X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Charlie England" Received: from mail-yb0-f171.google.com ([209.85.213.171] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2c1) with ESMTPS id 9473070 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 17:44:30 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.213.171; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-yb0-f171.google.com with SMTP id w194so176012ybe.0 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 14:44:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to; bh=TyagXYxpJXoQuTHpAwfhNxrk/tZU2/z8CYYBRgkhCpk=; b=K7yecVsDKVr9BrZBbe8tpXECb6bE6GKZ/HY8fjDEP59D+EDVOEmykusPAj1kxhB04q ovnZiOj83F9Y4GWfPm7KqHY79ySAL63rW3b2hO+0qTDA9Rf5iN0B3CdwbHb7f9lwP4TJ 8ohrsjuEo9exT4ukMIDL72JHk81BOmreHUNr7XTjbbD6QRTZjn5lbisEUApzzi4AUSes 8CNcW+oat/IhrFiieH7BSeuKOY0MlGZx8ox7rEW5RP+XLvEe5g3IrDDo0r9bahzQryJA lANmJFShRBvUg9k71rzRAV9ATohsQM00yhtN0i46TytGZ6rwE/dn+6yzx3t6VnzcqNoc zQew== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=TyagXYxpJXoQuTHpAwfhNxrk/tZU2/z8CYYBRgkhCpk=; b=gfc2V6xVJobUOqxYWCA5kaw74WfglHttG+lG+VR1C9KRXxLKr9SF92c7iEjNL8sGZI Lg7OdfrX6oTa/dXEmBpmHjRkHy89YiWjMMBcJ1M10Qi6y7x1xKjya/V3r+pLBglhrCeb eFH2WyUov3s1IuPKmJ2026I8yuPQvt9TgRRg5jwiH6OfpGQ/xAz1m9furIzoLejptyco ObNpkqSFSzxV+UDIEJdBbJMYzP/8jN2fwigMPdGKULWVDAtjiJn5iM18w7iOqcZ9Y74S dug2Kap+30EbcIqU7ZcK3pnaCyMRWor5hkYd1/Ddx5J/O6JemBYqJfQeb36a5fhKHhib Fq9Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39nUpAaVbgy//D1diGGBtForwciivF+1U827BX0VcatgeV9PzTKd+eLbxdlStGx0tQ== X-Received: by 10.37.170.166 with SMTP id t35mr26041459ybi.86.1487198651986; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 14:44:11 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from ?IPv6:2602:306:25fb:1599:ccce:4a0a:7c08:b004? ([2602:306:25fb:1599:ccce:4a0a:7c08:b004]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id a3sm1896297ywe.55.2017.02.15.14.44.10 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Feb 2017 14:44:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary DFI/EFI & Ign Options To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:45:43 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------08A093BC2B8AED63E21BE65B" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------08A093BC2B8AED63E21BE65B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Earnest, did you test the EDIS fallback mode by actually 'failing' the Megasquirt? Was this on a Renesis, or a 13B with a 36-1 trigger wheel? I've been told that the EDIS requires a 36-1 wheel, which would rule it out as a stand-alone solution for the Renesis (different wheel). Charlie On 2/15/2017 4:13 PM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote: > > That make sense. Sounds like a very simple solution. I don’t think I > would be willing to give up external fuel map trim. I like the ability > to fine tune F/A in different phases of flight. I’m sure this method > would work with the MS3 unit and “fuel table blending” > > Bobby > > *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:57 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary DFI/EFI & Ign Options > > Bobby, > > Adding a CAS controlled EDIS-4 would just be an ignition backup. > > The configuration I worked out was: > > -for ignition, the MegaSquirt controlled two EDIS-4. If either EDIS-4 > failed, I had backup. If the MS failed, the EDIS-4 would continue to > run on their own in limp-home mode. > > -for fuel, the MegaSquirt controlled the normal set of 4 injectors. > O2 sensor feedback helped to set the tuning, but mixture was > controlled by manifold pressure and RPM in normal operation. A > separate, needle-valve controlled, gravity fed line was run to the > throttle body to supply fuel in the event that the MS or injectors failed. > > On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:44 PM, Bobby J. Hughes > > wrote: > > Ernest, > > Would this configuration be a single controller for fuel and coils? > > Bobby > > *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:41 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary DFI/EFI & Ign Options > > Wired up a Fueltech ECU or the Megasquirt? > > I have, in fact, had a well running aircraft rotary engine with a > MegaSquirt, and may again in the not to distant future. > > Bobby, for a secondary CAS, wire up a Ford EDIS-4 ignition controller > to the trailing plugs. You don't even have to provide it with a > control input. It's limp-home mode is 10 degrees of advance. Set the > CAS to have 15 degrees, and your set. > > On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:24 PM, Neil Unger > > wrote: > > Gents, There is no doubt as I continually say that tracy's gear and > indeed tracy was 20 years ahead of his time. Being computer illiterate > I rely on others to present something like an ECU in a ready to go > format. For that reason I have invested in the Fueltech ECU, but yet to > wire in. IS there any on this forum that has already done this? Neil. > > > On 2/16/2017 8:14 AM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote: > > I did a little MegaSquirt 3 research after Tracy's post. Charlie's > been telling me for years he though the Megasquirt would be a good > solution. It looks very usable for our application. The current > firmware and feature set supports 4 rotor, 3 rotor, older 2 rotor and > Renesis engines. For the Renesis using the stock trigger wheel, a > secondary CAS for a second ECU can be positioned up to 20 degrees > offset from the stock location. This is a current firmware limitation. > Using a rotary compatible MegaSquirt wheel, each CAS position is fully > programmable. They don't support an overall "Fuel Map Trim" feature > using an external potentiometer. However they have a "Fuel Table > Blending" feature that should accomplish the same thing. The MS3 > supports two independent Fuel Tables and you can use an external > potentiometer to adjust a bending of the tables. A balance would need > to be achieved allowing either controller to provide full rich fuel as > well as lean cruise. My range would be 12.5:1 to 15.8:1. May be doable. > > > > Bobby > > (love my EC3 but would like a second CAS) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net > ] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:21 PM > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Rotary DFI/EFI & Ign Options > > > > Bill, Tracy and others, > > > > I should have added that I spoke with Ross about using his system on > the rotary just last week so, I suspect his comment was > accurate...unless he was juiced up on his morning coffee as I like to > be! I also suspect Tracy is making a very good point with the > MegaSquirt system. Challenging maybe, difficult sure, yet in no way > impossible. I worked in combustion at GM for over a decade and am an > instrumentation specialist from my graduate school days in physical > science so I have a few points of confidence to draw from. Open > source software has become a huge advantage to the RC users so, I > suspect the same will be true with MegaSquirt despite that aviation is > likely to represent a small segment for their audience. > > > > Rick > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --------------08A093BC2B8AED63E21BE65B Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Earnest, did you test the EDIS fallback mode by actually 'failing' the Megasquirt? Was this on a Renesis, or a 13B with a 36-1 trigger wheel? I've been told that the EDIS requires a 36-1 wheel, which would rule it out as a stand-alone solution for the Renesis (different wheel).

Charlie

On 2/15/2017 4:13 PM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote:

That make sense. Sounds like a very simple solution. I don’t think I would be willing to give up external fuel map trim. I like the ability to fine tune F/A in different phases of flight. I’m sure this method would work with the MS3 unit and “fuel table blending”

 

Bobby

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:57 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary DFI/EFI & Ign Options

 

Bobby,

Adding a CAS controlled EDIS-4 would just be an ignition backup.

 

The configuration I worked out was:

-for ignition, the MegaSquirt controlled two EDIS-4.  If either EDIS-4 failed, I had backup.  If the MS failed, the EDIS-4 would continue to run on their own in limp-home mode.

-for fuel, the MegaSquirt controlled the normal set of 4 injectors.  O2 sensor feedback helped to set the tuning, but mixture was controlled by manifold pressure and RPM in normal operation.  A separate, needle-valve controlled, gravity fed line was run to the throttle body to supply fuel in the event that the MS or injectors failed.

 

 

On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:44 PM, Bobby J. Hughes <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

 

Ernest,

 

Would this configuration be a single controller for fuel and coils?

 

Bobby

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:41 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary DFI/EFI & Ign Options

 

Wired up a Fueltech ECU or the Megasquirt?

 

I have, in fact, had a well running aircraft rotary engine with a MegaSquirt, and may again in the not to distant future.

 

Bobby, for a secondary CAS, wire up a Ford EDIS-4 ignition controller to the trailing plugs.  You don't even have to provide it with a control input.  It's limp-home mode is 10 degrees of advance. Set the CAS to have 15 degrees, and your set.

 

On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 4:24 PM, Neil Unger <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

 

Gents,  There is no doubt as I continually say that tracy's gear and
indeed tracy was 20 years ahead of his time.  Being computer illiterate
I rely on others to present something like an ECU in a ready to go
format.  For that reason I have invested in the Fueltech ECU, but yet to
wire in.  IS there any on this forum that has already done this? Neil.


On 2/16/2017 8:14 AM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote:
> I did a little MegaSquirt 3 research after Tracy's post. Charlie's been telling me for years he though the Megasquirt would be a good solution. It looks very usable for our application. The current firmware and feature set supports 4 rotor, 3 rotor, older 2 rotor and Renesis engines. For the Renesis using the stock trigger wheel, a secondary CAS for a second ECU can be positioned up to 20 degrees offset from the stock location. This is a current firmware limitation. Using a rotary compatible MegaSquirt wheel, each CAS position is fully programmable. They don't support an overall "Fuel Map Trim" feature using an external potentiometer. However they have a "Fuel Table Blending" feature that should accomplish the same thing. The MS3 supports two independent Fuel Tables and you can use an external potentiometer to adjust a bending of the tables. A balance would need to be achieved  allowing either controller to provide full rich fuel as well as lean cruise. My range would be 12.5:1 to 15.8:1. May be doable.
>
> Bobby
> (love my EC3 but would like a second CAS)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:21 PM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Rotary DFI/EFI & Ign Options
>
> Bill, Tracy and others,
>
> I should have added that I spoke with Ross about using his system on the rotary just last week so, I suspect his comment was accurate...unless he was juiced up on his morning coffee as I like to be!  I also suspect Tracy is making a very good point with the MegaSquirt system.  Challenging maybe, difficult sure, yet in no way impossible.  I worked in combustion at GM for over a decade and am an instrumentation specialist from my graduate school days in physical science so I have a few points of confidence to draw from.  Open source software has become a huge advantage to the RC users so, I suspect the same will be true with MegaSquirt despite that aviation is likely to represent a small segment for their audience.
>
> Rick
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:  http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>    
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:  http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html



--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:  http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

 


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