X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "David Leonard" Received: from mail-io0-f170.google.com ([209.85.223.170] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.8) with ESMTPS id 8326997 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 14 Jan 2016 15:04:24 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.223.170; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by mail-io0-f170.google.com with SMTP id 77so433483792ioc.2 for ; Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:04:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=ig8toLJq0hm7kTtP0ZSHwOL+0VHR9B7Otm6utnv9sSk=; b=RcqwMGdW3ayc1CMsxs8n3pRq5UPRPXkhKgse6j+CW83dtII5NIZKMUAMYgft5autef RMwWlbUFtlJam7jg1m8NX5KUHi3qBi1fqlBkJqel2gdOPGFeYgi8q3jXJRsc8x/fltkM WwdyYOfqhXveuLudo7eks/lKbwtmjpQqMgJ5gHiyUCv9i99CE61wPmHDepD3F7dQawW9 mh/130862/1oqcnv+fMvJVL6nLFCgHfvKOdo/UcC8deX8hmWORJ1G9wTup0Do1SmTepm QtTPaL4gofk3ZYi1YwdeMtMjmi7HEFqZp5yS9b+3sUdfTpG6nNc7BTUm3QkDbtKM6UIa zpYg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=ig8toLJq0hm7kTtP0ZSHwOL+0VHR9B7Otm6utnv9sSk=; b=S+C5ThCaiqpew/ghoNHnWgEQtOONMtAig65Qy0Uj2E1s8fcfQ96/HzHAhdKEqXA/tu fVOhK9IxIWXaGAx28GE2WGkBF2TihwNYnobhgbK2C9ovq8oqqIBrHDI6Jpdt9Yiu6rFw JKr1N937DbnPvtiZA7hqe/1ZUk5hUHhCI4xL7XOwhrOq5OqeeIqc22nZekDmqvoNYaew m1WXyLSKSWWfmcq7GEBZIZ5ggPr4HvIOrK6qSXJYUmQqoUhQe2ydXAumeUGqTQWrWbEA ymLNmxMbQA/+HfsuWV+H4YRO8aMGh4xdlyS6g7dKuSGJsjVwoY7epaGRFXpc2018EW1D GlBw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlPVWzG7yvEz3Wt1md8GoRrRs8FsV9J3L7RIdh+VYVa1mRrVZsDRy3cpm3FWosS22iSQrNoY79C6+wHRr2Ox7Bw01CMuQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.19.160 with SMTP id 32mr6509944iot.104.1452801846240; Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:04:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.79.69.129 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:04:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 12:04:06 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Scavenge Pump vs Custom Oil Pan To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113f37ccf96bf2052950c97d --001a113f37ccf96bf2052950c97d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Steve, Thanks for the great input. Maybe the things you mention could work for me. I had been thinking about crankcase pressure because all I use is the rather small stock outlet on the fill tube and I run that through a long length of -4 aluminum tube to "keep the engine compartment dry" (my original plan). Step 1 should be to get rid of that length of AN-4 tube and drain the RD-1B back to the housing leg like you do. I love your turbo installation! I sure wish I had the room to to mine like that. Very professional!!!! David Leonard On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 11:21 AM, Steven W. Boese < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Dave, > > > I have attached a photo of the drain from the turbo on my Renesis test > stand. The orange fire sleeve covers a section of 1986 13B stock oil > cooler hose that connects the turbo drain flange to an oil level sensor > port (also 1986 13B) which is installed below the oil level in a custom oil > pan that I built. There is a steel tube brazed to the bottom of the turbo > oil drain as close as possible to the drain flange. There is a hose > connected to this steel tube which is leads to a crankcase vent port near > the oil filler location. This makes the fire sleeved hose essentially an > extension of the oil pan where the turbo drains into it above the oil level > in the pan. No air lock should occur due to the connection to the > crankcase vent. This has worked for me so far. I initially had a scavenge > pump to return the turbo drain oil to the crankcase, but I decided to try > the vented drain to simplify things. > > > I have had no oil coming from the RD1B input shaft seal in about 500 > flight hours on my NA 13B installation. The drain is a -6 aluminum tube > with a slight downhill slope from the RD drain to the side of a rotor > housing leg. A 5/8" id crankcase vent is installed in the center iron > where the stock oil filler standpipe was originally located. I haven't > measured the crankcase pressure under WOT throttle conditions. Is there > any possibility that crankcase pressure is contributing to the oil leaking > by your RD seal? > > > Steve Boese > RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2 > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft on behalf > of David Leonard > *Sent:* Thursday, January 14, 2016 10:11 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Oil Scavenge Pump vs Custom Oil Pan > > Hi All, > > I have decided to install an oil scavenge system to return the oil from > Tracy's gear box and perhaps from my turbo as well. I am really getting > tired of all the oil getting all over everything. It clearly seems to be > coming from the area between the RD1B and engine, which means that it is > probably coming past the RD1B oil seal. Tracy calls for a nice big line > and downhill only run of the oil to a point that is higher than the oil > level in the sump. However, there is precious little elevation drop and I > have not been able to achieve those requirements with a gravity only > system. If I run the oil level very low in the sump the problem is > improved, but I think it is time for a better solution. > > I am considering either a custom oil pan that allows for a deeper drop of > the oil, or a scavenge pump. > > The benefit of the custom oil pan is that it can be an improvement in > weight over the stock pan, and requires no moving parts or power and is > unlikely to fail. The scavenge pump is nice because it would be an easier > installation and will probably be more effective at fixing my solution, > though I do worry about adding another possible failure point. > > 1) Soliciting pinions on the decision between Scavenge pump and custom oil > pan. > > 2) Recommendations on someone who makes custom oil pans and pickups? > > 3) If I choose a pump, does that solution require a tank or can the drain > lines be connected directly to the pump? This would create a suction on > the outlets of the RD1B and or the Turbo, does anyone see a problem with > that? Drain oil from the RD1B too fast? Bad for turbo bearings? > > 4) Would I need 2 pumps for redundancy? I am leaning that way, which > means I am leaning more toward custom oil pan. > > 5) Turbo drain back seem adequate, which means I could use the pump to > isolate the Gear Box oil, allowing for different oil there. Thoughts on > this option? > > Thanks for the input! > > Dave Leonard > Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > --001a113f37ccf96bf2052950c97d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Steve,=C2=A0
Thanks for the great input.=C2=A0 Maybe t= he things you mention could work for me.=C2=A0 I had been thinking about cr= ankcase pressure because all I use is the rather small stock outlet on the = fill tube and I run that through a long length of -4 aluminum tube to "= ;keep the engine compartment dry" (my original plan).=C2=A0 Step 1 sho= uld be to get rid of that length of AN-4 tube and drain the RD-1B back to t= he housing leg like you do.

I love your turbo inst= allation!=C2=A0 I sure wish I had the room to to mine like that. Very profe= ssional!!!!

David Leonard

On Thu, Jan 14, 2016 at 11:21 = AM, Steven W. Boese <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

Dave,


I have attached a photo of the drain from the turbo on my Renesis test s= tand.=C2=A0 The orange fire sleeve covers a section of 1986 13B stock oil c= ooler hose that connects the turbo drain flange to an oil level sensor port= (also 1986 13B) which is installed below the oil level in a custom oil pan that I built.=C2=A0 There is a steel tub= e brazed to the bottom of the turbo oil drain as close as possible to the d= rain flange.=C2=A0 There is a hose connected to this steel tube which is=C2= =A0leads to a crankcase vent port near the oil filler location.=C2=A0 This makes the fire sleeved hose essentially an ext= ension of the oil pan where the turbo drains into it above the oil level in= the pan.=C2=A0 No air lock should occur due to the connection to the crank= case vent.=C2=A0 This has worked for me so far.=C2=A0 I initially had a scavenge pump to return the turbo drain oil to the crank= case, but I decided to try the vented drain to simplify things.


I have had no oil coming from the RD1B input shaft seal in about 500 fli= ght hours on my NA 13B installation.=C2=A0 The drain is a -6 aluminum tube = with a slight downhill slope from the RD drain to the side of=C2=A0a rotor = housing leg.=C2=A0=C2=A0A 5/8" id=C2=A0crankcase vent=C2=A0is installed in the center iron where=C2=A0the stock oil filler standpipe was= originally located.=C2=A0 I haven't measured the crankcase pressure un= der WOT throttle conditions.=C2=A0 Is there any possibility that crankcase = pressure is contributing to the oil leaking by=C2=A0your RD seal?=C2=A0=C2=A0


Steve Boese
RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2


From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net> on behalf of David Leonard <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 10:11 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Oil Scavenge Pump vs Custom Oil Pan
=C2=A0
Hi All,

I have decided to install an oil scavenge system to return the oil fro= m Tracy's gear box and perhaps from my turbo as well.=C2=A0 I am really= getting tired of all the oil getting all over everything.=C2=A0 It clearly= seems to be coming from the area between the RD1B and engine, which means that it is probably coming past the RD1B oil = seal.=C2=A0 Tracy calls for a nice big line and downhill only run of the oi= l to a point that is higher than the oil level in the sump.=C2=A0 However, = there is precious little elevation drop and I have not been able to achieve those requirements with a gravity only sys= tem.=C2=A0 If I run the oil level very low in the sump the problem is impro= ved, but I think it is time for a better solution.

I am considering either a custom oil pan that allows for a deeper drop= of the oil, or a scavenge pump.

The benefit of the custom oil pan is that it can be an improvement in = weight over the stock pan, and requires no moving parts or power and is unl= ikely to fail.=C2=A0 The scavenge pump is nice because it would be an easie= r installation and will probably be more effective at fixing my solution, though I do worry about adding another po= ssible failure point.

1) Soliciting pinions on the decision between Scavenge pump and custom= oil pan.

2) Recommendations on someone who makes custom oil pans and pickups?

3) If I choose a pump, does that solution require a tank or can the dr= ain lines be connected directly to the pump?=C2=A0 This would create a suct= ion on the outlets of the RD1B and or the Turbo, does anyone see a problem = with that?=C2=A0 Drain oil from the RD1B too fast?=C2=A0 Bad for turbo bearings?=C2=A0

4) Would I need 2 pumps for redundancy?=C2=A0 I am leaning that way, w= hich means I am leaning more toward custom oil pan.

5) Turbo drain back seem adequate, which means I could use the pump to= isolate the Gear Box oil, allowing for different oil there.=C2=A0 Thoughts= on this option?

Thanks for the input!

Dave Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY

--
Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail= .lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


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