X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "William Archer" Received: from mail-ig0-f180.google.com ([209.85.213.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.2) with ESMTPS id 7706152 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 21 May 2015 21:33:51 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.213.180; envelope-from=archerwt@gmail.com Received: by igbhj9 with SMTP id hj9so25353372igb.1 for ; Thu, 21 May 2015 18:33:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=EaRnrO3X3yX14tfw9K2U7DohilFy0JhKpjFrGFMmliU=; b=bTLqJwECDkaOrhE5JQ+Z44128Zf9PEH7NcDW1TU9JmNmUIo44cIBWy51uS3aWSWi1F vAS4J2MspKG279gY8uVytSFZnga40LEMP9/HdS2xDlj+0GvTU7zWOnMP8Ti8y2eZ/cgN KaMUFm/84J04xQtbAKBtgvLku6WWNIynMjU3Y5opifa877oeEtUYvtSbRIROOMFD0i3S ewGJA9SAWn7IjwP3q4/WWgsgHDRd1Eg1Nxqv+YgnxlBWEuMkVhsQs1IjKD15es6w01t7 EupOUiQTnZQ4gPRfXDvfCQrO/Q+9gmUJxkqa1nJaJFOwMPOuvLhO50owu9+ioT4+WxnR 0tKA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.31.134 with SMTP id f128mr7357353iof.19.1432258398673; Thu, 21 May 2015 18:33:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.40.149 with HTTP; Thu, 21 May 2015 18:33:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 17:33:18 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Method of adding oil to fuel To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11403efa1461210516a1a521 --001a11403efa1461210516a1a521 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The way I've been doing it for hundreds of hours in the car is repurposing a plastic bottle created for additives or 2-stroke oil. Think of a Stabil bottle or the cheap 2-stroke oil from Wal Mart. Squeezing the bottle fills an upper reservoir to a premeasured 3oz. For every 3 gallons pumped, it gets a full dose and guestimate from there. It is easy to refill and holds ~24oz. For 3gph, it works great by itself. For aircraft, it would work for the odd gallons after filling with a whole 20oz bottle or just topping off. Todd On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote: > Rich, > > > > The syringe is along the kind of ideas I was thinking of. I was thinking > of perhaps a pump that put out a measured dose that you could insert into > your oil container with a hose on the outlet so that you could pump in > however many squirts you needed. You should be able to pump out of the > gallon container you buy the oil in. You could then cap the hose so that > it didn=E2=80=99t leak. I also like that 12 pack cooler that Bobby menti= oned as > well to help keep this messy stuff organized. > > > > More ideas?? > > > > Bill > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2015 9:57 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Method of adding oil to fuel > > > > Mark, > > > > Yes and no with the OMP. > > > > Forgetting about the small risk of failure of the OMP (which does happen)= , > in the Renesis engines manufactured until, I believe 2004, the ports > squirting the oil into the trochoids were insufficient (there were only 2 > per rotor) and they had multiple problems, so much so that Mazda, I am > told, built a factory just to rebuild the Renesis' at no cost to the > owners. If you have a pre-2005 renesis with 2 injection ports per rotor > don't even consider the OMP. If you want to consider the OMP, that is a > decision with pros and cons on each side which I will not go into. > > > > One way of mixing the fuel and oil is to get a large cappable poly syring= e > or syringes . Fill it (them) with 2 stroke oil and while adding fuel, > inject the appropriate amount as the fuel is flowing. They used to do thi= s > with a product called Prist for Turbine engines. (although they used > aerosol cans with a tube which attached to the filler nozzle.) > > > > If you know that you are going to put 10 gal in your tank, when you start > fueling, squirt the stuff in in the beginning when you start to add your > fuel. Since the 2 stroke is or supposed to be miscible with fuel, adding = it > this way especially with the initial agitation of filling, despite the > baffles, it should evenly distribute. If you want, you can rock the wings= . > Remember, the baffles are not continuous and have relief ports at the > bottom of each. > > > > One question that I have about any of the 2 stroke oil bulk adding is is > there a difference between the brands on their misciblity? > > > > > > Rich > > > > In a message dated 5/21/2015 9:17:34 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: > > Bill, > > > > I used to pre-mix my oil & gas back when I was running auto gas > (non-ethanol), pumping into a fuel trailer at the nearby gas station. I > would pour the required amount of 2-stroke oil into the trailer tank, the= n > add fuel. By the time I was back at the airport it was well mixed. After > they started blending all mogas with ethanol, I was forced to go to 100LL > as my wing's adhesives are incompatible with alcohol. My wings have a > series of baffles, so adequate mixing became a problem. So, I switched t= o > the oil metering pump (OMP), using Richard Sohn's OMP adapter and drawing > from an auxiliary tank mounted on the firewall. Now, I just have to > remember to keep the oil tank full. I often add a small amount of 2-stro= ke > when filling the tanks, but that is probably overkill. > > > > It is my belief that the OMP puts the oil exactly where it needs to be, > directly on the apex seals rather than mixing in with the fuel only to be > burned up and blown out the exhaust, most of it never reaching the apex > seals. (Probably a topic for future discussion.) Anyway, I'm happy with > the OMP approach. It is a very simple pump and has proven effective in > millions of RX-7's and RX-8's. The one modification I made was to > fabricate steel oil lines to replace the plastic lines. > > > > Mark S. > > Lancair ES - 20B - pport > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 10:15 PM, Bill Bradburry < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > I decided to add oil to the fuel as I do the fill up back when I was > building. That was not a problem for a long time because I was buying fu= el > in a couple of 55 gal drums and hauling them on a trailer. I would add t= he > oil to the drum before I left the hangar to go to the gas station and the= n > just fill the drums. > > > > The first time that I tried to do this at an airport, it turned out to be > a PITA! The wind was blowing and it was cold and the oil was stringing > out all over me and the wing. Quite a mess! > > > > This makes me start to think of how can I measure and add this oil in a > neat clean and easy way. Now I know I am not the first guy to try and ga= s > up on a windy day so has anybody figured out how to do this in a cute way= ? > > > > I discovered a long time ago that the best inventions I can come up with > come off this list. How do you guys do this? > > > > Bill > > > > --001a11403efa1461210516a1a521 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The way I've been doing it for hundreds of hours = in the car is repurposing a plastic bottle created for additives or 2-strok= e oil.=C2=A0 Think of a Stabil bottle or the cheap 2-stroke oil from Wal Ma= rt. Squeezing the bottle fills an upper reservoir to a premeasured 3oz.=C2= =A0 For every 3 gallons pumped, it gets a full dose and=C2=A0 guestimate fr= om there.=C2=A0 It is easy to refill and holds ~24oz.=C2=A0 For 3gph, it wo= rks great by itself.=C2=A0 For aircraft, it would work for the odd gallons = after filling with a whole 20oz bottle or just topping off.=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Todd=C2=A0

On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Bill Bradburry <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Rich,<= /span>

=C2=A0=

The syringe is along= the kind of ideas I was thinking of.=C2=A0 I was thinking of perhaps a pump that put out a measured dose that you could insert into your oil container with a hose on the outle= t so that you could pump in however many squirts you needed.=C2=A0 You should be able to pump out of the gallon container you buy the oil in.=C2=A0 You coul= d then cap the hose so that it didn=E2=80=99t leak.=C2=A0 I also like that 12= pack cooler that Bobby mentioned as well to help keep this messy stuff organized= .

=C2=A0=

More ideas??<= u>

=C2=A0=

Bill <= /span>

=C2=A0=

From:<= font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"> Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015= 9:57 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Met= hod of adding oil to fuel

=C2=A0

Mark,

=C2=A0

Yes and no with th= e OMP.

=C2=A0

Forgetting about t= he small risk of failure of the OMP (which does happen), in the Renesis engines manufactured until, I believe 2004, the ports squirting the oil into the trochoids were insufficient (there were only 2 per rotor) and they had multiple problems, = so much so that Mazda, I am told, built a factory just to rebuild the Renesis&= #39; at no cost to the owners. If you have a pre-2005 renesis with 2 injection port= s per rotor don't even consider the OMP. If you want to consider the OMP,= that is a decision with pros and cons on each side which I will not go into.=

=C2=A0

One way of mixing = the fuel and oil is to get a large cappable poly syringe or syringes . Fill it (them)=C2=A0with 2 stroke oil and while adding fuel, inject the appropriate amount as the fuel= is flowing. They used to do this with a product called Prist for Turbine engin= es. (although they used aerosol cans with a tube which attached to the filler n= ozzle.)

=C2=A0

If you know that y= ou are going to put 10 gal in your tank, when you start fueling, squirt the stuff in in the beginn= ing when you start to add your fuel. Since the 2 stroke is or supposed to be=C2=A0miscible with fuel, adding it this way especially with the initial= =C2=A0agitation of filling, despite the baffles, it should evenly distribute. If you want, = you can rock the wings. Remember, the baffles are not continuous and have relie= f ports at the bottom of each.

=C2=A0

One question that = I have about any of the 2 stroke oil bulk adding is is there a difference between the brands on the= ir misciblity?

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Rich=

=C2=A0

In a message dated= 5/21/2015 9:17:34 A.M. Central Daylight Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

Bill,

=C2=A0

I used to pre-mix = my oil & gas back=C2=A0when I was running auto gas (non-ethanol), pumping into a fuel trailer at the nearby gas station.=C2=A0I would pour the required amount of 2-stroke oil into the trailer tank, then add fuel.=C2=A0 By the time=C2=A0I was=C2=A0back at the airport it was well mixed.=C2=A0After they started blending all mogas with ethanol, I was forced to go to 100LL as my wing'= ;s adhesives are incompatible with alcohol.=C2=A0 My wings have a series of baffles, so adequate mixing=C2=A0became a problem.=C2=A0 So, I switched to = the oil metering pump (OMP), using Richard Sohn's OMP adapter and drawing f= rom an auxiliary tank mounted on the firewall.=C2=A0 Now, I just have to remember = to keep the oil tank full.=C2=A0 I often add a small amount of 2-stroke when filling the tanks, but that is probably overkill.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

It is my belief th= at the OMP puts the oil exactly where it needs to be, directly on the apex seals rather than mixing= in with the fuel only to be burned up and blown out the exhaust, most of it ne= ver reaching the apex seals.=C2=A0 (Probably a topic for future discussion.)=C2= =A0 Anyway, I'm happy with the OMP approach.=C2=A0 It is a very simple pump= and has proven effective in millions of RX-7's and RX-8's.=C2=A0 The one mo= dification I made was to fabricate steel oil lines to replace the=C2=A0plastic lines.=C2= =A0

=C2=A0

Mark S.<= /u>

Lancair ES - 20B -= =C2=A0pport=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Wed, May 20, 20= 15 at 10:15 PM, Bill Bradburry <flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t> wrote:

I decided to add oil= to the fuel as I do the fill up back when I was building.=C2=A0 That was not a problem for a long time because I was bu= ying fuel in a couple of 55 gal drums and hauling them on a trailer.=C2=A0 I wou= ld add the oil to the drum before I left the hangar to go to the gas station a= nd then just fill the drums.

=C2=A0

The first time that = I tried to do this at an airport, it turned out to be a PITA!=C2=A0=C2=A0 The wind was blowing and it was cold and the oil = was stringing out all over me and the wing.=C2=A0 Quite a mess!

=C2=A0

This makes me start = to think of how can I measure and add this oil in a neat clean and easy way.=C2=A0 Now I know I am not the first guy to tr= y and gas up on a windy day so has anybody figured out how to do this in a cu= te way?=

=C2=A0

I discovered a long = time ago that the best inventions I can come up with come off this list.=C2=A0 How do you guys do this?

=C2=A0=

Bill <= font color=3D"#888888">

=C2=A0


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