X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from hub026-NJ-7.exch026.serverdata.net ([206.225.166.170] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0) with ESMTPS id 5958320 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 19 Dec 2012 09:46:51 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.225.166.170; envelope-from=jwhaley@datacast.com Received: from MBX026-E1-NJ-6.exch026.domain.local ([10.240.14.56]) by HUB026-NJ-7.exch026.domain.local ([10.240.14.233]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Wed, 19 Dec 2012 06:46:16 -0800 From: Jeff Whaley To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' Subject: Re: Duct fabrication Thread-Topic: Re: Duct fabrication Thread-Index: Ac3d95jfreg+lAHFQ/aYQUziULYVtw== Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 14:46:16 +0000 Message-ID: <234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A35C91046@mbx026-e1-nj-6.exch026.domain.local> Accept-Language: en-CA, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [209.87.232.162] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_005_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A35C91046mbx026e1nj6exch_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_005_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A35C91046mbx026e1nj6exch_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A35C91046mbx026e1nj6exch_" --_000_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A35C91046mbx026e1nj6exch_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Charlie: I liked your photo bucket ... Where are you planning to route your exit duct? - Out the bottom or side of= your cowlings? Jeff From: Charlie England Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Duct Fabrication Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 11:07:26 -0600 To: Rotary motors in aircraft [Message Header] [Undecoded Message] Disclaimer: I'm a long way from even running the engine. I tried to copy (at least in spirit) Tracy's install, as well. Renesis in R= V-7. For fit (& financial) reasons, I used a Civic racing rad that has a mo= re or less square face & is a downflow design instead of a crossflow 2 pass= like the Scirocco style that Tracy used. It's around 400 cu in volume. One= thing I intend to try is to use an exit duct. Because of this, my duct is = on the engine side of the rad (Tracy dumps his exit air toward the engine).= The layout in my cowl (I wanted as straight a shot as possible into the we= dge) & the desire for an exit duct forced that change for my installation. I tried to use the formulas & guidance from the K&W book as a starting poin= t, but discovered that some of the stuff about wedges doesn't seem to match= 'real world' application. Tracy saw my 1st draft & warned that it wasn't t= hin enough at the back of the wedge, & he was right. I used canned foam to = re-shape the wedge to thin it out at the back. Once I determine that the in= ternal shape actually works, I'll glass over the canned foam. I also used a= turning vane in the duct to get more even air distribution through the cor= e (thanks to Al Gietzen for that tip). The vane was needed because the inle= t height is well above the center-line of the rad. I did try to use the K&W= streamline diffuser concept to transition from the round inlet to the some= what larger area of the entrance to the 'wedge'. I used clear packing tape as a release on the flatter areas, and cheap elec= trical tape on the highly curved areas. Tape works fine as a release, but a= ny texture on the form will get reproduced in your part. I had to do a lot = of work to smooth the interior of the duct because of the ridges formed by = wrapping the tape around the form. It's a lot like painting; if you do a lo= t of prep work, there will be a lot less finish (repair) work on the duct. Shots showing the core I made, & the resulting duct with turning vane are o= n Photobucket at http://s1155.beta.photobucket.com/user/rv7charlie/library/radiator%20duct Video of the airflow is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DD0mUJdzzrG0 Charlie This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the a= ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauth= orized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message= in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal= records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. --_000_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A35C91046mbx026e1nj6exch_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Charlie:

I liked your photo bucket …

Where are you planning to route your exit duct? - Ou= t the bottom or side of your cowlings?

Jeff

 

From:

Charlie England <ceengland7@gmail.co= m>

Subject:

Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Duct Fabrication

Date:

Sat, 15 Dec 2012 11:07:26 -0600<= /p>

To:

Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary= @lancaironline.net>

3D"Message

=

Disclaimer: I'm a long way from even ru= nning the engine.

I tried to copy (at least in spirit) Tracy's install, as well. Renesis in R= V-7. For fit (& financial) reasons, I used a Civic racing rad that has = a more or less square face & is a downflow design instead of a crossflo= w 2 pass like the Scirocco style that Tracy used. It's around 400 cu in volume. One thing I intend to try is to use an= exit duct. Because of this, my duct is on the engine side of the rad (Trac= y dumps his exit air toward the engine). The layout in my cowl (I wanted as= straight a shot as possible into the wedge) & the desire for an exit duct forced that change for my ins= tallation.

I tried to use the formulas & guidance from the K&W book as a start= ing point, but discovered that some of the stuff about wedges doesn't seem = to match 'real world' application. Tracy saw my 1st draft & warned that= it wasn't thin enough at the back of the wedge, & he was right. I used canned foam to re-shape the wedge to thin it ou= t at the back. Once I determine that the internal shape actually works, I'l= l glass over the canned foam. I also used a turning vane in the duct to get= more even air distribution through the core (thanks to Al Gietzen for that tip). The vane was needed because = the inlet height is well above the center-line of the rad. I did try to use= the K&W streamline diffuser concept to transition from the round inlet= to the somewhat larger area of the entrance to the 'wedge'.

I used clear packing tape as a release on the flatter areas, and cheap elec= trical tape on the highly curved areas. Tape works fine as a release, but a= ny texture on the form will get reproduced in your part. I had to do a lot = of work to smooth the interior of the duct because of the ridges formed by wrapping the tape around the form= . It's a lot like painting; if you do a lot of prep work, there will be a l= ot less finish (repair) work on the duct.

Shots showing the core I made, & the resulting duct with turning vane a= re on Photobucket at  

http://s1155.b= eta.photobucket.com/user/rv7charlie/library/radiator%20duct


Video of the airflow is at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DD0mUJdzzrG= 0


Charlie

 

This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the a= ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauth= orized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message= in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the origin= al message. Thank you. --_000_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A35C91046mbx026e1nj6exch_-- --_005_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A35C91046mbx026e1nj6exch_ Content-Type: image/gif; name="image001.gif" Content-Description: image001.gif Content-Disposition: inline; filename="image001.gif"; size=849; creation-date="Wed, 19 Dec 2012 14:46:16 GMT"; modification-date="Wed, 19 Dec 2012 14:46:16 GMT" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODdhCgANAPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgMDAwMDcwKbK8AAAAAAAKgAAVQAAfwAA qgAA1AAqAAAqKgAqVQAqfwAqqgAq1ABVAABVKgBVVQBVfwBVqgBV1AB/AAB/KgB/VQB/fwB/qgB/ 1ACqAACqKgCqVQCqfwCqqgCq1ADUAADUKgDUVQDUfwDUqgDU1CoAACoAKioAVSoAfyoAqioA1Coq ACoqKioqVSoqfyoqqioq1CpVACpVKipVVSpVfypVqipV1Cp/ACp/Kip/VSp/fyp/qip/1CqqACqq KiqqVSqqfyqqqiqq1CrUACrUKirUVSrUfyrUqirU1FUAAFUAKlUAVVUAf1UAqlUA1FUqAFUqKlUq VVUqf1UqqlUq1FVVAFVVKlVVVVVVf1VVqlVV1FV/AFV/KlV/VVV/f1V/qlV/1FWqAFWqKlWqVVWq f1WqqlWq1FXUAFXUKlXUVVXUf1XUqlXU1H8AAH8AKn8AVX8Af38Aqn8A1H8qAH8qKn8qVX8qf38q qn8q1H9VAH9VKn9VVX9Vf39Vqn9V1H9/AH9/Kn9/VX9/f39/qn9/1H+qAH+qKn+qVX+qf3+qqn+q 1H/UAH/UKn/UVX/Uf3/Uqn/U1KoAAKoAKqoAVaoAf6oAqqoA1KoqAKoqKqoqVaoqf6oqqqoq1KpV AKpVKqpVVapVf6pVqqpV1Kp/AKp/Kqp/Vap/f6p/qqp/1KqqAKqqKqqqVaqqf6qqqqqq1KrUAKrU KqrUVarUf6rUqqrU1NQAANQAKtQAVdQAf9QAqtQA1NQqANQqKtQqVdQqf9QqqtQq1NRVANRVKtRV VdRVf9RVqtRV1NR/ANR/KtR/VdR/f9R/qtR/1NSqANSqKtSqVdSqf9SqqtSq1NTUANTUKtTUVdTU f9TUqtTU1AAAAAwMDBkZGSYmJjMzMz8/P0xMTFlZWWZmZnJycn9/f4yMjJmZmaWlpbKysr+/v8zM zNjY2OXl5fLy8v/78KCgpICAgP8AAAD/AP//AAAA//8A/wD//////ywAAAAACgANAAAINgDxCRw4 EAC+fwgTIjT4DwCAAwIXHlSYkKHDhxEZUpTYEONEjRstOoR4ECRFkSQ5bux4saXDgAA7 --_005_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A35C91046mbx026e1nj6exch_ Content-Type: image/gif; name="image002.gif" Content-Description: image002.gif Content-Disposition: inline; filename="image002.gif"; size=857; creation-date="Wed, 19 Dec 2012 14:46:16 GMT"; modification-date="Wed, 19 Dec 2012 14:46:16 GMT" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODdhCgANAPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgMDAwMDcwKbK8AAAAAAAKgAAVQAAfwAA qgAA1AAqAAAqKgAqVQAqfwAqqgAq1ABVAABVKgBVVQBVfwBVqgBV1AB/AAB/KgB/VQB/fwB/qgB/ 1ACqAACqKgCqVQCqfwCqqgCq1ADUAADUKgDUVQDUfwDUqgDU1CoAACoAKioAVSoAfyoAqioA1Coq ACoqKioqVSoqfyoqqioq1CpVACpVKipVVSpVfypVqipV1Cp/ACp/Kip/VSp/fyp/qip/1CqqACqq KiqqVSqqfyqqqiqq1CrUACrUKirUVSrUfyrUqirU1FUAAFUAKlUAVVUAf1UAqlUA1FUqAFUqKlUq VVUqf1UqqlUq1FVVAFVVKlVVVVVVf1VVqlVV1FV/AFV/KlV/VVV/f1V/qlV/1FWqAFWqKlWqVVWq f1WqqlWq1FXUAFXUKlXUVVXUf1XUqlXU1H8AAH8AKn8AVX8Af38Aqn8A1H8qAH8qKn8qVX8qf38q qn8q1H9VAH9VKn9VVX9Vf39Vqn9V1H9/AH9/Kn9/VX9/f39/qn9/1H+qAH+qKn+qVX+qf3+qqn+q 1H/UAH/UKn/UVX/Uf3/Uqn/U1KoAAKoAKqoAVaoAf6oAqqoA1KoqAKoqKqoqVaoqf6oqqqoq1KpV AKpVKqpVVapVf6pVqqpV1Kp/AKp/Kqp/Vap/f6p/qqp/1KqqAKqqKqqqVaqqf6qqqqqq1KrUAKrU KqrUVarUf6rUqqrU1NQAANQAKtQAVdQAf9QAqtQA1NQqANQqKtQqVdQqf9QqqtQq1NRVANRVKtRV VdRVf9RVqtRV1NR/ANR/KtR/VdR/f9R/qtR/1NSqANSqKtSqVdSqf9SqqtSq1NTUANTUKtTUVdTU f9TUqtTU1AAAAAwMDBkZGSYmJjMzMz8/P0xMTFlZWWZmZnJycn9/f4yMjJmZmaWlpbKysr+/v8zM zNjY2OXl5fLy8v/78KCgpICAgP8AAAD/AP//AAAA//8A/wD//////ywAAAAACgANAAAIPgDxCRw4 EAC+fwcQKjxgMCHDhAD+GUQYEcDDhhIzVjwIkSJDfA8zQjxYUWRDixVHmnSI0aHCiS5ZAphJs2ZA ADs= --_005_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A35C91046mbx026e1nj6exch_--