X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "David Leonard" Received: from mail-io0-f176.google.com ([209.85.223.176] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.8) with ESMTPS id 8378263 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 03 Feb 2016 13:30:55 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.223.176; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by mail-io0-f176.google.com with SMTP id 9so65995203iom.1 for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2016 10:30:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=kzLuTL6Eu9CZnpP7ouaJT+A0hKwypOpFyrI8X6sVg9M=; b=eDuVM39DGgkTxRCTKE9W1OcWkdUUQVFYh3m36TDbcri7Jp/FuZL+ZdJ7EymYt3K13A aMONywULVpq78kF6qv57z/t0aL7Hy4O4yNtpixMRFFK8nWfJgt7RDc1Ez3Y+PkY1Q8WW p8hmJGe98TQ4n78I5XfelCQRVOQiSezvrmCUoJHEtNcdRiHZWf7bRqSNEwD/9AbWwQX2 uOhMM+Fp2hQGU/N83wyC60ZeWaiBXK1dCYLFr/7F5NtXcJFjS5EYSqJis9Cud2W/nOcG mFhhnzKnZkPULIXYIUIwcGRSbpopBfTBuICt9+9pclH75Sk/J7usYV3AgeuxNSCihbg6 xeHA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=kzLuTL6Eu9CZnpP7ouaJT+A0hKwypOpFyrI8X6sVg9M=; b=HWTn2RM7EThDMsFm3wBRlGObNl+DSBLjxKAMKlprS6n4hCb1ii29XMNE7jkdiMb3Qs TzIPpehpCHt7jQY76ZDmvYc1JG2xR2UULhe63F2NllGW3JtRgGcST1L3rmv6aa146tvN YnX7FYggWAFoCgGoVIkPJ+8bSab9CUifzk1sEwYxWgmf5qrh01nL+VXuj4fSUqv3e6XZ gBoeJSEDpNURckl6SoclHUlpcR/ec/fpxFXEVK8vtrDpnT2FG5rUmiLPEAJXcLB0cBMv id0ZbpBOi4Sz7hF+F2MXrcyrEW+7gvL8oebj8v2Cpz7W8FgKADimQQgC5KiYo+wmocdu z93w== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOQJYZcw3TxrJw1uWqbMVDHePNZdqdNYCcGlPxMuBYz1VHfB4PZjkiZ5nWZ6nqgVPWTjHBo1Q3YYENnHuQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.9.106 with SMTP id j103mr4913401ioi.104.1454524238859; Wed, 03 Feb 2016 10:30:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.79.69.129 with HTTP; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 10:30:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 10:30:38 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Welding Equipment Recomendations To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113dea3c931749052ae1d022 --001a113dea3c931749052ae1d022 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 You guys are Great! That completely answers the question and probably some of the questions I will have once it get it home. Todd, are you back in San Diego? David Leonard On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Mark McClure wrote: > A couple buddies and I got together and bought a used TiG on Craigslist > after we burned through a $100 one. > > If I remember right we paid $700 for it but the products are 5000% better. > > Contractor liquidation sales pop about every month on Craigslist. And I > kinda remember an A&P one popping on barnstormers. > > Mark > > > On Feb 3, 2016, at 6:02 PM, Tracy Hallock > wrote: > > > > Dave, > > > > There's a lot of good advice here, and I probably don't have a > > lot more to contribute, except that after seeing your rotary > > installation, I know you can learn to weld. My advice is that > > you absolutely, positively, do not purchase a $100 stick welder > > from Harbor Freight, witt the hope that you can successfully > > tack weld parts together. I had one for many years and was > > never able to get the damn thing to consistently draw an arc. > > > > Imagine spending an hour with nothing but stick-pull, stick-pull, > > stick-pull, never actually drawing an arc. Getting frustrated, > > giving up for the day, going back out to the garage next week, > > another half hour of stick, stick, stick, no arc. Try it a few months > > later, a few years later. Like Tracy said, POS, please do not waste > > your money. You'll only be frustrated and give up on welding. > > > > My first MIG welder was a $200 refurbished MIG 140 from that > > other low-cost Chinese tool seller--Northern tools. At first it > > worked pretty good, and I was able to join steel after a little > > practice. Then it got erratic, and I spent a lot of time messing > > with it, taking it apart, putting it back together, until I finally > > gave up again. Again, trying to save some money, which was > > totally gone with very little to show. > > > > Then I bought a $279 Harbor Freight 220v MIG welder on sale > > for $179 that had pretty good reviews online. This welder worked > > pretty good, and I would recommend it. > > > > After moving down to South Texas, and not having a 220v outlet, > > I bought the 220v/110v Everlast PowerMTS 211Si MIG, TIG, Stick > > welder for Christmas this year ($1100). I haven't done TIG yet (no > > gas), but the MIG (flux core) and stick work great. I'm still not > > great with the stick, but at least the problem is now my own skill, > > and not the equipment. With the installation of a 220v outlet in > > my garage, I how own two welders that work for me. > > > > I would suggest the Hobart 140 MIG as the easiest way to start, > > with a fairly well-regarded lower-end welder that you should be > > able to get for around $300. I know you can learn to weld with > > this using flux-core. It just takes practice and maybe a little help > > from someone that already know how to use it. > > > > One other thing, most everything is made in China, so having a > > US-based manufacturer is no guarantee of not getting Chinese > > equipment. > > > > Tracy (the other one). > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- From: David Leonard > > Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 7:00 PM > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Welding Equipment Recomendations > > > > Oh man, if gas is the easiest to learn then I am in big big trouble. > > I once watched a set of videos on gas welding 4130 then spent a day > > practicing. I never so much as joined to molicules of iron. Someone > > told me that gas was the hardest and I should try his MIG machine. > > After 4 hours of practice I got enough wire tacked down to be able to > > limp the opject into a professional, who gave me a discount because it > > was the best laugh he had in a long time. In fairness I was outside > > in windy conditions, but weld integrity was the least of my concerns. > > > > I am pretty sure I will never be good enough to actually trust any of > > my welds and anything of significance will have to go to my guy after > > I tack it. So thank you every one for the great opinions and leads to > > get me going. I guess I should also rephrase my question. What is > > the easiest system to learn to do acceptable tack welds? When you say > > 'stick welding' is that the same as some of the machines I see labeled > > as 'arc'? I think that Lynn is right (he always is) that I should go > > take a class. > > > > BTW, I cant spraypaint either. > > > > Thanks again > > David Leonard > > > >> On 2/2/16, kenpowell wrote: > >> I have to agree with Lynn here (no surprise) - o xy-acetylene is the > easiest > >> to master. I have an old Lincoln 225 AC stick machine that actually > works > >> pretty good with an easy-to-use 6013 rod. I also have a Hobart 140 mig > that > >> I have just never been able to conquer - I end up firing up the o > >> xy-acetylene if the weld matters. Lastly, I love my o xy-acetylene > torches. > >> You can create the puddle and control it with either hand speed or flame > >> distance from the puddle. Very easy to learn and to use. The biggest > >> downside is welding gets to be really HOT in the summer months! I still > want > >> a set of torches from the Tinman: https://www.tinmantech.com/ > >> > >> Ken Powell > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> > >> From: "Lehanover" > >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 1:46:02 PM > >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Welding Equipment Recomendations > >> > >> Try to take a course at a local trade school. Best option. I have gas > >> (Oxyacetylene) and a 600 amp Hobart > >> TIG machine. I only use Argon as a shielding gas. I sold my wire welder > >> years ago. Good for building trailers tacking on quarter panels and > similar. > >> I like gas welding. Slow and easy. Also brazing and shaping and bending > >> steel parts. Gas welding is the most versatile of all forms. My mother > could > >> weld aluminum with paste flux and blue glasses. > >> Wire feeders are difficult to master when starting from scratch. If it > runs > >> on 110 volts it is just about a toy welder. Thin steels nearly > horizontal > >> only. Takes lots of practice to even get some spot welds going. A stick > >> welder is actually easier to learn the basics on. Use match tip 6013 > sticks > >> and build your first trailer. > >> The key is to get an instructor to teach you the many welding systems > and > >> how each has its good and bad points. The end game is a big TIG machine > >> where any metal, any thickness can be done. The same machine will also > do > >> stick welding AC or DC. Straight or reverse polarity. And the most > critical > >> aircraft work. > >> The heat is controlled by a foot pedal and it is a joy to use. Much > welding > >> training on the Internet. > >> Lynn E. Hanover > >> In a message dated 2/2/2016 2:06:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: > >> > >> > >> I have a number of small welding projects around the home and hangar > >> that are starting to accumulate. I am thinking about getting one of > >> those $100 welders from Harbor Freight but I have almost no welding > >> experience. There is plenty of info on the web but I thought I would > >> put the question to my rotary friends. > >> > >> Given that I just want to be able to do occasional projects around the > >> home and airplane, what type of welding equipment would be best for me > >> and what do you consider the minimum power level that is acceptable? > >> I will skip the desire to do anything with aluminum. I am thinking > >> that Arc or Flux Core would be easiest. I tried to weld with > >> auto-feed MIG and I just couldn't keep up with the wire. Also, most of > >> the airplane projects are too difficult to keep any gas bubble in > >> place. > >> > >> Thoughts? > >> > >> David Leonard > >> > >> -- > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >> Archive and UnSub: > >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --001a113dea3c931749052ae1d022 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You guys are Great!=C2=A0 That completely answers the ques= tion and probably some of the questions I will have once it get it home.
Todd, are you back in San Diego?

= David Leonard

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Mark McClure <= flyrotary@= lancaironline.net> wrote:
A= couple buddies and I got together and bought a used TiG on Craigslist afte= r we burned through a $100 one.

If I remember right we paid $700 for it but the products are 5000% better.<= br>
Contractor liquidation sales pop about every month on Craigslist. And I kin= da remember an A&P one popping on barnstormers.

Mark

> On Feb 3, 2016, at 6:02 PM, Tracy Hallock <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> There's a lot of good advice here, and I probably don't have a=
> lot more to contribute, except that after seeing your rotary
> installation, I know you can learn to weld.=C2=A0 My advice is that > you absolutely, positively, do not purchase a $100 stick welder
> from Harbor Freight, witt the hope that you can successfully
> tack weld parts together.=C2=A0 I had one for many years and was
> never able to get the damn thing to consistently draw an arc.
>
> Imagine spending an hour with nothing but stick-pull, stick-pull,
> stick-pull, never=C2=A0 actually drawing an arc.=C2=A0 Getting frustra= ted,
> giving up for the day, going back out to the garage next week,
> another half hour of stick, stick, stick, no arc.=C2=A0 Try it a few m= onths
> later, a few years later.=C2=A0 Like Tracy said, POS, please do not wa= ste
> your money.=C2=A0 You'll only be frustrated and give up on welding= .
>
> My first MIG welder was a $200 refurbished MIG 140 from that
> other low-cost Chinese tool seller--Northern tools.=C2=A0 At first it<= br> > worked pretty good, and I was able to join steel after a little
> practice.=C2=A0 Then it got erratic, and I spent a lot of time messing=
> with it, taking it apart, putting it back together, until I finally > gave up again.=C2=A0 Again, trying to save some money, which was
> totally gone with very little to show.
>
> Then I bought a $279 Harbor Freight 220v MIG welder on sale
> for $179 that had pretty good reviews online.=C2=A0 This welder worked=
> pretty good, and I would recommend it.
>
> After moving down to South Texas, and not having a 220v outlet,
> I bought the 220v/110v Everlast PowerMTS 211Si MIG, TIG, Stick
> welder for Christmas this year ($1100).=C2=A0 I haven't done TIG y= et (no
> gas), but the MIG (flux core) and stick work great.=C2=A0 I'm stil= l not
> great with the stick, but at least the problem is now my own skill, > and not the equipment.=C2=A0 With the installation of a 220v outlet in=
> my garage, I how own two welders that work for me.
>
> I would suggest the Hobart 140 MIG as the easiest way to start,
> with a fairly well-regarded lower-end welder that you should be
> able to get for around $300.=C2=A0 I know you can learn to weld with > this using flux-core.=C2=A0 It just takes practice and maybe a little = help
> from someone that already know how to use it.
>
> One other thing, most everything is made in China, so having a
> US-based manufacturer is no guarantee of not getting Chinese
> equipment.
>
> Tracy (the other one).
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: David Leonard
> Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 7:00 PM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Welding Equipment Recomendations
>
> Oh man, if gas is the easiest to learn then I am in big big trouble. > I once watched a set of videos on gas welding 4130 then spent a day > practicing.=C2=A0 I never so much as joined to molicules of iron.=C2= =A0 Someone
> told me that gas was the hardest and I should try his MIG machine.
> After 4 hours of practice I got enough wire tacked down to be able to<= br> > limp the opject into a professional, who gave me a discount because it=
> was the best laugh he had in a long time.=C2=A0 In fairness I was outs= ide
> in windy conditions, but weld integrity was the least of my concerns.<= br> >
> I am pretty sure I will never be good enough to actually trust any of<= br> > my welds and anything of significance will have to go to my guy after<= br> > I tack it.=C2=A0 So thank you every one for the great opinions and lea= ds to
> get me going.=C2=A0 I guess I should also rephrase my question.=C2=A0 = What is
> the easiest system to learn to do acceptable tack welds?=C2=A0 When yo= u say
> 'stick welding' is that the same as some of the machines I see= labeled
> as 'arc'?=C2=A0 I think that Lynn is right (he always is) that= I should go
> take a class.
>
> BTW, I cant spraypaint either.
>
> Thanks again
> David Leonard
>
>> On 2/2/16, kenpowell <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>> I have to agree with Lynn here (no surprise) - o xy-acetylene is t= he easiest
>> to master. I have an old Lincoln 225 AC stick machine that actuall= y works
>> pretty good with an easy-to-use 6013 rod. I also have a Hobart 140= mig that
>> I have just never been able to conquer - I end up firing up the o<= br> >> xy-acetylene if the weld matters. Lastly, I love my o xy-acetylene= torches.
>> You can create the puddle and control it with either hand speed or= flame
>> distance from the puddle. Very easy to learn and to use. The bigge= st
>> downside is welding gets to be really HOT in the summer months! I = still want
>> a set of torches from the Tinman: https://www.tinmantech.com/
>>
>> Ken Powell
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: "Lehanover" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
>> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 1:46:02 PM
>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Welding Equipment Recomendations
>>
>> Try to take a course at a local trade school. Best option. I have = gas
>> (Oxyacetylene) and a 600 amp Hobart
>> TIG machine. I only use Argon as a shielding gas. I sold my wire w= elder
>> years ago. Good for building trailers tacking on quarter panels an= d similar.
>> I like gas welding. Slow and easy. Also brazing and shaping and be= nding
>> steel parts. Gas welding is the most versatile of all forms. My mo= ther could
>> weld aluminum with paste flux and blue glasses.
>> Wire feeders are difficult to master when starting from scratch. I= f it runs
>> on 110 volts it is just about a toy welder. Thin steels nearly hor= izontal
>> only. Takes lots of practice to even get some spot welds going. A = stick
>> welder is actually easier to learn the basics on. Use match tip 60= 13 sticks
>> and build your first trailer.
>> The key is to get an instructor to teach you the many welding syst= ems and
>> how each has its good and bad points. The end game is a big TIG ma= chine
>> where any metal, any thickness can be done. The same machine will = also do
>> stick welding AC or DC. Straight or reverse polarity. And the most= critical
>> aircraft work.
>> The heat is controlled by a foot pedal and it is a joy to use. Muc= h welding
>> training on the Internet.
>> Lynn E. Hanover
>> In a message dated 2/2/2016 2:06:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> flyrotary@lancairon= line.net writes:
>>
>>
>> I have a number of small welding projects around the home and hang= ar
>> that are starting to accumulate. I am thinking about getting one o= f
>> those $100 welders from Harbor Freight but I have almost no weldin= g
>> experience. There is plenty of info on the web but I thought I wou= ld
>> put the question to my rotary friends.
>>
>> Given that I just want to be able to do occasional projects around= the
>> home and airplane, what type of welding equipment would be best fo= r me
>> and what do you consider the minimum power level that is acceptabl= e?
>> I will skip the desire to do anything with aluminum. I am thinking=
>> that Arc or Flux Core would be easiest. I tried to weld with
>> auto-feed MIG and I just couldn't keep up with the wire. Also,= most of
>> the airplane projects are too difficult to keep any gas bubble in<= br> >> place.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> David Leonard
>>
>> --
>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> Archive and UnSub:
>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/= lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
> --
> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancai= ronline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
> --
> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http:/= /mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

--
Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail= .lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

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