X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Todd Bartrim" Received: from mail-ig0-f178.google.com ([209.85.213.178] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.8) with ESMTPS id 8378425 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 03 Feb 2016 14:11:34 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.213.178; envelope-from=bartrim@gmail.com Received: by mail-ig0-f178.google.com with SMTP id 5so44106723igt.0 for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2016 11:11:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=/MIBIpesln5yBktwH+prsbitA8lpa9TMEiggzVE4bdc=; b=yCxmzIa3HMsFNdIc/gXqLIV5Tp1S6o87dHodce22FdmfIEU6PY+aCGpffJg0r1B9oT nWnD40Wpj5Ln+TagccTN0XTkwdaCQgGp6wIHhguJ/h1rGefEJgkYn0gdjN4xZn1J+sjX GEPPhM8rBjMHazyc7O9pIreQFbTrFLXfMvawq4JVBBrIHkjDAN1tMgxLJAZWdqPzsUK8 5XeOGMXOY0W2qLaLDsH9GsJap9hbXuhqcS0cUStuQhAkQDqm5H51EXqIsAABjOi9dB50 jDc+C2LMSaE/PvaunWAPrDvtXiq35xVYkKufbTHSqCiKc1/Y7XKul72ZtW271N4921aW E5Ug== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=/MIBIpesln5yBktwH+prsbitA8lpa9TMEiggzVE4bdc=; b=CJbHMGThtFIba1eIpRELzlA7QIfu4MSmGjwkyoAGC3fuDZbhA0CHMODdUfkgChELUx JF2oFukndU0MMNoyKMPoIcF1tLxQCJRne0SEWUIJiCVGf3ukgiypeDIItjU/kLfVgWCv WwqDcpEtIPZX9sjW2MdhsKkOBMKWuXbHW7WjzUVKtef2j+eyB1ScVVNjZ2h7DHNyeeQL sQxkXCquL6i6WvzTZfyVtHmK68TU4AM/IAdlcoHjjbv4VRSb8rCjfk+lsL2+LhNz0zwa +K+9kp9g0742mBWEElUVYDcUW/1W+g7n6RXlNEkA81B7oOUCTN2dMxgTgcLVsPV2rQjX K6eA== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOQ6wgrbT7EoHKgqpocWUQpmxapp9i40D/tCHHccXqRATM9ZV13wY31qcgPQ+n7SuDMNswZXMafm1pzqKQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.150.66 with SMTP id ug2mr23891176igb.33.1454526678802; Wed, 03 Feb 2016 11:11:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.36.111.213 with HTTP; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 11:11:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 11:11:18 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Welding Equipment Recomendations To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134df6801ab48052ae26281 --001a1134df6801ab48052ae26281 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hey Dave; I know I'm not the Todd you're asking about, but I decided to break my silence with a welder recommendation. I had a very hi end Miller AC/DC TIG welder at my disposal for years as a loaner from work, but then the first time someone other myself borrowed it, it was stolen and the company decided not to replace it, so I had to finally buy my own TIG machine. I nearly bought this one, http://www.eastwood.com/tig-welders-eastwood-tig-ac-dc-welder.html and I think it would be suitable for your needs. I didn't buy it because of our falling dollar and unrealistic shipping fees nearly doubled the price which brought it up to the same price as a better machine available locally. But I think for your needs it is likely a good fit and you can try it out and return if you don't like it. Now as to your lack of confidence in your ability to ever learn welding, I feel compelled to point out that you are a surgeon, a trade that surely requires a great deal of intelligence, confidence, and hand-eye coordination. No offence to any trade welders out there... but written on the bathroom wall here at work "what do you say to a guy with an IQ of 40??.... Nice Weld. Also in one of the stalls above the toilet paper roll it says "Welding tickets, take one" Yeah welders get a hard time here at work :-) Point is I'm certain that if you've mastered surgery then you've likely got the skill set required to become a decent hobby welder. Lots of info on Google/YouTube and practice, practice, practice. Now if you've got some structural integrity but your welds still look like crap then get a supply of these disks. https://www.walter.com/en_US/products/abrasives/blending/enduro-flex with these you can clean up almost the ugliest welds. Much better that a grinding disc or regular sanding disc. Even if your welds do look good these discs are great. I've got 3 grinders and one always has one of these discs on it while an other is always equipped with a Zip-Cut blade. These are probably the most used tools in my shop. Todd C-FSTB 13BRV9 Todd Bartrim On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 10:30 AM, David Leonard wrote: > You guys are Great! That completely answers the question and probably > some of the questions I will have once it get it home. > > Todd, are you back in San Diego? > > David Leonard > > On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Mark McClure > wrote: > >> A couple buddies and I got together and bought a used TiG on Craigslist >> after we burned through a $100 one. >> >> If I remember right we paid $700 for it but the products are 5000% better. >> >> Contractor liquidation sales pop about every month on Craigslist. And I >> kinda remember an A&P one popping on barnstormers. >> >> Mark >> >> > On Feb 3, 2016, at 6:02 PM, Tracy Hallock >> wrote: >> > >> > Dave, >> > >> > There's a lot of good advice here, and I probably don't have a >> > lot more to contribute, except that after seeing your rotary >> > installation, I know you can learn to weld. My advice is that >> > you absolutely, positively, do not purchase a $100 stick welder >> > from Harbor Freight, witt the hope that you can successfully >> > tack weld parts together. I had one for many years and was >> > never able to get the damn thing to consistently draw an arc. >> > >> > Imagine spending an hour with nothing but stick-pull, stick-pull, >> > stick-pull, never actually drawing an arc. Getting frustrated, >> > giving up for the day, going back out to the garage next week, >> > another half hour of stick, stick, stick, no arc. Try it a few months >> > later, a few years later. Like Tracy said, POS, please do not waste >> > your money. You'll only be frustrated and give up on welding. >> > >> > My first MIG welder was a $200 refurbished MIG 140 from that >> > other low-cost Chinese tool seller--Northern tools. At first it >> > worked pretty good, and I was able to join steel after a little >> > practice. Then it got erratic, and I spent a lot of time messing >> > with it, taking it apart, putting it back together, until I finally >> > gave up again. Again, trying to save some money, which was >> > totally gone with very little to show. >> > >> > Then I bought a $279 Harbor Freight 220v MIG welder on sale >> > for $179 that had pretty good reviews online. This welder worked >> > pretty good, and I would recommend it. >> > >> > After moving down to South Texas, and not having a 220v outlet, >> > I bought the 220v/110v Everlast PowerMTS 211Si MIG, TIG, Stick >> > welder for Christmas this year ($1100). I haven't done TIG yet (no >> > gas), but the MIG (flux core) and stick work great. I'm still not >> > great with the stick, but at least the problem is now my own skill, >> > and not the equipment. With the installation of a 220v outlet in >> > my garage, I how own two welders that work for me. >> > >> > I would suggest the Hobart 140 MIG as the easiest way to start, >> > with a fairly well-regarded lower-end welder that you should be >> > able to get for around $300. I know you can learn to weld with >> > this using flux-core. It just takes practice and maybe a little help >> > from someone that already know how to use it. >> > >> > One other thing, most everything is made in China, so having a >> > US-based manufacturer is no guarantee of not getting Chinese >> > equipment. >> > >> > Tracy (the other one). >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- From: David Leonard >> > Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 7:00 PM >> > To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Welding Equipment Recomendations >> > >> > Oh man, if gas is the easiest to learn then I am in big big trouble. >> > I once watched a set of videos on gas welding 4130 then spent a day >> > practicing. I never so much as joined to molicules of iron. Someone >> > told me that gas was the hardest and I should try his MIG machine. >> > After 4 hours of practice I got enough wire tacked down to be able to >> > limp the opject into a professional, who gave me a discount because it >> > was the best laugh he had in a long time. In fairness I was outside >> > in windy conditions, but weld integrity was the least of my concerns. >> > >> > I am pretty sure I will never be good enough to actually trust any of >> > my welds and anything of significance will have to go to my guy after >> > I tack it. So thank you every one for the great opinions and leads to >> > get me going. I guess I should also rephrase my question. What is >> > the easiest system to learn to do acceptable tack welds? When you say >> > 'stick welding' is that the same as some of the machines I see labeled >> > as 'arc'? I think that Lynn is right (he always is) that I should go >> > take a class. >> > >> > BTW, I cant spraypaint either. >> > >> > Thanks again >> > David Leonard >> > >> >> On 2/2/16, kenpowell wrote: >> >> I have to agree with Lynn here (no surprise) - o xy-acetylene is the >> easiest >> >> to master. I have an old Lincoln 225 AC stick machine that actually >> works >> >> pretty good with an easy-to-use 6013 rod. I also have a Hobart 140 mig >> that >> >> I have just never been able to conquer - I end up firing up the o >> >> xy-acetylene if the weld matters. Lastly, I love my o xy-acetylene >> torches. >> >> You can create the puddle and control it with either hand speed or >> flame >> >> distance from the puddle. Very easy to learn and to use. The biggest >> >> downside is welding gets to be really HOT in the summer months! I >> still want >> >> a set of torches from the Tinman: https://www.tinmantech.com/ >> >> >> >> Ken Powell >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> >> >> From: "Lehanover" >> >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 1:46:02 PM >> >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Welding Equipment Recomendations >> >> >> >> Try to take a course at a local trade school. Best option. I have gas >> >> (Oxyacetylene) and a 600 amp Hobart >> >> TIG machine. I only use Argon as a shielding gas. I sold my wire welder >> >> years ago. Good for building trailers tacking on quarter panels and >> similar. >> >> I like gas welding. Slow and easy. Also brazing and shaping and bending >> >> steel parts. Gas welding is the most versatile of all forms. My mother >> could >> >> weld aluminum with paste flux and blue glasses. >> >> Wire feeders are difficult to master when starting from scratch. If it >> runs >> >> on 110 volts it is just about a toy welder. Thin steels nearly >> horizontal >> >> only. Takes lots of practice to even get some spot welds going. A stick >> >> welder is actually easier to learn the basics on. Use match tip 6013 >> sticks >> >> and build your first trailer. >> >> The key is to get an instructor to teach you the many welding systems >> and >> >> how each has its good and bad points. The end game is a big TIG machine >> >> where any metal, any thickness can be done. The same machine will also >> do >> >> stick welding AC or DC. Straight or reverse polarity. And the most >> critical >> >> aircraft work. >> >> The heat is controlled by a foot pedal and it is a joy to use. Much >> welding >> >> training on the Internet. >> >> Lynn E. Hanover >> >> In a message dated 2/2/2016 2:06:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: >> >> >> >> >> >> I have a number of small welding projects around the home and hangar >> >> that are starting to accumulate. I am thinking about getting one of >> >> those $100 welders from Harbor Freight but I have almost no welding >> >> experience. There is plenty of info on the web but I thought I would >> >> put the question to my rotary friends. >> >> >> >> Given that I just want to be able to do occasional projects around the >> >> home and airplane, what type of welding equipment would be best for me >> >> and what do you consider the minimum power level that is acceptable? >> >> I will skip the desire to do anything with aluminum. I am thinking >> >> that Arc or Flux Core would be easiest. I tried to weld with >> >> auto-feed MIG and I just couldn't keep up with the wire. Also, most of >> >> the airplane projects are too difficult to keep any gas bubble in >> >> place. >> >> >> >> Thoughts? >> >> >> >> David Leonard >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> >> Archive and UnSub: >> >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > >> > -- >> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> > Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > >> > -- >> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> > Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > > --001a1134df6801ab48052ae26281 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey Dave;=C2=A0
I know I'm not the Todd you're= asking about, but I decided to break my silence with a welder recommendati= on.=C2=A0

I had a very hi end Miller AC/DC TIG wel= der at my disposal for years as a loaner from work, but then the first time= someone other myself borrowed it, it was stolen and the company decided no= t to replace it, so I had to finally buy my own TIG machine. I nearly bough= t this one,
and I think it would be suitable for = your needs. I didn't buy it because of our falling dollar and unrealist= ic shipping fees nearly doubled the price which brought it up to the same p= rice as a better machine available locally. But I think for your needs it i= s likely a good fit and you can try it out and return if you don't like= it.

Now as to your lack of confidence in your abi= lity to ever learn welding, I feel compelled to point out that you are a su= rgeon, a trade that surely requires a great deal of intelligence, confidenc= e, and hand-eye coordination. No offence to any trade welders out there... = but written on the bathroom wall here at work "what do you say to a gu= y with an IQ of 40??.... Nice Weld. Also in one of the stalls above the toi= let paper roll it says "Welding tickets, take one" Yeah welders g= et a hard time here at work :-)
Point is I'm certain that if = you've mastered surgery then you've likely got the skill set requir= ed to become a decent hobby welder. Lots of info on Google/YouTube and prac= tice, practice, practice.

Now if you've got so= me structural integrity but your welds still look like crap then get a supp= ly of these disks.
=C2=A0with these you can cle= an up almost the ugliest welds. Much better that a grinding disc or regular= sanding disc.
Even if your welds do look good these discs are gr= eat. I've got 3 grinders and one always has one of these discs on it wh= ile an other is always equipped with a Zip-Cut blade. These are probably th= e most used tools in my shop.

Todd
C-FST= B
13BRV9

=
Todd Bartrim

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 10:30 AM, David Leona= rd <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
You guys are Great!=C2=A0 That com= pletely answers the question and probably some of the questions I will have= once it get it home.

Todd, are you back in San Diego?

David Leonard

On = Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Mark McClure <flyrotary@lancaironli= ne.net> wrote:
A couple bud= dies and I got together and bought a used TiG on Craigslist after we burned= through a $100 one.

If I remember right we paid $700 for it but the products are 5000% better.<= br>
Contractor liquidation sales pop about every month on Craigslist. And I kin= da remember an A&P one popping on barnstormers.

Mark

> On Feb 3, 2016, at 6:02 PM, Tracy Hallock <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= ; wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> There's a lot of good advice here, and I probably don't have a=
> lot more to contribute, except that after seeing your rotary
> installation, I know you can learn to weld.=C2=A0 My advice is that > you absolutely, positively, do not purchase a $100 stick welder
> from Harbor Freight, witt the hope that you can successfully
> tack weld parts together.=C2=A0 I had one for many years and was
> never able to get the damn thing to consistently draw an arc.
>
> Imagine spending an hour with nothing but stick-pull, stick-pull,
> stick-pull, never=C2=A0 actually drawing an arc.=C2=A0 Getting frustra= ted,
> giving up for the day, going back out to the garage next week,
> another half hour of stick, stick, stick, no arc.=C2=A0 Try it a few m= onths
> later, a few years later.=C2=A0 Like Tracy said, POS, please do not wa= ste
> your money.=C2=A0 You'll only be frustrated and give up on welding= .
>
> My first MIG welder was a $200 refurbished MIG 140 from that
> other low-cost Chinese tool seller--Northern tools.=C2=A0 At first it<= br> > worked pretty good, and I was able to join steel after a little
> practice.=C2=A0 Then it got erratic, and I spent a lot of time messing=
> with it, taking it apart, putting it back together, until I finally > gave up again.=C2=A0 Again, trying to save some money, which was
> totally gone with very little to show.
>
> Then I bought a $279 Harbor Freight 220v MIG welder on sale
> for $179 that had pretty good reviews online.=C2=A0 This welder worked=
> pretty good, and I would recommend it.
>
> After moving down to South Texas, and not having a 220v outlet,
> I bought the 220v/110v Everlast PowerMTS 211Si MIG, TIG, Stick
> welder for Christmas this year ($1100).=C2=A0 I haven't done TIG y= et (no
> gas), but the MIG (flux core) and stick work great.=C2=A0 I'm stil= l not
> great with the stick, but at least the problem is now my own skill, > and not the equipment.=C2=A0 With the installation of a 220v outlet in=
> my garage, I how own two welders that work for me.
>
> I would suggest the Hobart 140 MIG as the easiest way to start,
> with a fairly well-regarded lower-end welder that you should be
> able to get for around $300.=C2=A0 I know you can learn to weld with > this using flux-core.=C2=A0 It just takes practice and maybe a little = help
> from someone that already know how to use it.
>
> One other thing, most everything is made in China, so having a
> US-based manufacturer is no guarantee of not getting Chinese
> equipment.
>
> Tracy (the other one).
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: David Leonard
> Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 7:00 PM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Welding Equipment Recomendations
>
> Oh man, if gas is the easiest to learn then I am in big big trouble. > I once watched a set of videos on gas welding 4130 then spent a day > practicing.=C2=A0 I never so much as joined to molicules of iron.=C2= =A0 Someone
> told me that gas was the hardest and I should try his MIG machine.
> After 4 hours of practice I got enough wire tacked down to be able to<= br> > limp the opject into a professional, who gave me a discount because it=
> was the best laugh he had in a long time.=C2=A0 In fairness I was outs= ide
> in windy conditions, but weld integrity was the least of my concerns.<= br> >
> I am pretty sure I will never be good enough to actually trust any of<= br> > my welds and anything of significance will have to go to my guy after<= br> > I tack it.=C2=A0 So thank you every one for the great opinions and lea= ds to
> get me going.=C2=A0 I guess I should also rephrase my question.=C2=A0 = What is
> the easiest system to learn to do acceptable tack welds?=C2=A0 When yo= u say
> 'stick welding' is that the same as some of the machines I see= labeled
> as 'arc'?=C2=A0 I think that Lynn is right (he always is) that= I should go
> take a class.
>
> BTW, I cant spraypaint either.
>
> Thanks again
> David Leonard
>
>> On 2/2/16, kenpowell <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>> I have to agree with Lynn here (no surprise) - o xy-acetylene is t= he easiest
>> to master. I have an old Lincoln 225 AC stick machine that actuall= y works
>> pretty good with an easy-to-use 6013 rod. I also have a Hobart 140= mig that
>> I have just never been able to conquer - I end up firing up the o<= br> >> xy-acetylene if the weld matters. Lastly, I love my o xy-acetylene= torches.
>> You can create the puddle and control it with either hand speed or= flame
>> distance from the puddle. Very easy to learn and to use. The bigge= st
>> downside is welding gets to be really HOT in the summer months! I = still want
>> a set of torches from the Tinman: https://www.tinmantech.com/
>>
>> Ken Powell
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: "Lehanover" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
>> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 1:46:02 PM
>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Welding Equipment Recomendations
>>
>> Try to take a course at a local trade school. Best option. I have = gas
>> (Oxyacetylene) and a 600 amp Hobart
>> TIG machine. I only use Argon as a shielding gas. I sold my wire w= elder
>> years ago. Good for building trailers tacking on quarter panels an= d similar.
>> I like gas welding. Slow and easy. Also brazing and shaping and be= nding
>> steel parts. Gas welding is the most versatile of all forms. My mo= ther could
>> weld aluminum with paste flux and blue glasses.
>> Wire feeders are difficult to master when starting from scratch. I= f it runs
>> on 110 volts it is just about a toy welder. Thin steels nearly hor= izontal
>> only. Takes lots of practice to even get some spot welds going. A = stick
>> welder is actually easier to learn the basics on. Use match tip 60= 13 sticks
>> and build your first trailer.
>> The key is to get an instructor to teach you the many welding syst= ems and
>> how each has its good and bad points. The end game is a big TIG ma= chine
>> where any metal, any thickness can be done. The same machine will = also do
>> stick welding AC or DC. Straight or reverse polarity. And the most= critical
>> aircraft work.
>> The heat is controlled by a foot pedal and it is a joy to use. Muc= h welding
>> training on the Internet.
>> Lynn E. Hanover
>> In a message dated 2/2/2016 2:06:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> f= lyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:
>>
>>
>> I have a number of small welding projects around the home and hang= ar
>> that are starting to accumulate. I am thinking about getting one o= f
>> those $100 welders from Harbor Freight but I have almost no weldin= g
>> experience. There is plenty of info on the web but I thought I wou= ld
>> put the question to my rotary friends.
>>
>> Given that I just want to be able to do occasional projects around= the
>> home and airplane, what type of welding equipment would be best fo= r me
>> and what do you consider the minimum power level that is acceptabl= e?
>> I will skip the desire to do anything with aluminum. I am thinking=
>> that Arc or Flux Core would be easiest. I tried to weld with
>> auto-feed MIG and I just couldn't keep up with the wire. Also,= most of
>> the airplane projects are too difficult to keep any gas bubble in<= br> >> place.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> David Leonard
>>
>> --
>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> Archive and UnSub:
>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/= lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
> --
> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancai= ronline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
> --
> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http:/= /mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

--
Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail= .lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


--001a1134df6801ab48052ae26281--