X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Charlie England" Received: from mail-pf0-f179.google.com ([209.85.192.179] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.8) with ESMTPS id 8349562 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 23 Jan 2016 10:45:59 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.192.179; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-pf0-f179.google.com with SMTP id n128so58046944pfn.3 for ; Sat, 23 Jan 2016 07:45:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-type; bh=AsOyjkKE4R5FUgNSzHEaQU0LU1ikH1g5W1w5y1pBo3A=; b=Nh1eQrBtcO6ItG8l5qlh1vO6Q6BeAvpQdOjts8385sKw/KNjm/La68ytkf7cGk4qQm t+cQfzmntB89zqoI3OlvEDROaH6Vyofu2OJN0xbfHkg3dLoDvI6eBMpmMLlQ6Y98Z0/A 3C/QqORiovcnRD9+8pxKm949U4Yd2tecuixQ57X7fMBGL9uLlEvVrHCUNjzjICNWF4xl 0wQJwotG7ievDTBw42aJto8qgA04IbgiNSyFoFKA/MEn+/RLKMTtD3dUS/eddgMvV9We eOXoeWZnCxkz2kxhv+/8wu+tjkfUTsZBdt8RoVJ0ZLAu5x3Dqx1WFfIFb2+xngOABNUb cwgw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type; bh=AsOyjkKE4R5FUgNSzHEaQU0LU1ikH1g5W1w5y1pBo3A=; b=NcUzQxFhujY02otyQhNZ1DA9BBQU7EoEz4G+JwwSQFAqqjcsTGSCCJ/VCCNVZlytTU g9sWsxe06Ed2nhx6NIkxNQc+D1ICUFj57LeQokSpRwGqNc3Pkef6qzWc6Izu8USG+1DB 1al4Zx6GldNLimVRqR2iEHV/OiQDPjV2DtjWIAA2+BbWJwSeV54AOiXZMhsERi1lSp9l 6/haTW1FQp3CDHncW/g5uH5k6QeUHKn1CtRxROcaV/su3fKSMo4vJ/VRyDLpT7PUg0cA Rm9xyil1eiAIJYgEmIaEvN1a4pQW/jUhiwZxL9iDKy6kmE8xsOEPAZcrmKHeF0pUvjV1 8yKw== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOTsp+gHJ4eeih7P5baQpHJ4c9ubracPQtuiiPxxF+4TKDtBnQvLtubKiT3kKK/naA== X-Received: by 10.98.68.193 with SMTP id m62mr12820786pfi.153.1453563940094; Sat, 23 Jan 2016 07:45:40 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from ?IPv6:2602:306:25fa:d4e9:d91c:9d83:9d9a:a546? ([2602:306:25fa:d4e9:d91c:9d83:9d9a:a546]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id sy5sm17308452pac.5.2016.01.23.07.45.38 for (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sat, 23 Jan 2016 07:45:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: parts upgrade; was: What do you think may be happening? To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: <56A3A06A.4050808@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 09:46:50 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050808050209030401000105" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050808050209030401000105 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry to hear that you've got to be cut on again, but maybe you'll at least get an 'upgrade' that will work a little better & last a little longer this time. :-) On 1/20/2016 12:55 PM, Tracy Crook wrote: > > Steve’s description of how the EC2/3 works was correct. > > Many get this bit confused but The intention with the disable switch > was to use a DPDT switch for the disables. When in the disable > position, the other pole of the switch is used to activate (switch to > ground) the Cold Start input to the EC2/3 at the same time. This > eliminates having to turn off the CS switch when disabling a set of > injectors and enables the EC2 to operate on either set over the full > range of manifold pressures. The EC2/3 is able to see when you have > disabled the primaries and operate the secondary’s even though engine > is operating below stage point. > > I’ve been out of touch lately and will be for awhile. Need to have my > hip replaced (again). > > Tracy > > Sent from Mail for > Windows 10 > > > *From: *Bill Bradburry > *Sent: *Wednesday, January 20, 2016 1:44 PM > *To: *Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject: *[FlyRotary] Re: What do you think may be happening? > > Steve, > > I think my engine dies and has little effect when I turn off the > primary and secondary respectively. I will have to investigate this > when I get the switches replaced (I plan to replace both) I may have > something miswired?? > > It is cold, maybe Tracy is back in Florida and will chime in. > > Bill > > *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 12:32 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: What do you think may be happening? > > Bill, > > I have tested the injector disable function with my EC2's. With the > power interrupted to the primary injectors and the cold switch on, the > engine runs on the secondary injectors at MAP below the staging > threshold. I don't know the details of how the controller treats the > cold switch, but it is possible that with the cold switch on, the > controller increases the fuel flow by using both the primary and > secondary injectors at MAP below the staging threshold, and doubles > the injector pulse width at MAP above the staging threshold. I > remember investigating this when first using the controllers but don't > remember the exact details. My backup system does work at low MAP. > > Steve > > *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft on > behalf of Bill Bradburry > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:15 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: What do you think may be happening? > > Bobby, > > I am sorry I was not clear and the reason was that I was not clear myself. > > The injector disable switches are for in case you lose an injector in > flight and the engine starts to run on only one rotor. You can > disable either of the primary or secondary injectors which will take > the failed injector out of the circuit. > > Tracy says you should test this to make sure that it works. That is > where my question came from. You can only test the disable switches > when the engine is not staged. If the engine is staged, and you turn > off the primary injectors, the engine will die because the secondary > injectors are not running, and if you turn off the secondary > injectors, the engine will run rich because you turned on the cold > start but the secondaries were not running anyway. > > I am not sure what would happen if you lost a primary injector in > flight, disabled the primary injectors, then reduced power to the > staging point in order to land??? I suspect all would get quiet! :>( > > Bill > > *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:35 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: What do you think may be happening? > > Bill, > > I’m not sure I understand the question. If your referring to my > “center off switch position” it’s not used in flight. Intentionally > anyway JIt’s used to shut down the engine. Primary injector switch of > course. Same switch used for both primary and secondary injectors. > > Bobby > > *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 20, 2016 10:55 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: What do you think may be happening? > > Changing the subject a minute…How do you disable the secondary’s when > the engine is staged?? They are not running anyway??? > > Bill > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --------------050808050209030401000105 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Sorry to hear that you've got to be cut on again, but maybe you'll at least get an 'upgrade' that will work a little better & last a little longer this time. :-)

On 1/20/2016 12:55 PM, Tracy Crook wrote:

Steve’s description of how the EC2/3 works was correct.

 

Many get this bit confused but The intention with  the disable switch was to use a DPDT switch for the disables.   When in the disable position, the other pole of the switch is used to activate (switch to ground) the Cold Start input to the EC2/3 at the same time.  This eliminates having to turn off the CS switch when disabling a set of injectors and enables the EC2 to operate on either set over the full range of manifold pressures.  The EC2/3 is able to see when you have disabled the primaries and operate the secondary’s  even though engine is operating below stage point.

 

I’ve been out of touch lately and will be for awhile.  Need to have my hip replaced (again).

 

Tracy

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


From: Bill Bradburry
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 1:44 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: What do you think may be happening?

 

Steve,

I think my engine dies and has little effect when I turn off the primary and secondary respectively.  I will have to investigate this when I get the switches replaced (I plan to replace both)  I may have something miswired??

It is cold, maybe Tracy is back in Florida and will chime in.

 

Bill

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 12:32 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: What do you think may be happening?

 

Bill,

 

I have tested the injector disable function with my EC2's.  With the power interrupted to the primary injectors and the cold switch on, the engine runs on the secondary injectors at MAP below the staging threshold.  I don't know the details of how the controller treats the cold switch, but it is possible that with the cold switch on, the controller increases the fuel flow by using both the primary and secondary injectors at MAP below the staging threshold, and doubles the injector pulse width at MAP above the staging threshold.  I remember investigating this when first using the controllers but don't remember the exact details.  My backup system does work at low MAP.

 

Steve

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> on behalf of Bill Bradburry <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:15 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: What do you think may be happening?

 

Bobby,

I am sorry I was not clear and the reason was that I was not clear myself.

 

The injector disable switches are for in case you lose an injector in flight and the engine starts to run on only one rotor.  You can disable either of the primary or secondary injectors which will take the failed injector out of the circuit.

Tracy says you should test this to make sure that it works.  That is where my question came from.  You can only test the disable switches when the engine is not staged.  If the engine is staged, and you turn off the primary injectors, the engine will die because the secondary injectors are not running, and if you turn off the secondary injectors, the engine will run rich because you turned on the cold start but the secondaries were not running anyway.

 

I am not sure what would happen if you lost a primary injector in flight, disabled the primary injectors, then reduced power to the staging point in order to land???  I suspect all would get quiet!  :>(

 

Bill

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:35 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: What do you think may be happening?

 

Bill,

 

I’m not sure I understand the question.  If your referring to my “center off switch position” it’s not used in flight. Intentionally anyway J It’s used to shut down the engine. Primary injector switch of course. Same switch used for both primary and secondary injectors.

 

Bobby

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 10:55 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: What do you think may be happening?

 

 

 

Changing the subject a minute…How do you disable the secondary’s when the engine is staged??  They are not running anyway???

 

Bill

 

 



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Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
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