X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: Received: from omr-m06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.143.80] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.2) with ESMTPS id 7727546 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 02 Jun 2015 12:48:13 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.143.80; envelope-from=ARGOLDMAN@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mbe02.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mbe02.mx.aol.com [172.26.254.176]) by omr-m06.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 05C25700308E0 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2015 12:47:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-mxe003c.mail.aol.com (core-mxe003.mail.aol.com [172.29.197.137]) by mtaomg-mbe02.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id AB16438000084 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 2015 12:47:35 -0400 (EDT) Full-name: ARGOLDMAN Message-ID: <149790.5986d2f3.429f3827@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 12:47:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Method of adding oil to fuel To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_149790.5986d2f3.429f3827_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.7 sub 4049 X-Originating-IP: [50.151.84.32] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20140625; t=1433263655; bh=S+2m00iqyZ4Qezr1hRKpqe+t86CfHnD3DusKITyrWIA=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=xSgyL4k+Uc1xw9Jhf7VmIakJWpbalWxvZrKIUSqzirEnnHofs15QM7KVE37dp7Rss GbhOCe/PSRgWqfWb8rn7HpiGxdSQjyrIwpLU0UH7cQCg9bK0KnE+D7SrtlOFhoaRX6 OMOF96WvHXq49rD/6c8BGGfP/pBCqk5sq9dfGa7c= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1afeb0556dde276b11 --part1_149790.5986d2f3.429f3827_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Too late for me now, but when you are constructing your tanks, flox in oil= =20 lines to exit at the filler neck and start somewhere in the hell hole area= .=20 When you refuel, just inject the oil into the end of the free end of the= =20 line just before fueling. Use good valves to close off the lines. The add= ed=20 fuel turbulence will mix the new oil well. (too soon oldt-- too late smar= dt =20 Rich =20 =20 In a message dated 6/2/2015 10:14:26 A.M. Central Daylight Time, =20 flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: =20 Chrissi,=20 Could you guys give us an update on parts you are manufacturing for the= =20 rotary install? I am particularly wondering about the PSRU that Tracy us= ed=20 to make, as well as the engine mount plate for the 13B, 20B, and Renesis.= =20 Are you guys still making all these items?=20 Bill =20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 8:46 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Method of adding oil to fuel =20 What about the plastic squeeze bottles used in restaurants for condiment= s? =20 =20 Chrissi =20 =20 CG Products =20 =20 _www.CozyGirrrl.com_ (http://www.cozygirrrl.com/) =20 =20 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D =20 =20 See the InMotion SCV mini-Segway personal transporter at Osh 2015! This= is=20 small, light & portable. =20 Randi will demo it in the FlyMart booths 733-734 & booth 4115 in Hanger= D=20 behind the FlyMart =20 =20 More information at _www.Wheels-InMotion.com_=20 (http://www.wheels-inmotion.com/) Be sure to ask for the "Cozy Girrrls"= discount=20 =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: William Jepson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Fri, May 22, 2015 12:15 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Method of adding oil to fuel=20 =20 =20 Bill, all the guys doing fiberglass planes should have some metered pumps= .=20 Don't know how big the "shot" is but they might work. =20 Bill Jepson =20 On May 21, 2015 4:06 PM, "Bill Bradburry" < _flyrotary@lancaironline.net_= =20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) > wrote: =20 =20 =20 =20 Rich, =20 =20 The syringe is along the kind of ideas I was thinking of. I was thinking= =20 of perhaps a pump that put out a measured dose that you could insert into= =20 your oil container with a hose on the outlet so that you could pump in=20 however many squirts you needed. You should be able to pump out of the= gallon=20 container you buy the oil in. You could then cap the hose so that it did= n=E2=80=99t=20 leak. I also like that 12 pack cooler that Bobby mentioned as well to=20 help keep this messy stuff organized. =20 =20 More ideas?? =20 =20 Bill =20 =20 =20 =20 ____________________________________ =20 =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_=20 (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) ]=20 Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 9:57 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Method of adding oil to fuel =20 =20 =20 Mark, =20 =20 =20 =20 Yes and no with the OMP.=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Forgetting about the small risk of failure of the OMP (which does happen)= ,=20 in the Renesis engines manufactured until, I believe 2004, the ports=20 squirting the oil into the trochoids were insufficient (there were only= 2 per=20 rotor) and they had multiple problems, so much so that Mazda, I am told,= =20 built a factory just to rebuild the Renesis' at no cost to the owners. If= you=20 have a pre-2005 renesis with 2 injection ports per rotor don't even consi= der=20 the OMP. If you want to consider the OMP, that is a decision with pros an= d=20 cons on each side which I will not go into. =20 =20 =20 =20 One way of mixing the fuel and oil is to get a large cappable poly syring= e=20 or syringes . Fill it (them) with 2 stroke oil and while adding fuel,=20 inject the appropriate amount as the fuel is flowing. They used to do thi= s with=20 a product called Prist for Turbine engines. (although they used aerosol= =20 cans with a tube which attached to the filler nozzle.) =20 =20 =20 =20 If you know that you are going to put 10 gal in your tank, when you start= =20 fueling, squirt the stuff in in the beginning when you start to add your= =20 fuel. Since the 2 stroke is or supposed to be miscible with fuel, adding= it=20 this way especially with the initial agitation of filling, despite the=20 baffles, it should evenly distribute. If you want, you can rock the wings= .=20 Remember, the baffles are not continuous and have relief ports at the bot= tom of =20 each. =20 =20 =20 =20 One question that I have about any of the 2 stroke oil bulk adding is is= =20 there a difference between the brands on their misciblity? =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Rich =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 In a message dated 5/21/2015 9:17:34 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 _flyrotary@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) write= s: =20 =20 =20 Bill, =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 I used to pre-mix my oil & gas back when I was running auto gas=20 (non-ethanol), pumping into a fuel trailer at the nearby gas station. I= would pour=20 the required amount of 2-stroke oil into the trailer tank, then add fuel.= =20 By the time I was back at the airport it was well mixed. After they start= ed=20 blending all mogas with ethanol, I was forced to go to 100LL as my wing's= =20 adhesives are incompatible with alcohol. My wings have a series of baffl= es,=20 so adequate mixing became a problem. So, I switched to the oil metering= =20 pump (OMP), using Richard Sohn's OMP adapter and drawing from an auxiliar= y=20 tank mounted on the firewall. Now, I just have to remember to keep the= oil=20 tank full. I often add a small amount of 2-stroke when filling the tanks= , =20 but that is probably overkill. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 It is my belief that the OMP puts the oil exactly where it needs to be,= =20 directly on the apex seals rather than mixing in with the fuel only to be= =20 burned up and blown out the exhaust, most of it never reaching the apex= seals.=20 (Probably a topic for future discussion.) Anyway, I'm happy with the OM= P=20 approach. It is a very simple pump and has proven effective in millions= =20 of RX-7's and RX-8's. The one modification I made was to fabricate steel= =20 oil lines to replace the plastic lines. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Mark S. =20 =20 Lancair ES - 20B - pport =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 10:15 PM, Bill Bradburry=20 <_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) > wro= te: =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 I decided to add oil to the fuel as I do the fill up back when I was=20 building. That was not a problem for a long time because I was buying fu= el in a=20 couple of 55 gal drums and hauling them on a trailer. I would add the oi= l=20 to the drum before I left the hangar to go to the gas station and then=20 just fill the drums. =20 =20 The first time that I tried to do this at an airport, it turned out to be= =20 a PITA! The wind was blowing and it was cold and the oil was stringing= =20 out all over me and the wing. Quite a mess! =20 =20 This makes me start to think of how can I measure and add this oil in a= =20 neat clean and easy way. Now I know I am not the first guy to try and ga= s up=20 on a windy day so has anybody figured out how to do this in a cute way? =20 =20 I discovered a long time ago that the best inventions I can come up with= =20 come off this list. How do you guys do this? =20 =20 Bill =20 =20 --part1_149790.5986d2f3.429f3827_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
Too late for me now, but when you are constructing your tanks, flox= in oil=20 lines to exit at the filler neck and start somewhere in the hell hole area= . When=20 you refuel, just inject the oil into the end of the free end of the line= just=20 before fueling. Use good valves to close off the lines. The added fue= l=20 turbulence will mix the new oil well. (too soon oldt-- too late smardt
 
Rich
 
In a message dated 6/2/2015 10:14:26 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

Chrissi,=

 

Could you guy= s give=20 us an update on parts you are manufacturing for the rotary install? = ; I am=20 particularly wondering about the PSRU that Tracy used to make, as well as the en= gine=20 mount plate for the 13B, 20B, and Renesis.

 

Are you guys= still=20 making all these items?

 

Bill=20

 

From:<= /SPAN>=20 Rotary motors in aircraft= =20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2015 8:46= =20 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Method= of adding=20 oil to fuel

 

What about= the=20 plastic squeeze bottles used in restaurants for=20 condiments?

 <= /o:p>

Chrissi=20

CG=20 Products      =20

www.CozyGirrrl.com

=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20

See the InMo= tion SCV=20 mini-Segway personal transporter at Osh 2015! This is small, light &= =20 portable.    
Randi will demo it in the FlyMart= booths=20 733-734 & booth 4115 in Hanger D behind the=20 FlyMart    

More informa= tion at=20 www.Wheels-InMotion.com Be sure to ask for the "Cozy= =20 Girrrls" discount

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

-----Origina= l=20 Message-----
From: William Jepson=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To: R= otary=20 motors in aircraft=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, May 22, 2015 12:15=20 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Method of adding oil to=20 fuel

Bill, all th= e guys=20 doing fiberglass planes should have some metered pumps. Don't know how= big the=20 "shot" is but they might work.

Bill=20 Jepson

On May 21,= 2015 4:06=20 PM, "Bill Bradburry" < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:=20

Rich,<= /FONT><= /SPAN>

 = <= /SPAN>

The syringe= is along=20 the kind of ideas I was thinking of.  I was thinking of perhaps a= pump=20 that put out a measured dose that you could insert into your oil contain= er=20 with a hose on the outlet so that you could pump in however many squirts= you=20 needed.  You should be able to pump out of the gallon container you= buy=20 the oil in.  You could then cap the hose so that it didn=E2=80=99t= leak.  I=20 also like that 12 pack cooler that Bobby mentioned as well to help keep= this=20 messy stuff organized.<= /SPAN>

 = <= /SPAN>

More=20 ideas??<= /SPAN>

 = <= /SPAN>

Bill=20 <= /SPAN>

 = <= /SPAN>

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 9:57= =20 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Method= of adding=20 oil to fuel<= /SPAN>

 <= /SPAN>

Mark,

 <= /o:p>

Yes and no= with the=20 OMP.

 <= /o:p>

Forgetting= about the=20 small risk of failure of the OMP (which does happen), in the Renesis eng= ines=20 manufactured until, I believe 2004, the ports squirting the oil into the= =20 trochoids were insufficient (there were only 2 per rotor) and they had= =20 multiple problems, so much so that Mazda, I am told, built a factory jus= t to=20 rebuild the Renesis' at no cost to the owners. If you have a pre-2005 re= nesis=20 with 2 injection ports per rotor don't even consider the OMP. If you wan= t to=20 consider the OMP, that is a decision with pros and cons on each side whi= ch I=20 will not go into.

 <= /o:p>

One way of= mixing=20 the fuel and oil is to get a large cappable poly syringe or syringes .= Fill it=20 (them) with 2 stroke oil and while adding fuel, inject the appropri= ate=20 amount as the fuel is flowing. They used to do this with a product calle= d=20 Prist for Turbine engines. (although they used aerosol cans with a tube= which=20 attached to the filler nozzle.)

 <= /o:p>

If you know= that you=20 are going to put 10 gal in your tank, when you start fueling, squirt the= stuff=20 in in the beginning when you start to add your fuel. Since the 2 stroke= is or=20 supposed to be miscible with fuel, adding it this way especially wi= th the=20 initial agitation of filling, despite the baffles, it should evenly= =20 distribute. If you want, you can rock the wings. Remember, the baffles= are not=20 continuous and have relief ports at the bottom of=20 each.

 <= /o:p>

One question= that I=20 have about any of the 2 stroke oil bulk adding is is there a difference= =20 between the brands on their=20 misciblity?

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

Rich

 <= /o:p>

In a message= dated=20 5/21/2015 9:17:34 A.M. Central Daylight Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net=20 writes:

Bill,=20

 

I used to= pre-mix=20 my oil & gas back when I was running auto gas (non-ethanol),= =20 pumping into a fuel trailer at the nearby gas station. I would po= ur the=20 required amount of 2-stroke oil into the trailer tank, then add fuel.&= nbsp;=20 By the time I was back at the airport it was well=20 mixed. After they started blending all mogas with ethanol, I was= forced=20 to go to 100LL as my wing's adhesives are incompatible with alcohol.&n= bsp;=20 My wings have a series of baffles, so adequate mixing became a=20 problem.  So, I switched to the oil metering pump (OMP), using Ri= chard=20 Sohn's OMP adapter and drawing from an auxiliary tank mounted on the= =20 firewall.  Now, I just have to remember to keep the oil tank=20 full.  I often add a small amount of 2-stroke when filling the ta= nks,=20 but that is probably overkill. =20

 

It is my= belief=20 that the OMP puts the oil exactly where it needs to be, directly on th= e apex=20 seals rather than mixing in with the fuel only to be burned up and blo= wn out=20 the exhaust, most of it never reaching the apex seals.  (Probably= a=20 topic for future discussion.)  Anyway, I'm happy with the OMP=20 approach.  It is a very simple pump and has proven effective in= =20 millions of RX-7's and RX-8's.  The one modification I made was= to=20 fabricate steel oil lines to replace the plastic lines. =20

 

Mark=20 S.

Lancair ES= - 20B=20 - pport 

 

On Wed, Ma= y 20,=20 2015 at 10:15 PM, Bill Bradburry <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20 wrote:

I decided= to add=20 oil to the fuel as I do the fill up back when I was building.  Th= at was=20 not a problem for a long time because I was buying fuel in a couple of= 55=20 gal drums and hauling them on a trailer.  I would add the oil to= the=20 drum before I left the hangar to go to the gas station and then just= fill=20 the drums.

 

The first= time that=20 I tried to do this at an airport, it turned out to be a PITA! &nb= sp;=20 The wind was blowing and it was cold and the oil was stringing out all= over=20 me and the wing.  Quite a mess!

 

This makes= me start=20 to think of how can I measure and add this oil in a neat clean and eas= y=20 way.  Now I know I am not the first guy to try and gas up on a wi= ndy=20 day so has anybody figured out how to do this in a cute=20 way?

 

I discovere= d a long=20 time ago that the best inventions I can come up with come off this=20 list.  How do you guys do this?

 

Bill=20

<= /DIV>

 

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