X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Jeff Whaley" Received: from hub026-NJ-6.exch026.serverdata.net ([206.225.166.169] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.1.2) with ESMTPS id 7702992 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 20 May 2015 15:08:56 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.225.166.169; envelope-from=jwhaley@datacast.com Received: from MBX026-E1-NJ-2.exch026.domain.local ([10.240.14.52]) by HUB026-NJ-6.exch026.domain.local ([10.240.14.230]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Wed, 20 May 2015 12:08:18 -0700 To: "Steven W. Boese" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Return to Flight - 2 Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Return to Flight - 2 Thread-Index: AQHQkuPUt/J/lf8e0kmQga1RsqpnKJ2ExNjggAAnS6CAAD/UkA== Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 19:08:19 +0000 Message-ID: <234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A48EC96C1@mbx026-e1-nj-2.exch026.domain.local> References: <1432104961455.99353@uwyo.edu> Accept-Language: en-CA, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [209.87.232.162] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_005_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A48EC96C1mbx026e1nj2exch_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_005_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A48EC96C1mbx026e1nj2exch_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A48EC96C1mbx026e1nj2exch_" --_000_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A48EC96C1mbx026e1nj2exch_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve, the rubber body of the hose departed from the Twist-Tite connector, = the connector stayed attached to the AN fitting on the engine. I was able = to push the rubber hose back onto the Twist-Tite connector by hand but then= was unable to pull it back off again. I caused 2 engine stop/start situat= ions in-flight that day by selecting a faulty fuel pump. I believe the 2 r= estarts from near windmill to instantaneous 5700 rpm created pressure pulse= s at the barbed hose connection; the hot oil-heated rubber hose ballooned u= nder pressure and slipped up over the barbs on the connector. That hose ha= d 15 flight hours on it - without the engine surges/pressure pulses it woul= d not have failed that day - though it was bound to happen - a simple stain= less worm clamp would have kept it together. It was the only hose of that = type in my oil system. Lesson is there are high quality push-on connectors= and there are poor quality push-on connectors. I now use the AQP fittings= and AQP stainless Racing Hose everywhere in the oil system. Jeff From: Steven W. Boese Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Return to Flight - 2 Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 17:16:59 +0000 To: Rotary motors in aircraft [Message Header] [Undecoded Message] Jeff, I did notice the oil pump outlet connection location in the photos. Unless= the passage in the front iron going to the front cover O-ring has been plu= gged, capping the original front cover port still leaves the O-ring subject= to the oil pump outlet pressure. I used the same front iron oil pump outlet location that you are using. Th= at location is connected to an FC598-10 Aeroquip Socketless AQP hose which = is the same type of hose that failed for you. Did the hose itself fail or = was the failure at the connection? While the oil pressure and temperature = in the hose are well within the specs for the hose I am using, your experie= nce has me reconsidering that decision. Maybe the specs refer to the hose = itself and not the actual connection? Steve From: Jeff Whaley Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 12:51 PM To: 'Steven W. Boese' Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Return to Flight - 2 Steve, one thing I forgot to mention: Due to the potential of front-cover,= o-ring failure I elected to not use that port and capped it. I removed a = brass plug from the front iron and tapped that port to accept a 16mm to fla= red AN fitting - that is where oil comes out of my engine. If you look car= efully at the last two photos posted you can see it. Jeff From: Jeff Whaley Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 10:11 AM To: 'Steven W. Boese' Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Return to Flight - 2 Hi Steve, thank you for another detailed explanation; I know you have done = a great deal of instrumentation on these engines and I appreciate your feed= back - those plots are priceless. My oil temperature probe is mounted at the return port after the second oil= cooler; my coolant temperature probe is mounted near the water pump outlet= . The Mazda oil cooler was NOT installed when the hose failed. So from your explanation, the Mazda oil cooler is not the best choice for a= viation use whether it's a single cooler or linked in series? It would not take too much effort (2-3 hours) for me to remove the Mazda co= oler and reinstall my second Fluidyne where it was previously mounted; I ke= pt the cowl openings the same and adapted the Mazda oil cooler install to f= it. I would have to go back to installing cover plates for winter operatio= ns to control oil temperature - I can live with that and with synthetic oil= , cool oil is not a huge issue. When I get the coolant temperature under control, time to re-experiment wit= h only one oil cooler - two is definitely overkill for winter operations. Jeff This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the a= ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauth= orized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message= in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal= records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. --_000_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A48EC96C1mbx026e1nj2exch_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Steve, the rubber body of= the hose departed from the Twist-Tite connector, the connector stayed atta= ched to the AN fitting on the engine.  I was able to push the rubber hose back onto the Twist-Tite connector by hand but then was un= able to pull it back off again.  I caused 2 engine stop/start situatio= ns in-flight that day by selecting a faulty fuel pump.  I believe the = 2 restarts from near windmill to instantaneous 5700 rpm created pressure pulses at the barbed hose connection; the hot oi= l-heated rubber hose ballooned under pressure and slipped up over the barbs= on the connector.  That hose had 15 flight hours on it – withou= t the engine surges/pressure pulses it would not have failed that day – though it was bound to happen – a s= imple stainless worm clamp would have kept it together.  It was the on= ly hose of that type in my oil system.  Lesson is there are high quali= ty push-on connectors and there are poor quality push-on connectors.  I now use the AQP fittings and AQP stainless Racing Hose= everywhere in the oil system.   Jeff

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

From:

Steven W. Boese <flyrotary@lancaironline.net><= o:p>

Subject:

Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Return to Flight - 2<= /p>

Date:

Wed, 20 May 2015 17:16:59 +0000

To:

Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net>

3D"Message

3D"Undecoded

Jeff,

I did notice the oil pump outlet connection location in the photos.=   Unless the passage in the front iron going to the front cover O-ring= has been plugged, capping the original front cover port still leaves the O-ring subject to the oil pump outlet pressure.

I used the same front iron oil pump outlet location that you are us= ing.  That location is connected to an FC598-10 Aeroquip Socketless AQ= P hose which is the same type of hose that failed for you.  Did the hose itself fail or was the failure at the connection?  While= the oil pressure and temperature in the hose are well within the specs for= the hose I am using, your experience has me reconsidering that decision.&n= bsp; Maybe the specs refer to the hose itself and not the actual connection?

Steve

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

From: Jeff Wha= ley
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 12:51 PM
To: 'Steven W. Boese'
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Return to Flight - 2<= /p>

 

Steve, one thing I forgot= to mention:  Due to the potential of front-cover, o-ring failure I el= ected to not use that port and capped it.  I removed a brass plug from the front iron and tapped that port to accept a 16mm to flared A= N fitting – that is where oil comes out of my engine.  If you lo= ok carefully at the last two photos posted you can see it.

Jeff

 <= /p>

From: Jeff Wha= ley
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 10:11 AM
To: 'Steven W. Boese'
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Return to Flight - 2<= /p>

 

Hi Steve, thank you for a= nother detailed explanation; I know you have done a great deal of instrumen= tation on these engines and I appreciate your feedback – those plots are priceless.

My oil temperature probe = is mounted at the return port after the second oil cooler; my coolant tempe= rature probe is mounted near the water pump outlet.  The Mazda oil cooler was NOT installed when the hose failed.=

So from your explanation,= the Mazda oil cooler is not the best choice for aviation use whether it= 217;s a single cooler or linked in series?

It would not take too muc= h effort (2-3 hours) for me to remove the Mazda cooler and reinstall my sec= ond Fluidyne where it was previously mounted; I kept the cowl openings the same and adapted the Mazda oil cooler install to fit.&nb= sp; I would have to go back to installing cover plates for winter operation= s to control oil temperature – I can live with that and with syntheti= c oil, cool oil is not a huge issue.

When I get the coolant te= mperature under control, time to re-experiment with only one oil cooler = 211; two is definitely overkill for winter operations.

Jeff

 <= /p>

This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the a= ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauth= orized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message= in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the origin= al message. Thank you. --_000_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A48EC96C1mbx026e1nj2exch_-- --_005_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A48EC96C1mbx026e1nj2exch_ Content-Type: image/gif; name="image001.gif" Content-Description: image001.gif Content-Disposition: inline; filename="image001.gif"; size=849; creation-date="Wed, 20 May 2015 19:08:19 GMT"; modification-date="Wed, 20 May 2015 19:08:19 GMT" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODdhCgANAPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgMDAwMDcwKbK8AAAAAAAKgAAVQAAfwAA qgAA1AAqAAAqKgAqVQAqfwAqqgAq1ABVAABVKgBVVQBVfwBVqgBV1AB/AAB/KgB/VQB/fwB/qgB/ 1ACqAACqKgCqVQCqfwCqqgCq1ADUAADUKgDUVQDUfwDUqgDU1CoAACoAKioAVSoAfyoAqioA1Coq ACoqKioqVSoqfyoqqioq1CpVACpVKipVVSpVfypVqipV1Cp/ACp/Kip/VSp/fyp/qip/1CqqACqq KiqqVSqqfyqqqiqq1CrUACrUKirUVSrUfyrUqirU1FUAAFUAKlUAVVUAf1UAqlUA1FUqAFUqKlUq VVUqf1UqqlUq1FVVAFVVKlVVVVVVf1VVqlVV1FV/AFV/KlV/VVV/f1V/qlV/1FWqAFWqKlWqVVWq f1WqqlWq1FXUAFXUKlXUVVXUf1XUqlXU1H8AAH8AKn8AVX8Af38Aqn8A1H8qAH8qKn8qVX8qf38q qn8q1H9VAH9VKn9VVX9Vf39Vqn9V1H9/AH9/Kn9/VX9/f39/qn9/1H+qAH+qKn+qVX+qf3+qqn+q 1H/UAH/UKn/UVX/Uf3/Uqn/U1KoAAKoAKqoAVaoAf6oAqqoA1KoqAKoqKqoqVaoqf6oqqqoq1KpV AKpVKqpVVapVf6pVqqpV1Kp/AKp/Kqp/Vap/f6p/qqp/1KqqAKqqKqqqVaqqf6qqqqqq1KrUAKrU KqrUVarUf6rUqqrU1NQAANQAKtQAVdQAf9QAqtQA1NQqANQqKtQqVdQqf9QqqtQq1NRVANRVKtRV VdRVf9RVqtRV1NR/ANR/KtR/VdR/f9R/qtR/1NSqANSqKtSqVdSqf9SqqtSq1NTUANTUKtTUVdTU f9TUqtTU1AAAAAwMDBkZGSYmJjMzMz8/P0xMTFlZWWZmZnJycn9/f4yMjJmZmaWlpbKysr+/v8zM zNjY2OXl5fLy8v/78KCgpICAgP8AAAD/AP//AAAA//8A/wD//////ywAAAAACgANAAAINgDxCRw4 EAC+fwgTIjT4DwCAAwIXHlSYkKHDhxEZUpTYEONEjRstOoR4ECRFkSQ5bux4saXDgAA7 --_005_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A48EC96C1mbx026e1nj2exch_ Content-Type: image/gif; name="image002.gif" Content-Description: image002.gif Content-Disposition: inline; filename="image002.gif"; size=857; creation-date="Wed, 20 May 2015 19:08:19 GMT"; modification-date="Wed, 20 May 2015 19:08:19 GMT" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODdhCgANAPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgMDAwMDcwKbK8AAAAAAAKgAAVQAAfwAA qgAA1AAqAAAqKgAqVQAqfwAqqgAq1ABVAABVKgBVVQBVfwBVqgBV1AB/AAB/KgB/VQB/fwB/qgB/ 1ACqAACqKgCqVQCqfwCqqgCq1ADUAADUKgDUVQDUfwDUqgDU1CoAACoAKioAVSoAfyoAqioA1Coq ACoqKioqVSoqfyoqqioq1CpVACpVKipVVSpVfypVqipV1Cp/ACp/Kip/VSp/fyp/qip/1CqqACqq KiqqVSqqfyqqqiqq1CrUACrUKirUVSrUfyrUqirU1FUAAFUAKlUAVVUAf1UAqlUA1FUqAFUqKlUq VVUqf1UqqlUq1FVVAFVVKlVVVVVVf1VVqlVV1FV/AFV/KlV/VVV/f1V/qlV/1FWqAFWqKlWqVVWq f1WqqlWq1FXUAFXUKlXUVVXUf1XUqlXU1H8AAH8AKn8AVX8Af38Aqn8A1H8qAH8qKn8qVX8qf38q qn8q1H9VAH9VKn9VVX9Vf39Vqn9V1H9/AH9/Kn9/VX9/f39/qn9/1H+qAH+qKn+qVX+qf3+qqn+q 1H/UAH/UKn/UVX/Uf3/Uqn/U1KoAAKoAKqoAVaoAf6oAqqoA1KoqAKoqKqoqVaoqf6oqqqoq1KpV AKpVKqpVVapVf6pVqqpV1Kp/AKp/Kqp/Vap/f6p/qqp/1KqqAKqqKqqqVaqqf6qqqqqq1KrUAKrU KqrUVarUf6rUqqrU1NQAANQAKtQAVdQAf9QAqtQA1NQqANQqKtQqVdQqf9QqqtQq1NRVANRVKtRV VdRVf9RVqtRV1NR/ANR/KtR/VdR/f9R/qtR/1NSqANSqKtSqVdSqf9SqqtSq1NTUANTUKtTUVdTU f9TUqtTU1AAAAAwMDBkZGSYmJjMzMz8/P0xMTFlZWWZmZnJycn9/f4yMjJmZmaWlpbKysr+/v8zM zNjY2OXl5fLy8v/78KCgpICAgP8AAAD/AP//AAAA//8A/wD//////ywAAAAACgANAAAIPgDxCRw4 EAC+fwcQKjxgMCHDhAD+GUQYEcDDhhIzVjwIkSJDfA8zQjxYUWRDixVHmnSI0aHCiS5ZAphJs2ZA ADs= --_005_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A48EC96C1mbx026e1nj2exch_--