illiterate
I rely on others to present something like an ECU in = a ready to go
format.  For that reason I have invested in the Fuel= tech ECU, but yet to
wire in.  IS there any on this forum that has= already done this? Neil.


On 2/16/2017 8:14 AM, Bobby J. Hughes = wrote:
> I did a little MegaSquirt 3 research after Tracy's post. Cha= rlie's been telling me for years he though the Megasquirt would be a good s= olution. It looks very usable for our application. The current firmware and= feature set supports 4 rotor, 3 rotor, older 2 rotor and Renesis engines. = For the Renesis using the stock trigger wheel, a secondary CAS for a second= ECU can be positioned up to 20 degrees offset from the stock location. Thi= s is a current firmware limitation. Using a rotary compatible MegaSquirt wh= eel, each CAS position is fully programmable. They don't support an overall= "Fuel Map Trim" feature using an external potentiometer. However they have= a "Fuel Table Blending" feature that should accomplish the same thing. The= MS3 supports two independent Fuel Tables and you can use an external poten= tiometer to adjust a bending of the tables. A balance would need to be achi= eved  allowing either controller to provide full rich fuel as well as = lean cruise. My range would be 12.5:1 to 15.8:1. May be doable.
>
= > Bobby
> (love my EC3 but would like a second CAS)
>
>= ;
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in= aircraft [mailto:fly= rotary@lancaironline.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:= 21 PM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Ro= tary DFI/EFI & Ign Options
>
> Bill, Tracy and others,
&= gt;
> I should have added that I spoke with Ross about using his syst= em on the rotary just last week so, I suspect his comment was accurate...un= less he was juiced up on his morning coffee as I like to be!  I also s= uspect Tracy is making a very good point with the MegaSquirt system.  = Challenging maybe, difficult sure, yet in no way impossible.  I worked= in combustion at GM for over a decade and am an instrumentation specialist= from my graduate school days in physical science so I have a few points of= confidence to draw from.  Open source software has become a huge adva= ntage to the RC users so, I suspect the same will be true with MegaSquirt d= espite that aviation is likely to represent a small segment for their audie= nce.
>
> Rick
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://w= ww.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:  ht= tp://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>  =   
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:  http://mail.lancaironl= ine.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html



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