X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com From: Received: from qmta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.16] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.9e) with ESMTP id 6983610 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 17 Jul 2014 16:14:24 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.30.16; envelope-from=hoursaway1@comcast.net Received: from omta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.59]) by qmta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id TY6V1o0011GXsucA1YDp1m; Thu, 17 Jul 2014 20:13:49 +0000 Received: from sz0081.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.40.137]) by omta07.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id TYDp1o0022xZMJ48UYDpmw; Thu, 17 Jul 2014 20:13:49 +0000 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 20:13:49 +0000 (UTC) To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-ID: <735655676.291774.1405628029092.JavaMail.root@sz0081a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] power circuit design, was: actual current use by a rotary? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_291773_2109067694.1405628029091" X-Originating-IP: [2602:306:c562:919:3cde:7da3:5f0c:20b0] X-Mailer: Zimbra 6.0.13_GA_2944 (ZimbraWebClient - [unknown] (Win)/6.0.13_GA_2944) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1405628029; bh=RplSgt0ZuWsgkNMj1Qz43l0yZ+hGH8KRjuvk3HID6Fc=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:To:Message-ID:Subject:MIME-Version: Content-Type; b=jwadsB2gfVDux8S2fBo0r3CMUCFtBDekE2LyvNrmrBOCsuLTYcsVIZro/KB3Bynpe eQwto8H/CuTd2GeaJ37/26OlS+Z16e48Fd5dnRhs8RzVtaRa3jnOhgeQZEUA5PnVBO xwIQUzqnrmsWPHPfSkjnCNvHRVzVYXq6eiYiydKw+uVfn13CJ159fMXZgCXLgqJk+n ly1r6ZzFT9KArEcQGY8atquv66qwu8Sk0oERvxador0H0oiocUCxkOfBmNnD8v/yko xoZY7smqbw1aJMtwprN7auiW4/mHJMX8v/iMK0phKohd5J1uk/UzGBgYSNMEXeHCYg 9YSIqwVWXlqjg== ------=_Part_291773_2109067694.1405628029091 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Charlie, I divided=C2=A0 the leading from trailing under the cowl near coil= s & installed two 20A spade fuses in covered fuse holders, if a trailing co= il shorted internally it would cause fuse for both trailing to stop working= & I fly on leading coils to landing.=C2=A0 David R. Cook=C2=A0 RV6A Rotary= Lansing Michigan.=20 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie England" =20 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =20 Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 2:14:43 PM=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] power circuit design, was: actual current use by a rot= ary?=20 Well, time for some followup.=20 My 1st draft for circuit protection looked a lot like what Steve describes = (thanks, Steve), with individual fuses for virtually everything, including = an individual fuse for each injector and each ignition coil. After ruminati= ng over the actual loads for the injectors & coils, I'm having second thoug= hts. The GM coil harness I have in hand has a single DC power wire for all = four coils that it feeds (obviously isn't a part intended for flight, but i= ncluded in Tracy's installation manual).=20 The obvious concern is whether an individual coil or injector failure has a= statistically significant risk of taking out the power supply that's fused= for the total load. If there's no statistically significant danger, weight= & complexity could be reduced by feeding the coils and injectors as groups= .=20 So, is there any consensus on how to handle injector & coil wiring? IIRC, t= here have been some coil failures in flight; were those planes wired with a= single fuse/breaker protecting all the coils, or with individual fuses/bre= akers for each coil? What about the injectors?=20 Any failure modes I'm missing? (other than a dead short on a supply wire, o= f course)=20 Thanks,=20 Charlie=20 On 7/1/2014 10:13 PM, Stephen Izett wrote:=20 Charlie=20 Don=E2=80=99t know if it is wise but I have wired our electron traffic mana= gement as follows:=20 1. A Main 32 way blade fuse block which is broken into two busses: A & B be= ing -=20 (The blade fuse block enables me to patch a current meter to any circuit to= see whats happening. Helpful when setting up or trouble shooting but just = nice and compact otherwise BUT I can=E2=80=99t just re-energise a circuit l= ike with circuit breakers, though blade size circuit brakes do exist nowada= ys. This main fuse block is mounted directly below main system switches so = is very accessible)=20 A. FLIGHT CRITICAL (16 fuses)=C2=A0fed by a keyswitch:=20 EC2(A), EC2(B), EM3, O2, Prop Pitch, Engine Fuel Pres Pump, Engine Backup F= uel Pres Pump, Fuel Transfer Pump, Backup Fuel Transfer Pump, Pri Fuel Inje= ctors, Sec Fuel Injectors, Leading Coils, Trailing Coils.=C2=A0=20 Notes 1. All engine fuel is fed from a header tank of 8 gallons with the tr= ansfer pumps feeding the header from the main wing tank=20 Note 2. Separate power and return feeds to Pri and Sec Inj & Leading and Tr= ailing Coils, fuel pumps.=20 B. AVIONONICS (16 fuses) feb by Avionoics master switch:=20 RHS Dynon EFIS, FHS Dynon EFIS, Flight Computer of my own, Com Radio, Trans= ponder, Autopilot servos, Position Lights, Strobe Lights etc,=20 C. LANDING GEAR PUMP switched through seperate breaker (this mongrel draws = ~30 amps)=20 Our airplane is plastic so return lines are very important. We have separat= e main return paths - quiet and noisy.=20 Steve=20 =C2=A0=20 On 2 Jul 2014, at 10:08 am, Charlie England < flyrotary@lancaironline.net >= wrote:=20
Wow, Steve, that's great detailed info; I was just hoping to get the total.= I was expecting the injectors to draw more than the coils, but with all th= e coils together under 5 amps (and even better for the injectors), then my = wiring architecture can get a lot simpler.=20 Many thanks,=20 Charlie=20 On 7/1/2014 7:19 PM, steve Izett wrote:=20
Hi Charlie=20 I think these are in the ball park but not measured under flying conditions= only idle.=20 ENGINE=20 EC2=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 .3=20 EM3=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 .5=20 COILS (D585)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 5=20 INJECTORS (Renesis)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A02=20 FUEL PRESSURE PUMP=C2=A0 x 1 =C2=A08.4=20 FUEL TRANSFER PUMP=C2=A0x 1 =C2=A01.6=20 O2 SENSOR=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 0.6=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20 Total Engine=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 18.4=20 Steve Izett=20 On 2 Jul 2014, at 5:08 am, Charlie England < flyrotary@lancaironline.net > = wrote:=20
Has anyone with an ammeter installed measured their engine's actual current= draw (controller, injectors, plugs, fuel pump) with everything but the eng= ine shut down, and the alternator offline? IIRC, Bernie Kerr once did a bat= tery duration test & discontinued after ~40 minutes, but I don't recall see= ing any actual current measurements.=20 Thanks,=20 Charlie=C2=A0=20
------=_Part_291773_2109067694.1405628029091 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= div style=3D'font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>Charlie, = I divided  the leading from trailing under the cowl near coils & i= nstalled two 20A spade fuses in covered fuse holders, if a trailing coil sh= orted internally it would cause fuse for both trailing to stop working &= ; I fly on leading coils to landing.  David R. Cook  RV6A Rotary = Lansing Michigan.

From: "Charlie England" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To= : "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 2:14:43 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary= ] power circuit design, was: actual current use by a rotary?

Well, time for some followup.

My 1st dr= aft for circuit protection looked a lot like what Steve describes (thanks, = Steve), with individual fuses for virtually everything, including an indivi= dual fuse for each injector and each ignition coil. After ruminating over t= he actual loads for the injectors & coils, I'm having second thoughts. = The GM coil harness I have in hand has a single DC power wire for all four = coils that it feeds (obviously isn't a part intended for flight, but includ= ed in Tracy's installation manual).

The obvious concern is whether a= n individual coil or injector failure has a statistically significant risk = of taking out the power supply that's fused for the total load. If there's = no statistically significant danger, weight & complexity could be reduc= ed by feeding the coils and injectors as groups.

So, is there any co= nsensus on how to handle injector & coil wiring? IIRC, there have been = some coil failures in flight; were those planes wired with a single fuse/br= eaker protecting all the coils, or with individual fuses/breakers for each = coil? What about the injectors?

Any failure modes I'm missing? (othe= r than a dead short on a supply wire, of course)

Thanks,

Char= lie




On 7/1/2014 10:13 PM, Stephen Izett wrote:
Charlie=20

Don=E2=80=99t know if it is wise but I have wired our electron traffic= management as follows:
1. A Main 32 way blade fuse block which is broken into two busses: A &= amp; B being -
(The blade fuse block enables me to patch a current meter to any circu= it to see whats happening. Helpful when setting up or trouble shooting but = just nice and compact otherwise BUT I can=E2=80=99t just re-energise a circ= uit like with circuit breakers, though blade size circuit brakes do exist n= owadays. This main fuse block is mounted directly below main system switche= s so is very accessible)

A. FLIGHT CRITICAL (16 fuses) fed by a keyswitch:
EC2(A), EC2(B), EM3, O2, Prop Pitch, Engine Fuel Pres Pump, Engine Bac= kup Fuel Pres Pump, Fuel Transfer Pump, Backup Fuel Transfer Pump, Pri Fuel= Injectors, Sec Fuel Injectors, Leading Coils, Trailing Coils. 
Notes 1. All engine fuel is fed from a header tank of 8 gallons with t= he transfer pumps feeding the header from the main wing tank
Note 2. Separate power and return feeds to Pri and Sec Inj & Leadi= ng and Trailing Coils, fuel pumps.

B. AVIONONICS (16 fuses) feb by Avionoics master switch:
RHS Dynon EFIS, FHS Dynon EFIS, Flight Computer of my own, Com Radio, = Transponder, Autopilot servos, Position Lights, Strobe Lights etc,

C. LANDING GEAR PUMP switched through seperate breaker (this mongrel d= raws ~30 amps)

Our airplane is plastic so return lines are very important. We have se= parate main return paths - quiet and noisy.

Steve

 
On 2 Jul 2014, at 10:08 am, Charlie England <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= ; wrote:

Wow, Steve, that's great detailed info; I was = just hoping to get the total. I was expecting the injectors to draw more th= an the coils, but with all the coils together under 5 amps (and even better= for the injectors), then my wiring architecture can get a lot simpler.
=
Many thanks,

Charlie

On 7/1/2014 7:19 PM, steve Izett wro= te:
Hi Charlie=20

I think these are in the ball park but not measured under flying condi= tions only idle.

ENGINE

EC2  = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;  .3

EM3  = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp; .5

COILS (D585)&n= bsp;                     =     5

INJECTORS (Ren= esis)             2

FUEL PRESSURE = PUMP  x 1  8.4

FUEL TRANSFER = PUMP x 1  1.6

O2 SENSOR = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;   0.6      

Total Engine&n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;  18.4

Steve Izett

On 2 Jul 2014, at 5:08 am, Charlie England <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= wrote:

Has anyone with an ammeter installed measured their engine's= actual current draw (controller, injectors, plugs, fuel pump) with everyth= ing but the engine shut down, and the alternator offline? IIRC, Bernie Kerr= once did a battery duration test & discontinued after ~40 minutes, but= I don't recall seeing any actual current measurements.=20

Thanks,

Charlie 



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