X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: Received: from qmta08.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.80] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.9e) with ESMTP id 7084586 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 08 Aug 2014 09:50:35 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.62.80; envelope-from=hoursaway1@comcast.net Received: from omta24.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.76]) by qmta08.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id cCTE1o0041ei1Bg58Dpzkp; Fri, 08 Aug 2014 13:49:59 +0000 Received: from resmail-ch2-632v.sys.comcast.net ([162.150.50.156]) by omta24.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id cDpz1o00H3NCDde3kDpzQr; Fri, 08 Aug 2014 13:49:59 +0000 Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 13:49:58 +0000 (UTC) To: "Fly rotary blog, e-mail" Message-ID: <1176523382.7783956.1407505798893.JavaMail.root@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Heated Seats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7783955_1984003993.1407505798892" X-Originating-IP: [::ffff:76.112.43.44] X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.0.3_GA_5664 (ZimbraWebClient - FF31 (Win)/8.0.3_GA_5664) Thread-Topic: Heated Seats Thread-Index: hTJhI2UlltrIsHTh3Meta+SuoqiEdQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1407505799; bh=cjM3gK6IBjilE1d2zkh7TVWtlUeA/9Eb+crf4l55dIA=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=TPv0nXJAW4rNlfIpj7NKhBs4n+XHorZksY4my5NP0DSpOBp2m/MyBQ3g5zqjLu4yX xdlj3vJA3km0JU54cJRp10LJsnf7pCElUvurtz1BQu8Vi0eBGTCGMHPTxyuGwEpSBR CZrFVwytUYVjcHedYc56aLcMh42zyaR24nwCbqQbMjfbPHcPn0wSw4alsb5m1wamqH d8YSrjWp/NgGSh/Eg4hT6mAq1W+0hZhDl1oviXd/vM2DChUYohtw2qWhCYO6s5SurU P+ptR2MTK8Q6Zz/xkadyNOkzEUP7DugkNX2pMxKNkxCt8pI8YyrqoM4aRxIFEzgfXF PhM4Ku4wxidgQ== ------=_Part_7783955_1984003993.1407505798892 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I do want to say also the product design has changed to try to cure the pro= b. by having stronger, no stretch material as backing for metallic grids. T= he early design was more for comfort & so you could not feel it in the seat= , now I see you can also get heated seats with cloth seats, in past was onl= y with leather. David=20 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fly rotary blog, e-mail" =20 To: "Fly rotary blog, e-mail" =20 Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2014 3:21:43 PM=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Heated Seats=20 I wonder if the heat will have an adverse effect on any of the 'memory foam= ' type seat foams. 120 degrees is nothing, but 140+ makes me wonder a bit.= =20 Charlie=20 On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 11:54 AM, hoursaway1 < flyrotary@lancaironline.net >= wrote:=20 One problem is that with most of our aircraft we have to step onto the seat= to enter cockpit. In the automotive world we have discovered the highest n= umber of heated seat failures comes from cust. nealing on the seats to do w= hatever, element breakages are main failure mode. With that being said, I h= ave the elements, switch & relay to install on my RV6A some day. David R. C= ook ASE Auto Tech 36 years, RV6A Rotary.=20 From: "Fly rotary blog, e-mail" < flyrotary@lancaironline.net >=20 To: "Fly rotary blog, e-mail" < flyrotary@lancaironline.net >=20 Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2014 9:34:08 AM=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Heated Seats=20 Here is the product description from the web site. 3-5 amps.=20 Carbon Fiber technology, heats up in seconds with even heat distribution=20 3 Year Warranty for the heat pads. 1 Year Warranty for the Electric parts.= =20 Deluxe illuminated Dual Temperature High/Off/Low Round Switch=20 Dual Temperature Control System Electronic thermostat (built into each pad)= regulates the electricity / temperature circulating within the carbon fibe= r seat heating pad. This system regulates the flow of power and maintains a= narrower temperature range whether in a high or low setting.=20 Example: The high setting will have a constant range between 140=C2=B0F to = 145=C2=B0F. The low setting ranges between 120=C2=B0F to 125=C2=B0F. These = respective temperatures are maintained at these respective levels.=20 Included in the wiring harness is a relay that controls the power / tempera= ture of the heating pads from high to low with an in-line fuse. Backrest & = Seat Bottom Heating Pads -- 18" x 11" Pads are approximately 1/32" thick. E= ither pad can be installed in back or bottom.=20 Electrical Specs Wattage: 24~36 Watts per Pad, 48~60 Watts per seat Current= Draw: 3 Amps on Low Heat Setting and 5 Amps on High Setting per Seat. It i= s a 12 V system=20 Bob J. Rogers=20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto: flyrotary@lancaironline.net ]=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 7:37 PM=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Heated Seats=20 Sounds like the perfect solution Dave. I wondered what results were using w= ater or oil. I'm relieved not to have to even think about doing the plumbin= g either would involve. Will go shopping for the seats and look for the spe= cs but do you know the current draw off hand?=20 Tracy=20 Sent from my iPad=20 On Aug 6, 2014, at 13:35, "David Leonard" < flyrotary@lancaironline.net > w= rote:=20
Hi Tracy, thanks for the trip report!.=20 The rotary is hard to get cabin heat. The exhaust is bigger diameter than m= ost aircraft exhaust, so off the shelf heat muffs are hard to come by, not = to mention difficult to fit (finding space) and potentially dangerous. I ha= ve had poor success at getting sufficient heat off the oil or water cooler.= So besides sealing up cabin leaks, I found the soulution, heated seats.=20 Got these on Amazon for $45 for TWO seats. Installed in a couple of hours. = Work great. My tush can only take the high setting for 20 min or so. Makes = all the difference.=20 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005PJ334G=20 Dave Leonard=20 Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=20 On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 11:38 AM, Tracy < flyrotary@lancaironline.net > wrot= e:=20 Here's some trip data from a flight from Florida to Colorado in the 20B pow= ered RV-8. It's the first long trip where I was able to fly at or near the = altitudes it was optimized for. It didn't do as well as I had hoped in term= s of fuel economy but the numbers were as good or slightly better than the = typical Lycoming powered RV numbers I hear. It is only slightly faster than= my Renesis powered RV-4 at cruise conditions and reasonable fuel flow. But= what I like about it is the effortlessness with which it does the job. The= re is always a handful of throttle left for reserve in any normal flight si= tuation.=20 Full throttle is reserved for those few seconds between rudder effectivenes= s at 30mph and lift off speed at 60. As soon as the wheels break ground I t= ypically reduce manifold pressure to 24". Cruise climb is done at between 1= 8 and 19" depending on takeoff weight at around 700 FPM. Cruise altitude wa= s limited to 15,000 this trip by temperature. I wasn't thinking and wore on= ly a thin jacket and I don't have cabin heat. All three legs were flown at = 14,500 in a very unusual high pressure system the whole way with almost zer= o wind. Here are the raw numbers:=20 Altitude 14,500=20 OAT 35 - 43F=20 TAS 174 - 182 MPH *=20 Fuel Flow 8 GPH=20 Engine RPM 5250 - 5450=20 Manifold Pressure 14.3"=20 % Power 30% (As calculated by EM3)=20 EGT 1450F=20 Water temp 145 - 150=20 Oil Temp 160 (Cowl flap would help temps and airspeed)=20 Total flight hours on trip 9.2=20 * Fuel flow was held constant, TAS varied with fuel batch. Low number was w= ith Florida gas with about 8% ethanol. Refueled at Charlie England's place = (Thanks for the hospitality and fuel service Charlie!). Not sure wether it = had ethanol or not but TAS was a few MPH better. After refueling at 47K in = Kansas with no ethanol mogas, the TAS reached the highest number.=20 Tracy=20 Sent from my iPad=20 --=20 Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.ht= ml=20
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I do want to say also the product desi= gn has changed to try to cure the prob. by having stronger, no stretch mate= rial as backing for metallic grids. The early design was more for comfort &= amp; so you could not feel it in the seat, now I see you can also get heate= d seats with cloth seats, in past was only with leather.  David

From: "Fly rotary blog, e-mail" <flyr= otary@lancaironline.net>
To: "Fly rotary blog, e-mail" <fly= rotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2014 3:21:= 43 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Heated Seats

I wonder if the heat will have an adverse effect on any of th= e 'memory foam' type seat foams. 120 degrees is nothing, but 140+ makes me = wonder a bit.

Charlie


On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 11= :54 AM, hoursaway1 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
One problem is that with most of our aircraft we ha= ve to step onto the seat to enter cockpit. In the automotive world we have = discovered the highest number of heated seat failures comes from cust. neal= ing on the seats to do whatever, element breakages are main failure mode.&n= bsp;With that being said, I have the elements, switch & relay to instal= l on my RV6A some day.    David R. Cook ASE Auto Tech 36 yea= rs, RV6A Rotary.

From: "Fly rotary blog, e-mail= " <flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t>
To: "Fly rotary blog, e-mail" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: = Thursday, August 7, 2014 9:34:08 AM

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Heated Seats

Here is the product description from the web site. = 3-5 amps.

 

Carbon Fiber technology, heats up in seconds with even heat dist= ribution


3 Year Warranty for the hea= t pads. 1 Year Warranty for the Electric parts.

Deluxe illuminated = Dual Temperature High/Off/Low Round Switch


Dual Temperature Control System Electronic thermostat (built into ea= ch pad) regulates the electricity / temperature circulating within the carb= on fiber seat heating pad. This system regulates the flow of power and main= tains a narrower temperature range whether in a high or low setting.
Example: The high setting will have a constant range between 140=C2=B0F t= o 145=C2=B0F. The low setting ranges between 120=C2=B0F to 125=C2=B0F. Thes= e respective temperatures are maintained at these respective levels.


Included in the wiring harness is a relay = that controls the power / temperature of the heating pads from high to low = with an in-line fuse. Backrest & Seat Bottom Heating Pads -- 18" x 11" = Pads are approximately 1/32" thick. Either pad can be installed in back or = bottom.

Electrical Specs Wattage: 24~36 Watts per Pad, 48~60 Watts pe= r seat Current Draw: 3 Amps on Low Heat Setting and 5 Amps on High Setting = per Seat. It is a 12 V system

 

Bob J. Rogers

<= div style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTT= OM:0in;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORD= ER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt" data-mce-style=3D"border-bottom: medi= um none; border-left: medium none; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; = padding-right: 0in; border-top: #b5c4df 1pt solid; border-right: medium non= e; padding-top: 3pt;">

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] <= br> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 7:37 PM
To: Rotary mo= tors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Heated Seats

=

 

So= unds like the perfect solution Dave.  I wondered what results were usi= ng water or oil.  I'm relieved not to have to even think about doing t= he plumbing either would involve.  Will go shopping for the seats and = look for the specs but do you know the current draw off hand?

 

Tracy


Sent from my iPad


On Aug 6, 2014, at 13:35, "David Leonard" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wro= te:

Hi Tracy, thanks for the trip report!.

 

The rotary is hard to get cab= in heat.  The exhaust is bigger diameter than most aircraft exhaust, s= o off the shelf heat muffs are hard to come by, not to mention difficult to= fit (finding space) and potentially dangerous.  I have had poor succe= ss at getting sufficient heat off the oil or water cooler.  So besides= sealing up cabin leaks, I found the soulution, heated seats. 

 

G= ot these on Amazon for $45 for TWO seats.  Installed in a couple of ho= urs.  Work great.  My tush can only take the high setting for 20 = min or so.  Makes all the difference.

 

 = ;

Dave Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY

=  

 

 

On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 11:38 AM, Tra= cy <flyrotary@lancaironline.n= et> wrote:

Here's some trip data from a fl= ight from Florida to Colorado in the 20B powered RV-8.    It's th= e first long trip where I was able to fly at or near the altitudes it was o= ptimized for.   It didn't do as well as I had hoped in terms of fuel e= conomy but the numbers were as good or slightly better than the typical Lyc= oming powered RV numbers I hear.   It is only slightly faster than my = Renesis powered RV-4 at cruise conditions and reasonable fuel flow.  B= ut what I like about it is the effortlessness with which it does the job. &= nbsp;There is always a handful of throttle left for reserve in any normal f= light situation.

Full throttle is reserved for those few seconds be= tween rudder effectiveness at 30mph and lift off speed at 60.  As soon= as the wheels break ground I typically reduce manifold pressure to 24". &n= bsp; Cruise climb is done at between 18 and 19" depending on takeoff weight= at around 700 FPM.  Cruise altitude was limited to 15,000 this trip b= y temperature.  I wasn't thinking and wore only a thin jacket and I do= n't have cabin heat.   All three legs were flown at 14,500 in a very u= nusual high pressure system the whole way with almost zero wind.  Here= are the raw numbers:

Altitude       14,500
OAT &= nbsp;            35 -  43F
TAS  =            174  -   182 MPH  = *
Fuel Flow     8 GPH
Engine RPM  5250 - 5450
Manif= old Pressure    14.3"
% Power       30%   = (As calculated by EM3)
EGT             &n= bsp;1450F
Water temp   145 - 150
Oil Temp       1= 60        (Cowl flap would help temps and airspeed)
= Total flight hours on trip  9.2


*  Fuel flow was held constant, TAS varied with fuel batch. &nb= sp;Low number was with Florida gas with about 8% ethanol.   Refueled a= t Charlie England's place (Thanks for the hospitality and fuel service Char= lie!).  Not sure wether it had ethanol or not but TAS was a few MPH be= tter.   After refueling at 47K in Kansas with no ethanol mogas, the TA= S reached the highest number.

Tracy


Sent from my iPad
--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

 




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