X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Bill Bradburry" Received: from vms173025pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.25] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.9e) with ESMTP id 7084811 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 08 Aug 2014 12:14:10 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.46.173.25; envelope-from=bbradburry@verizon.net Received: from Desktop ([unknown] [173.57.170.65]) by vms173025.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0N9Z00JN3X2N8M60@vms173025.mailsrvcs.net> for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 08 Aug 2014 11:13:36 -0500 (CDT) To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-reply-to: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Trip report Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2014 11:13:35 -0500 Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01CFB2F9.CC01BAE0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: Ac+y2MaAkI1BIMCMT9qJoKcXRKE/rQASsM2A X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01CFB2F9.CC01BAE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Air nav tells you where, but not how, to buy the Mogas. :>) Fuel available: 100LL MOGAS MOGAS AVBL FM STATION ATTENDANT ACROSS FM HGRS. Bill _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2014 2:16 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Trip report Bill, I just returned from a XC trip from Laramie, WY to Kalispell, Mt to Benson, MN and back to Laramie. 2054 nm 14.8 hr in flight 116.5 gal mogas which calculates to: 7.87 gal/hr fuel burn 17.6 nm/gal or 20.3 sm/gal 139 Kt TAS or 160 mph other cruise parameters: OAT 45-50 deg 9500 - 12500 ft msl 5600-5700 engine rpm, 2.18 gear ratio 69" Warp Drive 3-blade ground adjustable prop with aft side of prop tip set to 16.5 degrees 18" MAP EGT of ~1650 deg, narrow band O2 sensors offscale 190 deg coolant temp (thermostat controlled) 185 deg oil temp (inlet door controlled) winds aloft were not much of a factor The procedure to buy Mogas at Stanford, MT (S64) was unusual: Land at the airport, taxi out of the airport and turn right onto US highway 87, turn left at the Sinclair gas station, maneuver to the pump, and ignore the bewildered motorists. Steve Boese RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2 _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft on behalf of Bill Bradburry Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 4:08 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Trip report Mark, I suppose that your prop speed limits your engine rpm to about 6100 max? At 8000-10000 ft, can you go WOT without over speeding your prop? If you can and have, what TAS and fuel burn do you get? When I moved my plane from Florida to Texas, I could only get to about 2000-3000 ft due to ceiling and headwinds. I have the Renesis with the 2.85 PSRU and the MT electric 3 blade c/s prop. I was getting 161-163 knots(185-188 mph) TAS with WOT, 6000 rpm, burning 9-10 gpm. I had the engine leaned to an A/F ratio of 16 using the wide band O2 sensor. I almost always fly WOT in order to reduce pumping losses in the engine and I use the prop to control the engine rpm and therefore power. The only time I use the throttle to control the engine power is as I approach the airport for landing. Any others with performance numbers on their flying airplane? Ed, we haven't heard from you in a while, how are you doing? Bill _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 3:58 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Trip report Tracy, Thanks for posting your numbers. I typically fly below 10,000, but at the same rpm, higher MAP. Typical cruise is 195-200 mph, burning around 11.2-11.5 gph. Maybe I should slow down, or fly higher. For those unfamiliar with my setup, it is a Lancair ES, 20B-PP, 2.17:1 psru, M/T electric 3-blade c/s prop. Mark S. On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Tracy wrote: Here's some trip data from a flight from Florida to Colorado in the 20B powered RV-8. It's the first long trip where I was able to fly at or near the altitudes it was optimized for. It didn't do as well as I had hoped in terms of fuel economy but the numbers were as good or slightly better than the typical Lycoming powered RV numbers I hear. It is only slightly faster than my Renesis powered RV-4 at cruise conditions and reasonable fuel flow. But what I like about it is the effortlessness with which it does the job. There is always a handful of throttle left for reserve in any normal flight situation. Full throttle is reserved for those few seconds between rudder effectiveness at 30mph and lift off speed at 60. As soon as the wheels break ground I typically reduce manifold pressure to 24". Cruise climb is done at between 18 and 19" depending on takeoff weight at around 700 FPM. Cruise altitude was limited to 15,000 this trip by temperature. I wasn't thinking and wore only a thin jacket and I don't have cabin heat. All three legs were flown at 14,500 in a very unusual high pressure system the whole way with almost zero wind. Here are the raw numbers: Altitude 14,500 OAT 35 - 43F TAS 174 - 182 MPH * Fuel Flow 8 GPH Engine RPM 5250 - 5450 Manifold Pressure 14.3" % Power 30% (As calculated by EM3) EGT 1450F Water temp 145 - 150 Oil Temp 160 (Cowl flap would help temps and airspeed) Total flight hours on trip 9.2 * Fuel flow was held constant, TAS varied with fuel batch. Low number was with Florida gas with about 8% ethanol. Refueled at Charlie England's place (Thanks for the hospitality and fuel service Charlie!). Not sure wether it had ethanol or not but TAS was a few MPH better. After refueling at 47K in Kansas with no ethanol mogas, the TAS reached the highest number. Tracy Sent from my iPad -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01CFB2F9.CC01BAE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Air nav tells you where, but not = how, to buy the Mogas…  :>)

 

Fuel = available: 

100LL MOGAS
MOGAS AVBL FM STATION ATTENDANT ACROSS FM = HGRS.

 

Bill

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Friday, August 08, = 2014 2:16 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Trip report

 

Bill,

 

I just returned from a XC trip from = Laramie, WY to = Kalispell, Mt to Benson, MN and back to Laramie.

2054 nm

14.8 hr in = flight

116.5 gal = mogas

which calculates = to:

7.87 gal/hr fuel = burn

17.6 nm/gal or 20.3 = sm/gal

139 Kt TAS or 160 = mph

other cruise = parameters:

OAT 45-50 = deg

9500 - 12500 ft = msl

5600-5700 engine rpm, 2.18 gear = ratio

69" Warp Drive 3-blade ground = adjustable prop with aft side of prop tip set to 16.5 = degrees

18" = MAP

EGT of ~1650 deg, narrow band O2 = sensors offscale

 190 deg coolant temp (thermostat controlled)

185 deg oil temp (inlet door = controlled)

winds aloft were not much of a = factor

 

The procedure to buy Mogas at Stanford, MT (S64) was unusual:  Land at = the airport, taxi out of the airport and turn right onto US highway 87, turn left = at the Sinclair gas station, maneuver to the pump, and ignore the bewildered motorists.

 

Steve Boese
RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2

From: Rotary motors in = aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> on behalf of Bill Bradburry = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August = 06, 2014 4:08 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Trip report

 <= /o:p>

Mark,

 

I suppose that your prop speed = limits your engine rpm to about 6100 max?   At 8000-10000 ft, can you go = WOT without over speeding your prop?  If you can and have, what TAS and fuel = burn do you get?

 

When I moved my plane from = Florida to Texas, I could only get to about 2000-3000 ft due to ceiling and = headwinds.  I have the Renesis with the 2.85 PSRU and the MT electric 3 blade c/s = prop.  I was getting 161-163 knots(185-188 mph) TAS with WOT, 6000 rpm, burning = 9-10 gpm.  I had the engine leaned to an A/F ratio of 16 using the wide = band O2 sensor.  I almost always fly WOT in order to reduce pumping losses = in the engine and I use the prop to control the engine rpm and therefore = power.  The only time I use the throttle to control the engine power is as I = approach the airport for landing.

 

Any others with performance numbers = on their flying airplane?

 

Ed, we haven’t heard from you = in a while, how are you doing?

 

Bill

 

From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August = 06, 2014 3:58 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Trip report

 <= /p>

Tracy,

Thanks for posting your = numbers. I typically fly below 10,000, but at the same rpm, higher MAP. Typical = cruise is 195-200 mph, burning around 11.2-11.5 gph. Maybe I should slow down, or = fly higher.

For those unfamiliar with my = setup, it is a Lancair ES, 20B-PP, 2.17:1 psru, M/T electric 3-blade c/s prop. =

Mark = S.

 <= /p>

On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 1:38 PM, = Tracy <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Here's some trip data from a = flight from Florida to Colorado in the 20B powered RV-8. = It's the first long trip where I was able to fly at or near the altitudes it was optimized for. It didn't do as well as I had hoped in terms of fuel = economy but the numbers were as good or slightly better than the typical Lycoming = powered RV numbers I hear. It is only slightly faster than my Renesis powered = RV-4 at cruise conditions and reasonable fuel flow. But what I like about it is = the effortlessness with which it does the job. There is always a handful of throttle left for reserve in any normal flight situation.

Full throttle is reserved for those few seconds between rudder = effectiveness at 30mph and lift off speed at 60. As soon as the wheels break ground I = typically reduce manifold pressure to 24". Cruise climb is done at between 18 = and 19" depending on takeoff weight at around 700 FPM. Cruise altitude = was limited to 15,000 this trip by temperature. I wasn't thinking and wore = only a thin jacket and I don't have cabin heat. All three legs were flown at = 14,500 in a very unusual high pressure system the whole way with almost zero wind. = Here are the raw numbers:

Altitude 14,500
OAT 35 - 43F
TAS 174 - 182 MPH *
Fuel Flow 8 GPH
Engine RPM 5250 - 5450
Manifold Pressure 14.3"
% Power 30% (As calculated by EM3)
EGT 1450F
Water temp 145 - 150
Oil Temp 160 (Cowl flap would help temps and airspeed)
Total flight hours on trip 9.2

* Fuel flow was held constant, TAS varied with fuel batch. Low number = was with Florida gas = with about 8% ethanol. Refueled at Charlie England's place (Thanks for the = hospitality and fuel service Charlie!). Not sure wether it had ethanol or not but TAS = was a few MPH better. After refueling at 47K in Kansas with no ethanol mogas, the TAS reached the highest number.

Tracy

Sent from my iPad
--
Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.h= tml

 <= /p>

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