X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Tracy Crook" Received: from mail-yk0-f172.google.com ([209.85.160.172] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.8) with ESMTPS id 8353298 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 25 Jan 2016 07:37:30 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.172; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by mail-yk0-f172.google.com with SMTP id k129so159548009yke.0 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 2016 04:37:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:mime-version:to:from:subject:date:importance:in-reply-to :references:content-type; bh=tyNEXjGGvgxhEB0w9HhePQIK4l/S83QQOZV+nXtQzl8=; b=rPvFdOWxZjFLXZxgI+6KJxNPfhFIpPz4vc+MxdvfXTuMs/wO02kfjoGGVJCTUwF9Jj g1C8dM020FLMq4d9OkVfmBlB0dxDqdBc6oom1kYnfXWQ8Pysxfa1Qs0QkB19WL2EhrOz qpYHD3ZwdSNJzfROTe5649doDw+Hj5ls1mVWldaEIPg/+dzEb8oeDuYlYnZ1Eg7dsLth sX9s7AP2mxDJDOG5gsapM2K6Gaa6NskTPhwSWh03cTHJdenQI5sI7i7mlTZmyvS/3NKm Lll/4wB6A9jI+DTx+4QQR133DJx96KNFtd6LsdN/2y8R9j7wdcIeXaFGQ7lrY/mSmIft ysyQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:mime-version:to:from:subject:date :importance:in-reply-to:references:content-type; bh=tyNEXjGGvgxhEB0w9HhePQIK4l/S83QQOZV+nXtQzl8=; b=fuFJJZtjibgR9NY3nGxAPVazpQIhbVelQhjcNZs02Wm/r294TtDiqZouG9+0sN+3Fp AFQkQZ57zpskU1o3Jg9D9kXgPFt9rxvh7eMJ/d1cJjTauwbJoqxUyv0an1Dbmky9TxGP tyavWN0CvlZv8ZRsu3QiWNpCc9ZPKpwX0S96pv7FJAMZSik/fpQC4S5Dj9lb16zw2d/V PoPGrYpBKAjLxbj4D/9AMNxS6bs5MZw8ZM4Mr9ghiXOndbR/dHmBa3zBABvDhmGJSeZZ LfC5KF0yVN9y3sFrU4QyzpeVS5tOXdznC6VsardakZD6S+Xwip99x2pqOqxhlKNgwTuB GEgw== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOQBSgmNk+GbX+8TstdG10iwt1BwlJ21wPbPxzN5ZBk1bsv4YyaFL9JdlTOi3ewHxA== X-Received: by 10.129.73.80 with SMTP id w77mr9286601ywa.346.1453725432539; Mon, 25 Jan 2016 04:37:12 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from ?IPv6:::ffff:192.168.0.219? (adsl-98-70-191-155.gnv.bellsouth.net. [98.70.191.155]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g187sm13946100ywd.51.2016.01.25.04.37.10 for (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 25 Jan 2016 04:37:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <56a616f7.c4c40d0a.dc719.ffffa396@mx.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Bradburry Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: parts upgrade; was: What do you think may behappening? Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 07:37:03 -0500 Importance: normal X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_D869AFBD-889D-4422-AF62-8E7F5FC5A5CA_" --_D869AFBD-889D-4422-AF62-8E7F5FC5A5CA_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_F1CDCCA1-7AAD-4ED7-B85E-08A6ADD515A3_" --_F1CDCCA1-7AAD-4ED7-B85E-08A6ADD515A3_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Don=E2=80=99t know if this might be a factor but remember that this cold st= art function when disabling injectors only works in Mode 0. Make sure that= is where the mode switch is when disabling either set of injectors. Also note that radically different flow rate injectors (like on Renesis) ca= n require some quick adjustment of mixture when disabling injectors. I=E2=80=99m off to the butcher to see about how long I=E2=80=99ll be out of= commission. Tracy=20 Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Bill Bradburry Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 12:44 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: parts upgrade; was: What do you think may behappen= ing? I was afraid this would happen=E2=80=A6 I got the new injector disable switches replaced today and while I was repl= acing them, I verified that both primary and secondary switches take pin 30= on the EC-2 to ground, so my wiring now seems to be correct. But unfortunately I also verified that the cold start action does not turn = on both sets of injectors.=C2=A0 My engine operates as I described and not = as Tracy says it should. With the engine idling at about 1400 rpm, and the mixture at about 14.7, I = turned off the secondary and the engine ran a little differently and the mi= xture went to about 13.0.=C2=A0 When I turned off the primary, the engine d= ied unless I immediately turned it back on.=C2=A0 I normally shut the engin= e down by first turning off the power to the injectors and that is just the= way it acts. I then ran the engine up to 22 inches and turned the primary off and the en= gine ran just a little differently but made no effort to shut down.=C2=A0 I= don=E2=80=99t have much in the way of readings yet at that power because i= t is too hard to hold the plane with just brakes. Apparently the cold start system in my EC-2 is not working the way it shoul= d.=C2=A0 I need to get this repaired but with Tracy out of commission, I do= n=E2=80=99t know how to affect that.=C2=A0 I suppose it is not too much of = an emergency because this has been going on for a long time.=C2=A0 :>( I will try to get some better data by coarsening the prop so I can hold it = better.=C2=A0 I just need to get it above 20 inches and 4000 rpm to get it = into that range and hold it for at least a takeoff amount of time. Any ideas on how to get the EM-2 repaired?=C2=A0 How long will Tracy be imp= aired? Bill=20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 9:47 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] parts upgrade; was: What do you think may be happening= ? Sorry to hear that you've got to be cut on again, but maybe you'll at least= get an 'upgrade' that will work a little better & last a little longer thi= s time. :-) On 1/20/2016 12:55 PM, Tracy Crook wrote: Steve=E2=80=99s description of how the EC2/3 works was correct. =C2=A0 Many get this bit confused but The intention with =C2=A0the disable switch = was to use a DPDT switch for the disables.=C2=A0=C2=A0 When in the disable = position, the other pole of the switch is used to activate (switch to groun= d) the Cold Start input to the EC2/3 at the same time.=C2=A0 This eliminate= s having to turn off the CS switch when disabling a set of injectors and en= ables the EC2 to operate on either set over the full range of manifold pres= sures.=C2=A0 The EC2/3 is able to see when you have disabled the primaries = and operate the secondary=E2=80=99s =C2=A0even though engine is operating b= elow stage point. =C2=A0 I=E2=80=99ve been out of touch lately and will be for awhile.=C2=A0 Need to= have my hip replaced (again). =C2=A0 Tracy =C2=A0 Sent from Mail for Windows 10 =C2=A0 From: Bill Bradburry Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 1:44 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: What do you think may be happening? =C2=A0 Steve, I think my engine dies and has little effect when I turn off the primary an= d secondary respectively.=C2=A0 I will have to investigate this when I get = the switches replaced (I plan to replace both)=C2=A0 I may have something m= iswired?? It is cold, maybe Tracy is back in Florida and will chime in. =C2=A0 Bill=20 =C2=A0 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 12:32 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: What do you think may be happening? =C2=A0 Bill, =C2=A0 I have tested the injector disable function with my EC2's.=C2=A0 With the p= ower interrupted to the primary injectors and the cold switch on, the engin= e runs on the secondary injectors at MAP below the staging threshold.=C2=A0= I don't know the details of how the controller treats the cold switch, but= it is possible that with the cold switch on, the controller increases the = fuel flow by using both the primary and secondary injectors at MAP below th= e staging threshold, and doubles the injector pulse width at MAP above the = staging threshold.=C2=A0 I remember investigating this when first using the= controllers but don't remember the exact details.=C2=A0=C2=A0My backup sys= tem does work at low MAP. =C2=A0 Steve =C2=A0 From: Rotary motors in aircraft on behalf of = Bill Bradburry Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:15 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: What do you think may be happening?=20 =C2=A0 Bobby, I am sorry I was not clear and the reason was that I was not clear myself. =C2=A0 The injector disable switches are for in case you lose an injector in fligh= t and the engine starts to run on only one rotor.=C2=A0 You can disable eit= her of the primary or secondary injectors which will take the failed inject= or out of the circuit. Tracy says you should test this to make sure that it works.=C2=A0 That is w= here my question came from.=C2=A0 You can only test the disable switches wh= en the engine is not staged.=C2=A0 If the engine is staged, and you turn of= f the primary injectors, the engine will die because the secondary injector= s are not running, and if you turn off the secondary injectors, the engine = will run rich because you turned on the cold start but the secondaries were= not running anyway. =C2=A0 I am not sure what would happen if you lost a primary injector in flight, d= isabled the primary injectors, then reduced power to the staging point in o= rder to land???=C2=A0 I suspect all would get quiet!=C2=A0 :>( =C2=A0 Bill=20 =C2=A0 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:35 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: What do you think may be happening? =C2=A0 Bill, =C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m not sure I understand the question.=C2=A0 If your referring to = my =E2=80=9Ccenter off switch position=E2=80=9D it=E2=80=99s not used in fl= ight. Intentionally anyway =E2=98=BA It=E2=80=99s used to shut down the eng= ine. Primary injector switch of course. Same switch used for both primary a= nd secondary injectors.=20 =C2=A0 Bobby =C2=A0 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 10:55 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: What do you think may be happening? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Changing the subject a minute=E2=80=A6How do you disable the secondary=E2= =80=99s when the engine is staged??=C2=A0 They are not running anyway??? =C2=A0 Bill=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -- Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyro= tary/List.html --_F1CDCCA1-7AAD-4ED7-B85E-08A6ADD515A3_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"

Don=E2=80=99t know if this might be = a factor but remember that this cold start function when disabling injector= s only works in Mode 0.=C2=A0 Make sure that is where the mode switch is wh= en disabling either set of injectors.

Also note tha= t radically different flow rate injectors (like on Renesis) can require som= e quick adjustment of mixture when disabling injectors.

 

I=E2=80=99m off t= o the butcher to see about how long I=E2=80=99ll be out of commission.

<= p class=3DMsoNormal> 

 

Tracy

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: Bill= Bradburry
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 12:44 AM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraf= t
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: parts upgrade; was: What do you th= ink may behappening?

 

I was afraid this would happen=E2=80=A6

 

= = I got the new injector disable switches replaced today and while I was repl= acing them, I verified that both primary and secondary switches take pin 30= on the EC-2 to ground, so my wiring now seems to be correct.

But unfortunately I also verified that the col= d start action does not turn on both sets of injectors.  My engine ope= rates as I described and not as Tracy says it should.

=

 

With = the engine idling at about 1400 rpm, and the mixture at about 14.7, I turne= d off the secondary and the engine ran a little differently and the mixture= went to about 13.0.  When I turned off the primary, the engine died u= nless I immediately turned it back on.  I normally shut the engine dow= n by first turning off the power to the injectors and that is just the way = it acts.

 =

I then ran the engine up to 22 inches and turned t= he primary off and the engine ran just a little differently but made no eff= ort to shut down.  I don=E2=80=99t have much in the way of readings ye= t at that power because it is too hard to hold the plane with just brakes.<= o:p>

 

Apparently the cold start system in my EC-2 is not working = the way it should.  I need to get this repaired but with Tracy out of = commission, I don=E2=80=99t know how to affect that.  I suppose it is = not too much of an emergency because this has been going on for a long time= .  :>(

 <= /span>

I will try to get some better data by coarse= ning the prop so I can hold it better.  I just need to get it above 20= inches and 4000 rpm to get it into that range and hold it for at least a t= akeoff amount of time.

 = ;

Any ideas on how to get the EM-2 rep= aired?  How long will Tracy be impaired?

 

Bill <= /o:p>

 

From: Rotary m= otors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Sat= urday, January 23, 2016 9:47 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
= Subject: [FlyRotary] parts upgrade; was: What do you think may be ha= ppening?Mail for Windows 10

 


From: Bill Bradburry
Sent: = Wednesday, January 20, 2016 1:44 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [Fly= Rotary] Re: What do you think may be happening?

 

Steve,

I think my engine dies and has little effect when I turn off t= he primary and secondary respectively.  I will have to investigate thi= s when I get the switches replaced (I plan to replace both)  I may hav= e something miswired??

It is cold, maybe Tra= cy is back in Florida and will chime in.

 

Bill

 

3D"cid:image001.png@01D1538A.2A4B8680"

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Se= nt: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 12:32 PM
To: Rotary motors in= aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: What do you think may be happe= ning?

 

Bill,

 

I have tested the injector disable= function with my EC2's.  With the power interrupted to the primary in= jectors and the cold switch on, the engine runs on the secondary injectors = at MAP below the staging threshold.  I don't know the details of how t= he controller treats the cold switch, but it is possible that with the cold= switch on, the controller increases the fuel flow by using both the primar= y and secondary injectors at MAP below the staging threshold, and doubles t= he injector pulse width at MAP above the staging threshold.  I remembe= r investigating this when first using the controllers but don't remember th= e exact details.  My backup system does work at low MAP.

 

Steve

 

3D"cid:image002.png@01D1538A.2A4B8680"=

From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> on be= half of Bill Bradburry <f= lyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2= 016 11:15 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [Fl= yRotary] Re: What do you think may be happening?

=  

Bobby,=

I am sorry I was not cl= ear and the reason was that I was not clear myself.

 

The injector disable switches are for in case you lose an inject= or in flight and the engine starts to run on only one rotor.  You can = disable either of the primary or secondary injectors which will take the fa= iled injector out of the circuit.

Tracy says you should test this to make sure that it works. = That is where my question came from.  You can only test the disable s= witches when the engine is not staged.  If the engine is staged, and y= ou turn off the primary injectors, the engine will die because the secondar= y injectors are not running, and if you turn off the secondary injectors, t= he engine will run rich because you turned on the cold start but the second= aries were not running anyway.

 

I am not s= ure what would happen if you lost a primary injector in flight, disabled th= e primary injectors, then reduced power to the staging point in order to la= nd???  I suspect all would get quiet!  :>(

 

Bill

&nb= sp;

 

Bill,

<= p style=3D'background:white'> 

I=E2=80=99m not sure I understand the question. = If your referring to my =E2=80=9Ccenter off switch position=E2=80=9D it=E2= =80=99s not used in flight. Intentionally anyway J It=E2=80=99= s used to shut down the engine. Primary injector switch of course. Same swi= tch used for both primary and secondary injectors.

 

Bobby

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 10:55 AM
To: Rotary motors in airc= raft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: What do you think may be happening?=

 

<= p style=3D'background:white'> 

 

Changing the subject a minute=E2=80=A6How do you disable the secondary= =E2=80=99s when the engine is staged??  They are not running anyway???=

 

Bill

<= /div>

 

 





<= pre>--
Homepage:  http=
://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail=
.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

 

 

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