X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-bk0-f52.google.com ([209.85.214.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTPS id 6344803 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 17:32:22 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.52; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by mail-bk0-f52.google.com with SMTP id d7so3727918bkh.39 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 14:31:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=r7n7ODpa8vo5HENHsMEdg+yMPOm6z0BgsidWt0tTZl8=; b=RKLF4bTwPkHhrI+GJFYo3MVcnss5MToahm4XvCRrHHyikRLC04l/0mQ/um7sfPvIeZ tE6YrHKahXY/YGXfoTi0gKFseyg367lS9zewojHF8YE0GmkzSoThqr7kwD+xE3IKwYZo Owc3kwRsl4Ck6tPl9Rw25i5/ONj0gGgKfxcMCe/ps1mXUFqysWDyN5aavYY8+9oMNs2B o3UZ+irXOS6ZfxI5sZzqaG0p2nuJD4QQNq4S0vK/nVxuOrhKFil8CI56Dp921sex5Eim 2+BgP4rD1eKLj65Vz1MFIxPxpcyRRSTujqzujFslfxAwOh6KQMJnq3WKOjB5VRWG6M8L vpPg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.205.10.200 with SMTP id pb8mr2804321bkb.0.1371936708540; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 14:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.186.79 with HTTP; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 14:31:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 16:31:48 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Pressure AGAIN From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf301cc62a2afd3904dfc4e88e --20cf301cc62a2afd3904dfc4e88e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Chris, OK, so much for that as a possibility. Have you checked your pressure regulators? One may be stuck open. Just a thought. Another possibility is the oil pump pickup. The screen could be plugged, and/or there could be a poor seal where the pickup tube attaches to the pump. Have you checked your front cover to see that it is flat and not warped? Mark On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Chris Barber wrote: > I did not remove the shaft. I simply blocked the mount with a plate. > > Sent from my iPhone 5 > > On Jun 22, 2013, at 15:11, "Mark Steitle" wrote: > > Did you remove the OMP shaft? If you removed it, did you plug the oil > galley? > > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Chris Barber wrote: > >> Pre-mix. >> >> Sent from my iPhone 5 >> >> On Jun 22, 2013, at 5:36, "Mark Steitle" wrote: >> >> Chris, >> >> One question... are you running the oil injection pump or did you >> remove and go with pre-mix? >> >> Mark >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Chris Barber wrote: >> >>> Yeah, Mark, that's my thinking too. I think I posted to share more >>> than expecting a magic billet solution. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone 5 >>> >>> On Jun 21, 2013, at 18:45, "Mark Steitle" wrote: >>> >>> Chris, >>> >>> At this point I wouldn't take anything for granted. I would install >>> multiple oil pressure gauges throughout the system, one right at the front >>> cover and one at the oil filter adapter block. It seems to me that there's >>> got to be something you've overlooked. Suspect everything. >>> >>> I had an oil cooling problem that I couldn't seem to get a handle on >>> until one day I noticed the upper tank of my dual pass oil cooler was >>> shaped differently than the other end. It was bowed outward. In this >>> design (dual-pass), there is a dam between the inlet and outlet ports. It >>> is a tight fit, but it isn't welded to the tank. So, when the tank bowed, >>> it allowed most of the oil to bypass the core, essentially rendering the >>> oil cooler useless. I installed a new oil cooler and all is well. >>> >>> I tell this story to emphasize not to take anything for granted. >>> Suspect everything, verify everything. You will find the problem hiding >>> somewhere you never would have thought of in a million years. Think like >>> inspector Columbo, "... just one more question, ma'am." >>> >>> Mark S. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Chris Barber >> > wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Well, if any of y'all are curious about my progress, I am grounded in >>>> Phase One. >>>> >>>> I am having oil pressure problems again. The frustration is huge. To >>>> add to this, most of the archive searches I have made give results that >>>> prominently feature my inquiries. >>>> >>>> Following my engine out over the airport in April traced to gunk in the >>>> fuel rail, mods were made to the fuel system. During static tests the oil >>>> pressure would never come up to expectations. >>>> >>>> Hoping to lick the front o-ring problem that I have had SEVERAL times >>>> now, I pulled the front cover to take a look see. The o-ring was torn. >>>> >>>> I choose to be more assertive in trying to address this problem. I >>>> modified a brass fitting by grinding the OD to make it it cleanly fit >>>> inside the front iron (also, ground the inside diameter to keep flow as >>>> close as possible to stock) and tapped the front housing to accept the >>>> fitting to screw in. I then placed an o-ring around the fitting. I did not >>>> include the silicone ring this time as it kept preventing the smooth mating >>>> it the iron and cover. >>>> >>>> While apart, I verified the woodruff key was properly installed in the >>>> oil pump. The oil pump was replaced last time the cover was off. I also >>>> verified the oil pressure relief valve. It was still in place (not >>>> surprising since it has been safety wired in following it falling out once). >>>> >>>> I buttoned everything back up being meticulous that the o-ring mod >>>> seated properly. However, my oil pressure is still low. It's in the >>>> twenties (psi) while idling. This is not too bad as Racing Beat states this >>>> is acceptable at idle. But, when I rev it up to as much as 6000 (only long >>>> enough to verify trend) it only goes into the 30's. NOT acceptable. >>>> >>>> The engine has had carb jets replace the e-shaft ball. I believe this >>>> can lower the oil pressure a bit. Also, there is a front oil cooler >>>> installed. This necessitates about a 12 foot oil line run. It is plumbed in >>>> parallel. This could provide a bit lower pressure too I think. >>>> >>>> I using a mixture of Royal Purple 30, 40 and 50 oil. I added what was >>>> available at the time. >>>> >>>> I have yet to check the oil pressure regulator. I specifically remember >>>> installing it to torque with blue lock-tight last time I had access. >>>> >>>> I plan to isolate the engine from the coolers and filter and take >>>> readings using a mechanical gage. Currently I have two electronic gages, >>>> one for the RWS monitor and one for the SkyView monitor. They both read >>>> within a couple of psi from each other. >>>> >>>> If not for this Achilles Heal I would very likely out of Phase One and >>>> planning a trip to Osh. It has been a major distraction of energy and time. >>>> >>>> I know it could be bearings but the stationary gears and bearings were >>>> replaced at the last rebuild. Everything else seemed in spec. >>>> >>>> The front eccentric thermostat was replaced with the plug. >>>> >>>> The oil is flowing as the system heats up evenly. I need to see if the >>>> hoses are hard while running, as the no-pistons site says, hard like a >>>> brick. >>>> >>>> Insight as to what may be my problem and diagnostic course is always >>>> appreciated. >>>> >>>> I hope I have provided enough info and not omitted relevant information. >>>> >>>> I really can't express my annoyance/anger/disgust properly. >>>> >>>> Thanks again folks. >>>> >>>> Chris Barber. >>>> Houston >>>> Velocity 13b >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone 5 >>>> -- >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> Archive and UnSub: >>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>> >>> >>> >> > --20cf301cc62a2afd3904dfc4e88e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chris,=A0

OK, so much for that as a pos= sibility. =A0Have you checked your pressure regulators? =A0One may be stuck= open. =A0Just a thought. =A0

Another possibility = is the oil pump pickup. =A0The screen could be plugged, and/or there could = be a poor seal where the pickup tube attaches to the pump. =A0

Have you checked your front cover to see th= at it is flat and not warped? =A0

Mark=


On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Chris Barber <cbarber@texasattorn= ey.net> wrote:
I did not remove the shaft. I simply blocked the mount with a plate.= =A0

Sent from my iPhone 5

On Jun 22, 2013, at 15:11, "Mark Steitle" <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:

Did you remove the OMP shaft? =A0If you removed it, did yo= u plug the oil galley?


On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Chris Barber <= span dir=3D"ltr"> <cbarber@= texasattorney.net> wrote:
Pre-mix.=A0

Sent from my iPhone 5

On Jun 22, 2013, at 5:36, "Mark Steitle" <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:

Chris,=A0

One question... are you running the oil injection pump or did you remo= ve and go with pre-mix? =A0

Mark


On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Chris Barber <cbarber@= texasattorney.net> wrote:
Yeah, Mark, that's my thinking too. I think I posted to share more= than expecting a magic billet solution.=A0

Chris

Sent from my iPhone 5

On Jun 21, 2013, at 18:45, "Mark Steitle" <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:

Chris,=A0

At this point I wouldn't take anything for granted. =A0I would ins= tall multiple oil pressure gauges throughout the system, one right at the f= ront cover and one at the oil filter adapter block. =A0It seems to me that = there's got to be something you've overlooked. =A0Suspect everything. =A0

I had an oil cooling problem that I couldn't seem to get a handle = on until one day I noticed the upper tank of my dual pass oil cooler was sh= aped differently than the other end. =A0It was bowed outward. =A0In this de= sign (dual-pass), there is a dam between the inlet and outlet ports. =A0It is a tight fit, but it isn't welded = to the tank. =A0So, when the tank bowed, it allowed most of the oil to bypa= ss the core, essentially rendering the oil cooler useless. =A0I installed a= new oil cooler and all is well. =A0

I tell this story to emphasize not to take anything for granted. =A0Su= spect everything, verify everything. =A0You will find the problem hiding so= mewhere you never would have thought of in a million years. =A0Think like i= nspector Columbo, "... just one more question, ma'am."

Mark S.


On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Chris Barber <cbarber@= texasattorney.net> wrote:

Well, if any of y'all are curious about my progress, I am grounded in P= hase One.

I am having oil pressure problems again. The frustration is huge. To add to= this, most of the archive searches I have made give results that prominent= ly feature my inquiries. <sigh>

Following my engine out over the airport in April traced to gunk in the fue= l rail, mods were made to the fuel system. During static tests the oil pres= sure would never come up to expectations.

Hoping to lick the front o-ring problem that I have had SEVERAL times now, = I pulled the front cover to take a look see. The o-ring was torn.

I choose to be more assertive in trying to address this problem. I modified= a brass fitting by grinding the OD to make it it cleanly fit inside the fr= ont iron (also, ground the inside diameter to keep flow as close as possibl= e to stock) and tapped the front housing to accept the fitting to screw in. I then placed an o-ring around = the fitting. I did not include the silicone ring this time as it kept preve= nting the smooth mating it the iron and cover.

While apart, I verified the woodruff key was properly installed in the oil = pump. The oil pump was replaced last time the cover was off. I also verifie= d the oil pressure relief valve. It was still in place (not surprising sinc= e it has been safety wired in following it falling out once).

I buttoned everything back up being meticulous that the o-ring mod seated p= roperly. However, my oil pressure is still low. It's in the twenties (p= si) while idling. This is not too bad as Racing Beat states this is accepta= ble at idle. But, when I rev it up to as much as 6000 (only long enough to verify trend) it only goes into the 3= 0's. NOT acceptable.

The engine has had carb jets replace the e-shaft ball. I believe this can l= ower the oil pressure a bit. Also, there is a front oil cooler installed. T= his necessitates about a 12 foot oil line run. It is plumbed in parallel. T= his could provide a bit lower pressure too I think.

I =A0using a mixture of Royal Purple 30, 40 and 50 oil. I added what was av= ailable at the time.

I have yet to check the oil pressure regulator. I specifically remember ins= talling it to torque with blue lock-tight last time I had access.

I plan to isolate the engine from the coolers and filter and take readings = using a mechanical gage. Currently I have two electronic gages, one for the= RWS monitor and one for the SkyView monitor. They both read within a coupl= e of psi from each other.

If not for this Achilles Heal I would very likely out of Phase One and plan= ning a trip to Osh. It has been a major distraction of energy and time.

I know it could be bearings but the stationary gears and bearings were repl= aced at the last rebuild. Everything else seemed in spec.

The front eccentric thermostat was replaced with the plug.

The oil is flowing as the system heats up evenly. I need to see if the hose= s are hard while running, as the no-pistons site says, hard like a brick.
Insight as to what may be my problem and diagnostic course is always apprec= iated.

I hope I have provided enough info and not omitted relevant information.
I really can't express my annoyance/anger/disgust properly.

Thanks again folks.

Chris Barber.
Houston
Velocity 13b

Sent from my iPhone 5<= font color=3D"#888888">
--
Homepage: =A0http:/= /www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
<= /font>




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