X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Bill Bradburry" Received: from vms173017pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.17] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.8) with ESMTPS id 8357937 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 17:13:02 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.46.173.17; envelope-from=bbradburry@verizon.net Received: from Desktop ([173.71.14.135]) by vms173017.mailsrvcs.net (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7.0.5.32.0 64bit (built Jul 16 2014)) with ESMTPA id <0O1K0045DZ0ZRO20@vms173017.mailsrvcs.net> for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 16:12:36 -0600 (CST) X-CMAE-Score: 0 X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=btqxfxui c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=YsSROtz1JO3+GnD2bqMDlQ==:117 a=7aQ_Q-yQQ-AA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=OOjVbOMtkrJ1_dSM5BsA:9 a=OAncTvr4cb9Bwlea:21 a=kl3a35zLf5LEn7EZ:21 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=PQ3g5_LrR_-K0vVFb28A:9 a=nXQg6Gha3cKPSMKp:21 a=mY8tgCJFPkszGSgb:21 a=dJIe0zg_plazKKXg:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=ZHUsY8zHUz0Vp2Os_2YA:9 a=1Vq_FK4TplAA:10 To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-reply-to: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: parts upgrade; was: What do you think may be happening? Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 16:12:46 -0600 Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01D15854.64F378F0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: AdFYZzS6TOEbLxG7SOiTYtpHx//0rgAHjr2g X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01D15854.64F378F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0004_01D15854.64F378F0" ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01D15854.64F378F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff. This is pretty helpful. I am going to imbed some comments in your msg below. _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 12:27 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: parts upgrade; was: What do you think may be happening? It means there is a problem but not necessarily the EC2. If it is not the EC2, then the SEC injectors are either not powered, not receiving fuel, obstructed or simply faulty. I WAS ABLE TO TURN OFF THE PRIMARY INJECTORS AT 22 INCHES WITHOUT THE ENGINE DYING. I THINK THE SECONDARY INJECTORS ARE WORKING RELATIVE TO ALL THE ABOVE. If the EC2 is at fault it could be many things: 1) Pin 30 state is not being detected internally. THIS IS POSSIBLE, HOWEVER THERE ARE CHANGES THAT WOULD INDICATE THE SIGNAL IS GETTING THERE. 2) The MP sensor (hose or device) to the active controller is defective. THE EC-2 GOES FROM STAGED TO UNSTAGED AT THE PROPER MANIFOLD PRESSURE. 3) The SEC injector drive circuits within the EC2 are faulty. I THINK THE INJECTORS WOULD NOT COME ON LINE IF THIS WERE THE CASE. MORE LIKELY THE SYSTEM THAT ENGAGES THE SECONDARY WHEN THE EC-2 IS STAGED. 4) The active controller is not properly seated in its socket. I HAVE NEVER OPENED THE CASE. Have you tried all the previously-mentioned checks using controller B? NO. TRYING THIS ON CONTROLLER B IS THE NEXT TEST. I can't think of anything else . DON'T STOP NOW YOU ARE ON A ROLL!! :>) Jeff From: Bill Bradburry Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: parts upgrade; was: What do you think may be happening? Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 11:38:51 -0600 To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' Message Header Undecoded Message Jeff, If you are below staging, ~1400 rpm and you independently enable CS, PRI and SEC injectors should deliver fuel because EC2 knows both have power ON and your MP is low - this is Cold Start region. If, Changing your scenario above to say "independently disable primary injectors which will shut them off, and has shown to ground the pin 30, which turns on cold start", if fuel flow stops and the engine dies does this mean the EC-2 has a problem? Bill From: Jeff Whaley Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 10:41 AM To: 'Charlie England' Subject: RE: parts upgrade; was: What do you think may be happening? Bill: The answer to your question is the EC2 only cares what the pin 30 state IS, in conjunction with which injectors are being supplied power plus what your MP and RPM are. With the DPDT switches you are always disabling one set of injectors and enabling Cold Start simultaneously - if they are wired correctly, as per EC2 manual. If you are below staging, ~1400 rpm and you disable the SEC injectors/enable CS, nothing should happen because the EC2 knows you have turned OFF power to the SEC and your MP is low. If you are below staging, ~1400 rpm and you independently enable CS, PRI and SEC injectors should deliver fuel because EC2 knows both have power ON and your MP is low - this is Cold Start region. There really is no reason to go above staging (high MP/RPM region) to prove the CS feature in conjunction with MP, RPM and INJ power are working correctly. Jeff From: Bill Bradburry Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: parts upgrade; was: What do you think may be happening? Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 15:07:58 -0600 To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' Message Header Undecoded Message Steve, Ok, when you turn on the disable switches, they ground the pin 30 input on the EC-2 to the case of the EC-2. When you turn on cold start, you ground the pin 30 to the case. How the heck does the EC-2 know the difference so that it can act differently??? Bill This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01D15854.64F378F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jeff.

This is pretty helpful.  I am = going to imbed some comments in your msg below.

 

From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January = 26, 2016 12:27 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = parts upgrade; was: What do you think may be happening?

 

It means there is a problem but = not necessarily the EC2.  If it is not the EC2, then the SEC injectors = are either not powered, not receiving fuel, obstructed or simply = faulty.

I WAS ABLE TO TURN OFF THE PRIMARY INJECTORS AT 22 INCHES WITHOUT THE ENGINE DYING.  I THINK THE = SECONDARY INJECTORS ARE WORKING RELATIVE TO ALL THE ABOVE.

If the EC2 is at fault it could = be many things: 1) Pin 30 state is not being detected internally. =

THIS IS POSSIBLE, HOWEVER THERE ARE CHANGES THAT WOULD INDICATE THE SIGNAL IS GETTING = THERE.

2) The MP sensor (hose or = device) to the active controller is defective.

THE EC-2 GOES FROM STAGED TO = UNSTAGED AT THE PROPER MANIFOLD PRESSURE.

3) The SEC injector drive = circuits within the EC2 are faulty.

I THINK THE INJECTORS WOULD NOT = COME ON LINE IF THIS WERE THE CASE.  MORE LIKELY THE SYSTEM THAT =  ENGAGES THE SECONDARY WHEN THE EC-2 IS STAGED.

 4) The active controller = is not properly seated in its socket.

I HAVE NEVER OPENED THE = CASE.

Have you tried all the previously-mentioned checks using controller = B?

NO. TRYING THIS ON CONTROLLER B IS = THE NEXT TEST.

I can’t think of anything = else …  

DON’T STOP NOW YOU ARE ON A ROLL!!   :>)

 Jeff

 <= /p>

From:

Bill Bradburry = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

Subject:

RE: [FlyRotary] Re: parts upgrade; was: What do you think may be = happening?

Date:

Tue, 26 Jan 2016 11:38:51 -0600

To:

'Rotary motors in aircraft' <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

3D"Message

3D"Undecoded

Jeff,

 If you are below staging, ~1400 rpm and you independently = enable CS, PRI and SEC injectors should deliver fuel because EC2 knows both have = power ON and your MP is low – this is Cold Start = region.

 If,

Changing your scenario above to say “independently = disable primary injectors which will shut them off, and has shown to ground = the pin 30, which turns on cold start”,  if fuel flow stops and the = engine dies does this mean the EC-2 has a problem?

 Bill

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

From: Jeff Whaley
Sent: Tuesday, January = 26, 2016 10:41 AM
To: 'Charlie England'
Subject: RE: parts = upgrade; was: What do you think may be happening?

 

Bill:

The answer to your question is = the EC2 only cares what the pin 30 state IS, in conjunction with which injectors = are being supplied power plus what your MP and RPM = are.

With the DPDT switches you are = always disabling one set of injectors and enabling Cold Start simultaneously = – if they are wired correctly, as per EC2 = manual.

If you are below staging, ~1400 = rpm and you disable the SEC injectors/enable CS, nothing should happen because = the EC2 knows you have turned OFF power to the SEC and your MP is = low.

If you are below staging, ~1400 = rpm and you independently enable CS, PRI and SEC injectors should deliver fuel = because EC2 knows both have power ON and your MP is low – this is Cold = Start region.

There really is no reason to go = above staging (high MP/RPM region) to prove the CS feature in conjunction with = MP, RPM and INJ power are working correctly.

Jeff =

 <= /p>

From:

Bill Bradburry <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

Subject:

RE: [FlyRotary] Re: parts upgrade; was: What do you think may be = happening?

Date:

Mon, 25 Jan 2016 15:07:58 -0600

To:

'Rotary motors in aircraft' <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

3D"Message

3D"Undecoded

Steve,

 Ok, when you turn on the disable switches, they = ground the pin 30 input on the EC-2 to the case of the EC-2.  When you turn = on cold start, you ground the pin 30 to the case.  How the heck does the = EC-2 know the difference so that it can act = differently???

 Bill

 <= /p>

This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the = addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in = error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal = records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. =

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