X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-bk0-f52.google.com ([209.85.214.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTPS id 6344770 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 16:10:20 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.52; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by mail-bk0-f52.google.com with SMTP id d7so3755682bkh.11 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 13:09:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=ygj0T+V4W1JYubtx7My8AqOoJS+dvVYit9AdwuEiQPw=; b=RpiPnO70S2MsikQ8QAltZbXKzOIt0BNwQ0pJAuzCk4UR+U7Mwbx75dyIV7lsqBq/Zq PiAQ5NcBGI6tIlor4ZE7U566gZjFkOBAcJKImCHIec9UD/kWi9Vf9x4M9mhU+DMsgpPX FBRKceDdSOG7MOBLgYBrWW8ejnVG9YLqMsRRgUXi6y6mqikq5ht+BS/6o2f0N4avotRi P3ET7uTgKXs1q7w540rJ6vRlQ67DOkJkW60ikNuV5SuHEp0jAVhtJy5B2xBP59XMqngW DB7jFB8MUq+5mDZBK07eKer8HX76yk+4menMk32U5WWTUrOm8qd8vNlwtdx6SA0f2N9z i9Eg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.205.35.13 with SMTP id su13mr2659991bkb.71.1371931784509; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 13:09:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.186.79 with HTTP; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 13:09:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 15:09:44 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Pressure AGAIN From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec52d5557ac2ad204dfc3c20b --bcaec52d5557ac2ad204dfc3c20b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Did you remove the OMP shaft? If you removed it, did you plug the oil galley? On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Chris Barber wrote: > Pre-mix. > > Sent from my iPhone 5 > > On Jun 22, 2013, at 5:36, "Mark Steitle" wrote: > > Chris, > > One question... are you running the oil injection pump or did you remove > and go with pre-mix? > > Mark > > > On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Chris Barber wrote: > >> Yeah, Mark, that's my thinking too. I think I posted to share more than >> expecting a magic billet solution. >> >> Chris >> >> Sent from my iPhone 5 >> >> On Jun 21, 2013, at 18:45, "Mark Steitle" wrote: >> >> Chris, >> >> At this point I wouldn't take anything for granted. I would install >> multiple oil pressure gauges throughout the system, one right at the front >> cover and one at the oil filter adapter block. It seems to me that there's >> got to be something you've overlooked. Suspect everything. >> >> I had an oil cooling problem that I couldn't seem to get a handle on >> until one day I noticed the upper tank of my dual pass oil cooler was >> shaped differently than the other end. It was bowed outward. In this >> design (dual-pass), there is a dam between the inlet and outlet ports. It >> is a tight fit, but it isn't welded to the tank. So, when the tank bowed, >> it allowed most of the oil to bypass the core, essentially rendering the >> oil cooler useless. I installed a new oil cooler and all is well. >> >> I tell this story to emphasize not to take anything for granted. >> Suspect everything, verify everything. You will find the problem hiding >> somewhere you never would have thought of in a million years. Think like >> inspector Columbo, "... just one more question, ma'am." >> >> Mark S. >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Chris Barber wrote: >> >>> >>> Well, if any of y'all are curious about my progress, I am grounded in >>> Phase One. >>> >>> I am having oil pressure problems again. The frustration is huge. To add >>> to this, most of the archive searches I have made give results that >>> prominently feature my inquiries. >>> >>> Following my engine out over the airport in April traced to gunk in the >>> fuel rail, mods were made to the fuel system. During static tests the oil >>> pressure would never come up to expectations. >>> >>> Hoping to lick the front o-ring problem that I have had SEVERAL times >>> now, I pulled the front cover to take a look see. The o-ring was torn. >>> >>> I choose to be more assertive in trying to address this problem. I >>> modified a brass fitting by grinding the OD to make it it cleanly fit >>> inside the front iron (also, ground the inside diameter to keep flow as >>> close as possible to stock) and tapped the front housing to accept the >>> fitting to screw in. I then placed an o-ring around the fitting. I did not >>> include the silicone ring this time as it kept preventing the smooth mating >>> it the iron and cover. >>> >>> While apart, I verified the woodruff key was properly installed in the >>> oil pump. The oil pump was replaced last time the cover was off. I also >>> verified the oil pressure relief valve. It was still in place (not >>> surprising since it has been safety wired in following it falling out once). >>> >>> I buttoned everything back up being meticulous that the o-ring mod >>> seated properly. However, my oil pressure is still low. It's in the >>> twenties (psi) while idling. This is not too bad as Racing Beat states this >>> is acceptable at idle. But, when I rev it up to as much as 6000 (only long >>> enough to verify trend) it only goes into the 30's. NOT acceptable. >>> >>> The engine has had carb jets replace the e-shaft ball. I believe this >>> can lower the oil pressure a bit. Also, there is a front oil cooler >>> installed. This necessitates about a 12 foot oil line run. It is plumbed in >>> parallel. This could provide a bit lower pressure too I think. >>> >>> I using a mixture of Royal Purple 30, 40 and 50 oil. I added what was >>> available at the time. >>> >>> I have yet to check the oil pressure regulator. I specifically remember >>> installing it to torque with blue lock-tight last time I had access. >>> >>> I plan to isolate the engine from the coolers and filter and take >>> readings using a mechanical gage. Currently I have two electronic gages, >>> one for the RWS monitor and one for the SkyView monitor. They both read >>> within a couple of psi from each other. >>> >>> If not for this Achilles Heal I would very likely out of Phase One and >>> planning a trip to Osh. It has been a major distraction of energy and time. >>> >>> I know it could be bearings but the stationary gears and bearings were >>> replaced at the last rebuild. Everything else seemed in spec. >>> >>> The front eccentric thermostat was replaced with the plug. >>> >>> The oil is flowing as the system heats up evenly. I need to see if the >>> hoses are hard while running, as the no-pistons site says, hard like a >>> brick. >>> >>> Insight as to what may be my problem and diagnostic course is always >>> appreciated. >>> >>> I hope I have provided enough info and not omitted relevant information. >>> >>> I really can't express my annoyance/anger/disgust properly. >>> >>> Thanks again folks. >>> >>> Chris Barber. >>> Houston >>> Velocity 13b >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone 5 >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >> >> > --bcaec52d5557ac2ad204dfc3c20b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Did you remove the OMP shaft? =A0If you removed it, did yo= u plug the oil galley?


On Sat, Jun 22, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Chris Barber <cbarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:
Pre-mix.=A0

Sent from my iPhone 5

On Jun 22, 2013, at 5:36, "Mark Steitle" <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:

Chris,=A0

One question... are you running the oil injection pump or did you remo= ve and go with pre-mix? =A0

Mark


On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Chris Barber <cbarber@= texasattorney.net> wrote:
Yeah, Mark, that's my thinking too. I think I posted to share more= than expecting a magic billet solution.=A0

Chris

Sent from my iPhone 5

On Jun 21, 2013, at 18:45, "Mark Steitle" <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:

Chris,=A0

At this point I wouldn't take anything for granted. =A0I would ins= tall multiple oil pressure gauges throughout the system, one right at the f= ront cover and one at the oil filter adapter block. =A0It seems to me that = there's got to be something you've overlooked. =A0Suspect everything. =A0

I had an oil cooling problem that I couldn't seem to get a handle = on until one day I noticed the upper tank of my dual pass oil cooler was sh= aped differently than the other end. =A0It was bowed outward. =A0In this de= sign (dual-pass), there is a dam between the inlet and outlet ports. =A0It is a tight fit, but it isn't welded = to the tank. =A0So, when the tank bowed, it allowed most of the oil to bypa= ss the core, essentially rendering the oil cooler useless. =A0I installed a= new oil cooler and all is well. =A0

I tell this story to emphasize not to take anything for granted. =A0Su= spect everything, verify everything. =A0You will find the problem hiding so= mewhere you never would have thought of in a million years. =A0Think like i= nspector Columbo, "... just one more question, ma'am."

Mark S.


On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Chris Barber <cbarber@= texasattorney.net> wrote:

Well, if any of y'all are curious about my progress, I am grounded in P= hase One.

I am having oil pressure problems again. The frustration is huge. To add to= this, most of the archive searches I have made give results that prominent= ly feature my inquiries. <sigh>

Following my engine out over the airport in April traced to gunk in the fue= l rail, mods were made to the fuel system. During static tests the oil pres= sure would never come up to expectations.

Hoping to lick the front o-ring problem that I have had SEVERAL times now, = I pulled the front cover to take a look see. The o-ring was torn.

I choose to be more assertive in trying to address this problem. I modified= a brass fitting by grinding the OD to make it it cleanly fit inside the fr= ont iron (also, ground the inside diameter to keep flow as close as possibl= e to stock) and tapped the front housing to accept the fitting to screw in. I then placed an o-ring around = the fitting. I did not include the silicone ring this time as it kept preve= nting the smooth mating it the iron and cover.

While apart, I verified the woodruff key was properly installed in the oil = pump. The oil pump was replaced last time the cover was off. I also verifie= d the oil pressure relief valve. It was still in place (not surprising sinc= e it has been safety wired in following it falling out once).

I buttoned everything back up being meticulous that the o-ring mod seated p= roperly. However, my oil pressure is still low. It's in the twenties (p= si) while idling. This is not too bad as Racing Beat states this is accepta= ble at idle. But, when I rev it up to as much as 6000 (only long enough to verify trend) it only goes into the 3= 0's. NOT acceptable.

The engine has had carb jets replace the e-shaft ball. I believe this can l= ower the oil pressure a bit. Also, there is a front oil cooler installed. T= his necessitates about a 12 foot oil line run. It is plumbed in parallel. T= his could provide a bit lower pressure too I think.

I =A0using a mixture of Royal Purple 30, 40 and 50 oil. I added what was av= ailable at the time.

I have yet to check the oil pressure regulator. I specifically remember ins= talling it to torque with blue lock-tight last time I had access.

I plan to isolate the engine from the coolers and filter and take readings = using a mechanical gage. Currently I have two electronic gages, one for the= RWS monitor and one for the SkyView monitor. They both read within a coupl= e of psi from each other.

If not for this Achilles Heal I would very likely out of Phase One and plan= ning a trip to Osh. It has been a major distraction of energy and time.

I know it could be bearings but the stationary gears and bearings were repl= aced at the last rebuild. Everything else seemed in spec.

The front eccentric thermostat was replaced with the plug.

The oil is flowing as the system heats up evenly. I need to see if the hose= s are hard while running, as the no-pistons site says, hard like a brick.
Insight as to what may be my problem and diagnostic course is always apprec= iated.

I hope I have provided enough info and not omitted relevant information.
I really can't express my annoyance/anger/disgust properly.

Thanks again folks.

Chris Barber.
Houston
Velocity 13b

Sent from my iPhone 5<= font color=3D"#888888">
--
Homepage: =A0http:/= /www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html



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