X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: "Bill Bradburry" Received: from vms173019pub.verizon.net ([206.46.173.19] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.9e) with ESMTP id 7081938 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 06 Aug 2014 21:00:25 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.46.173.19; envelope-from=bbradburry@verizon.net Received: from Desktop ([unknown] [173.57.170.65]) by vms173019.mailsrvcs.net (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 7u2-7.02 32bit (built Apr 16 2009)) with ESMTPA id <0N9W00DTIW3M8D30@vms173019.mailsrvcs.net> for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 06 Aug 2014 19:59:47 -0500 (CDT) To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-reply-to: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Trip report Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2014 19:59:49 -0500 Message-id: <98F85511308049E79DAA0E9BD2AB8FB8@Desktop> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01CFB1B0.FAA4D2A0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-index: Ac+xzNThM2vluU3qT7iSaXV0dk2XpwACtCoA X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CFB1B0.FAA4D2A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nasty! Nasty! Nasty! :>) I haven't heard from Bobby in a while. He was considering swapping that SC for a turbo. Made his mind up yet? How does that speed compare with your ES cousins? That fuel flow indicates about 200 hp. Have you tried it at a higher rpm? You could probably generate 300 hp or so with that PP 20B at 7000 or so. That would give you a 27-28 gpm fuel flow and probably 220-225 speed? That should run like an ES with an IO550 engine. I left Sanford, Fl a while back with my son in his Turbo Saratoga following me in a flight of two. He came over the radio saying "Slow Down! I am burning 30 gpm back here and you are still pulling away from me!" . :>) Best thing I had heard in a long time! :>) I set my prop for a 7000 rpm take off, showing about 17-18 gpm, what do you use? I wouldn't take my fuel flow to the bank as I am not certain of the calibration yet. Bill _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 6:19 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Trip report Bill, I stated my gear ratio is 2.17:1 in error. I'm actually running the RD-2C which is the 2.85:1 gear set. Typically, I run wot too, controlling engine rpm with prop pitch. The exception is when flying formation with a certain Renesis-powered RV-10. Then I have to throttle way back. I have lower gph, but use more fuel because it takes twice as long to get to the destination. I did one speed run recently and saw 221mph at 6k rpm, 18.5 gph. Not something I'm willing to do for any length of time, but sure was fun while it lasted. Mark Sent from my iPad On Aug 6, 2014, at 5:08 PM, "Bill Bradburry" wrote: Mark, I suppose that your prop speed limits your engine rpm to about 6100 max? At 8000-10000 ft, can you go WOT without over speeding your prop? If you can and have, what TAS and fuel burn do you get? When I moved my plane from Florida to Texas, I could only get to about 2000-3000 ft due to ceiling and headwinds. I have the Renesis with the 2.85 PSRU and the MT electric 3 blade c/s prop. I was getting 161-163 knots(185-188 mph) TAS with WOT, 6000 rpm, burning 9-10 gpm. I had the engine leaned to an A/F ratio of 16 using the wide band O2 sensor. I almost always fly WOT in order to reduce pumping losses in the engine and I use the prop to control the engine rpm and therefore power. The only time I use the throttle to control the engine power is as I approach the airport for landing. Any others with performance numbers on their flying airplane? Ed, we haven't heard from you in a while, how are you doing? Bill _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 3:58 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Trip report Tracy, Thanks for posting your numbers. I typically fly below 10,000, but at the same rpm, higher MAP. Typical cruise is 195-200 mph, burning around 11.2-11.5 gph. Maybe I should slow down, or fly higher. For those unfamiliar with my setup, it is a Lancair ES, 20B-PP, 2.17:1 psru, M/T electric 3-blade c/s prop. Mark S. On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Tracy wrote: Here's some trip data from a flight from Florida to Colorado in the 20B powered RV-8. It's the first long trip where I was able to fly at or near the altitudes it was optimized for. It didn't do as well as I had hoped in terms of fuel economy but the numbers were as good or slightly better than the typical Lycoming powered RV numbers I hear. It is only slightly faster than my Renesis powered RV-4 at cruise conditions and reasonable fuel flow. But what I like about it is the effortlessness with which it does the job. There is always a handful of throttle left for reserve in any normal flight situation. Full throttle is reserved for those few seconds between rudder effectiveness at 30mph and lift off speed at 60. As soon as the wheels break ground I typically reduce manifold pressure to 24". Cruise climb is done at between 18 and 19" depending on takeoff weight at around 700 FPM. Cruise altitude was limited to 15,000 this trip by temperature. I wasn't thinking and wore only a thin jacket and I don't have cabin heat. All three legs were flown at 14,500 in a very unusual high pressure system the whole way with almost zero wind. Here are the raw numbers: Altitude 14,500 OAT 35 - 43F TAS 174 - 182 MPH * Fuel Flow 8 GPH Engine RPM 5250 - 5450 Manifold Pressure 14.3" % Power 30% (As calculated by EM3) EGT 1450F Water temp 145 - 150 Oil Temp 160 (Cowl flap would help temps and airspeed) Total flight hours on trip 9.2 * Fuel flow was held constant, TAS varied with fuel batch. Low number was with Florida gas with about 8% ethanol. Refueled at Charlie England's place (Thanks for the hospitality and fuel service Charlie!). Not sure wether it had ethanol or not but TAS was a few MPH better. After refueling at 47K in Kansas with no ethanol mogas, the TAS reached the highest number. Tracy Sent from my iPad -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CFB1B0.FAA4D2A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Nasty! Nasty! Nasty!   = :>)

 

I haven’t heard from Bobby in = a while.  He was considering swapping that SC for a turbo.  Made = his mind up yet?

 

How does that speed compare with = your ES cousins?  That fuel flow indicates about 200 hp.  Have you = tried it at a higher rpm?  You could probably generate 300 hp or so with = that PP 20B at 7000 or so.  That would give you a 27-28 gpm fuel flow and = probably 220-225 speed?  That should run like an ES with an IO550 = engine.

 

I left Sanford, Fl a while back with my son = in his Turbo Saratoga following me in a flight of two.  He came over the = radio saying “Slow Down! I am burning 30 gpm back here and you are still pulling away from me!” .   :>)  Best thing I had = heard in a long time!   :>)

 

I set my prop for a 7000 rpm take = off, showing about 17-18 gpm, what do you use?  I wouldn’t take my fuel = flow to the bank as I am not certain of the calibration = yet.

 

Bill

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August = 06, 2014 6:19 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Trip report

 

Bill,

 

I stated my gear ratio is 2.17:1 in error.  I'm actually = running the RD-2C which is the 2.85:1 gear set.  Typically, I run wot too, controlling engine rpm with prop pitch.  The exception is when = flying formation with a certain Renesis-powered RV-10.  Then I have to = throttle way back.  I have lower gph, but use more fuel because it takes = twice as long to get to the destination.

 

I did one speed run recently and saw 221mph at 6k rpm, 18.5 gph.  Not something I'm willing to do for any length of time, but sure = was fun while it lasted.

 

Mark

Sent from my iPad


On Aug 6, 2014, at 5:08 PM, "Bill Bradburry" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Mark,

 

I suppose that your prop speed = limits your engine rpm to about 6100 max?   At 8000-10000 ft, can you go = WOT without over speeding your prop?  If you can and have, what TAS and = fuel burn do you get?

 

When I moved my plane from = Florida to Texas, I could only get to about 2000-3000 ft due to ceiling and = headwinds.  I have the Renesis with the 2.85 PSRU and the MT electric 3 blade c/s = prop.  I was getting 161-163 knots(185-188 mph) TAS with WOT, 6000 rpm, burning = 9-10 gpm.  I had the engine leaned to an A/F ratio of 16 using the wide = band O2 sensor.  I almost always fly WOT in order to reduce pumping losses = in the engine and I use the prop to control the engine rpm and therefore = power.  The only time I use the throttle to control the engine power is as I = approach the airport for landing.

 

Any others with performance numbers = on their flying airplane?

 

Ed, we haven’t heard from you = in a while, how are you doing?

 

Bill

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August = 06, 2014 3:58 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Trip report

 

Tracy,

Thanks for posting your numbers. I typically fly below 10,000, = but at the same rpm, higher MAP. Typical cruise is 195-200 mph, burning around 11.2-11.5 gph. Maybe I should slow down, or fly higher. =

For those unfamiliar with my setup, it is a Lancair ES, 20B-PP, = 2.17:1 psru, M/T electric 3-blade c/s prop. =

Mark S.

 

On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Tracy <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Here's some trip data from a flight from Florida to Colorado in the 20B powered RV-8. It's the first long trip where I was able to = fly at or near the altitudes it was optimized for. It didn't do as well as I had = hoped in terms of fuel economy but the numbers were as good or slightly better = than the typical Lycoming powered RV numbers I hear. It is only slightly faster = than my Renesis powered RV-4 at cruise conditions and reasonable fuel flow. But = what I like about it is the effortlessness with which it does the job. There is = always a handful of throttle left for reserve in any normal flight = situation.

Full throttle is reserved for those few seconds between rudder = effectiveness at 30mph and lift off speed at 60. As soon as the wheels break ground I = typically reduce manifold pressure to 24". Cruise climb is done at between 18 = and 19" depending on takeoff weight at around 700 FPM. Cruise altitude = was limited to 15,000 this trip by temperature. I wasn't thinking and wore = only a thin jacket and I don't have cabin heat. All three legs were flown at = 14,500 in a very unusual high pressure system the whole way with almost zero wind. = Here are the raw numbers:

Altitude 14,500
OAT 35 - 43F
TAS 174 - 182 MPH *
Fuel Flow 8 GPH
Engine RPM 5250 - 5450
Manifold Pressure 14.3"
% Power 30% (As calculated by EM3)
EGT 1450F
Water temp 145 - 150
Oil Temp 160 (Cowl flap would help temps and airspeed)
Total flight hours on trip 9.2

* Fuel flow was held constant, TAS varied with fuel batch. Low number = was with Florida gas with about 8% ethanol. Refueled at Charlie England's place (Thanks = for the hospitality and fuel service Charlie!). Not sure wether it had ethanol = or not but TAS was a few MPH better. After refueling at 47K in Kansas with no ethanol mogas, the TAS reached the highest number.

Tracy

Sent from my iPad
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Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.h= tml

 

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