X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-qa0-f52.google.com ([209.85.216.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c3) with ESMTPS id 5929777 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 08 Dec 2012 16:01:04 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.216.52; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by mail-qa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id d13so560709qak.4 for ; Sat, 08 Dec 2012 13:00:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=SBEAz2+U5pt8T1IWt5K8+q5ShwOzKF/HnShwTa+7sVw=; b=J9Wndwf9gmPoMYbajavrBJFz1TStFGWm6cdL/uAvJ2wVzzPW56a5hMk/com5aIw35D OW2ugFlaloEySUNz4b1rE5wWX0t+rGhFMCqTdEb2tlTyBC8UDHIbWODlPZFCZ+OAJRaz OtKJr2ImZFrjgTcfDz5AXlUMTCiP6VlTHAjdGLNoA182W9MSAHWZpqwqFrJ8WPik5wwV egwKLVHHDW9bo6tZOHSlPmH0nJMKtzMozuWjmz6p0UWDdVoWoKwhodB0W/7sjd5O9aVx HS0yTPFGmxOb30f3WGjqGCHldcj4XybZBjz8sgCBxUwTHn5XDPci/u8DzXAptM98hO2q GFxg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.49.127.15 with SMTP id nc15mr20020918qeb.61.1355000428688; Sat, 08 Dec 2012 13:00:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.39.131 with HTTP; Sat, 8 Dec 2012 13:00:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2012 16:00:28 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b6dc3ac38f38804d05d9ff3 --047d7b6dc3ac38f38804d05d9ff3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It could be a ground problem but of course don't neglect the +12 distribution either. If you have electrical glitches big enough to shut down all the avionics you mentioned it could be affecting the EC2 as well causing the violent hiccup. And if it is affecting all these devices it is not a coincidence -- Something Is Wrong and must be fixed. I got the first clean compile on the new EC2 code but havent completed bench tests in the hardware yet. The sun gear slip I experienced many years ago was with the old welded gear setup (not pinned) and it did feel very much like an engine miss but not as violent as you describe. The clue that it was the gear was that it only happened at WOT and never at lower throttle settings. I know of no other way to verify it than pulling the drive off the adapter plate and putting eyeballs on it. I've done this many times over the years. Takes me less than an hour if I leave the prop mounted. Having two people helps when doing this. Tracy On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Bill Bradburry wr= ote: > ** ** ** > > I currently have a separate ground from each of the batteries to a > Nuckolls =93forest of tabs=94 ground point. Everything inside the cockpi= t > grounds here. Also the fuel pumps and injectors ground here. The coils > ground on the center iron. There are separate grounds from each battery = to > the PSRU plate on each side of the starter. I have considered bringing t= wo > separate grounds from the center iron to the batteries just in case there > is resistance getting from the center iron to the PSRU plate.**** > > I am also taking all my grounds apart to check for corrosion or anything > that seems that it might not be properly bonded.**** > > ** ** > > I am doing this for two reasons. One, I am still getting that occasional > =93hiccup=94 that is violent enough to shake the plane when it happens. = It is > bad enough that I am concerned that it might be bad for the pin in the > PSRU. I am also wondering if it could be the PSRU that has sheared the p= in > and is slipping? Someone on here had that happen and I would really > appreciate a description of what that sounded and felt like and also how = I > could make certain that is not the problem. No, I don=92t want to disman= tle > the PSRU to check it unless that seems to be the only way to check it.***= * > > ** ** > > Also, ****Tracy****, how are you progressing on getting the upgrade for > the EC-2 that might fix this hiccup if that is what it is? I think you h= ad > it done for the EC-3 and were working on the EC-2 implementation??**** > > ** ** > > The second reason for going thru the grounds is that I am having an > intermittent problem with my GTX327 transponder, MFD150 moving map, and > TruTrak autopilot shutting down. This seems to happen more often when I > key the mike on my GNS430W radio, but keying the mike is not required. I= t > sometimes happens just out of the blue. Also most of the time, only the > transponder shuts off. Only sometimes does the moving map and autopilot > join in the fun.**** > > ** ** > > Everybody tells me that it sounds like a ground issue, hence I am going > thru the ground system. **** > > ** ** > > I welcome all opinions and input!**** > > ** ** > > Bill B**** > > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* **Rotary motors in aircraft** [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net= ] > *On Behalf Of *****Tracy**** > *Sent:* Saturday, December 08, 2012 10:56 AM > *To:* **Rotary motors in aircraft** > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose**** > > ** ** > > Tying the engine parts together should not be necessary but you still nee= d > a separate ground from battery to airframe ground (if metal) and your > avionics ground point. Also separate feeds from +12 battery to > starter/alternator and avionics. You can Use the starter/alternator feed > for coils, injectors & fuel pumps to keep noise down on the avionics bus. > > ****Tracy**** **** > > On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:23 AM, **Bill Bradburry **< > bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:**** > > Several months ago, after a discussion with ****Tracy****, I ran > grounding straps from each battery to the PSRU plate on both sides of the > starter mount. I had previously had the grounding strap running between > the center iron and the =93forest of tabs=94 grounding block on the firew= all. > ****Tracy**** suggested I move it so the starter amps would not get into > the grounding block.**** > > Now I have the igniters grounded on the center iron and I am considering > running a ground strap from the center iron to the batteries or trying to > tie each section of the engine =93sandwich=94 together by running a wire > between them. This would to be certain that the ground is good on the > igniters.**** > > **** > > Any opinions on this??**** > > **** > > Bill B**** > > **** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* **Rotary motors in aircraft** [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net= ] > *On Behalf Of *Andrew Martin > *Sent:* Friday, December 07, 2012 8:29 PM > *To:* **Rotary motors in aircraft** > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip hose**** > > **** > > Bill > > As Mark says + make sure you have a ground cable/strap connected battery > direct to your starter. Do not expect starter to ground through your engi= ne > without problems. > I remember ****Tracy**** posting on this issue years ago just a bit hard > to find in the archives now. > > Andrew**** > > **** > > On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Mark Steitle wrote:*= * > ** > > Bill, **** > > **** > > You may want to check your engine ground. Starter current may be causing > this.**** > > **** > > Mark S. **** > > **** > > **** > > On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 5:12 PM, **Bill Bradburry **< > bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:**** > > I am working on cleaning up my ground system and I noticed that I have > several, 3 or 4, places on my SS braided fuel hose that appears to be bur= nt > like it had an electrical spark exit from it. I have not found anything = in > the vicinity of these places that look like where the spark? would have > jumped?? > > Has anyone seen something like this and what should I do about it? Do I > have a ground problem in the engine compartment or is this maybe static? > The hoses are covered by SS and are connected on one end to a filter that > has a ground strap on it and on the other end to the fuel rail which is > grounded to the engine. > > Bill B > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html**** > > **** > > **** > > ** ** > --047d7b6dc3ac38f38804d05d9ff3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It could be a ground problem but of course don't neglect the +12 distri= bution either. =A0 If you have electrical glitches big enough to shut down = all the avionics you mentioned it could be affecting the EC2 as well causin= g the violent hiccup.=A0 And if it is affecting all these devices it is not= a coincidence=A0 --=A0=A0 Something Is Wrong and must be fixed.

=A0=A0 I got the first clean compile on the new EC2 code but havent com= pleted bench tests in the hardware yet.

The sun gear slip I experien= ced many years ago was with the old welded gear setup (not pinned) and it d= id feel very much like an engine miss but not as violent as you describe.= =A0 The clue that it was the gear was that it only happened at WOT and neve= r at lower throttle settings.=A0 I know of no other way to verify it than p= ulling the drive off the adapter plate and putting eyeballs on it.=A0 I'= ;ve done this many times over the years.=A0 Takes me less than an hour if I= leave the prop mounted.=A0 Having two people helps when doing this.

Tracy


On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 3:40= PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:=

I currently have a separate g= round from each of the batteries to a Nuckolls =93forest of tabs=94 ground point.=A0 Everything inside the cockpit grounds here.=A0 Also the fuel pumps and injectors ground here.=A0 The coils ground on the center iron.=A0 There are separate grounds from each battery to the PSRU plate on each side of the starter.=A0 I have considered bringing two separate grounds from the center iron to the batteries just in case there is resistance getting from the cen= ter iron to the PSRU plate.

I am also taking all my groun= ds apart to check for corrosion or anything that seems that it might not be properly bonded.

=A0

I am doing this for two reaso= ns.=A0 One, I am still getting that occasional =93hiccup=94 that is violent enough to shake the plane when it happens.=A0 It is bad enough that I am concerned that it might be bad for the pin in the PSRU.=A0 I am also wondering if it could be the PSRU that has sheared the pin and is slipping?=A0 Someone on here had that happen and I would really appreciate a description of what th= at sounded and felt like and also how I could make certain that is not the problem.=A0 No, I don=92t want to dismantle the PSRU to check it unless that seems to be the only way to check it.

=A0

Also, Tracy<= /u>, how are you progressing on getting the upgrade for the EC-2 that might fix this hiccup if that is what it is?=A0 I= think you had it done for the EC-3 and were working on the EC-2 implementation??<= u>

=A0

The second reason for going t= hru the grounds is that I am having an intermittent problem with my GTX327 transpon= der, MFD150 moving map, and TruTrak autopilot shutting down.=A0 This seems to happen more often when I key the mike on my GNS430W radio, but keying the m= ike is not required.=A0 It sometimes happens just out of the blue.=A0 Also most of the time, only the transponder shuts off.=A0 Only sometimes does the moving map and autopilot join in the fun.

=A0

Everybody tells me that it so= unds like a ground issue, hence I am going thru the ground system.

=A0

I welcome all opinions and in= put!

=A0

Bill B

=A0

From: Rot= ary motors in aircraft [mailto:fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy
Sent: Saturday, December 08,= 2012 10:56 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aer= oquip hose

=A0

Tying the engine part= s together should not be necessary but you still need a separate ground from battery to airframe ground (if metal) and your avionics ground point.=A0=A0 Also separate feeds from +12 battery to starter/alternator and avionics.=A0 You can Use the starter/alternator feed for coils, injectors & fuel pumps to keep noise down on the avionics bus.

Tracy

On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Several months ago, after a d= iscussion with Tracy, I ran grounding straps fr= om each battery to the PSRU plate on both sides of the starter mount.=A0 I had previously had the grounding strap running between the center iron and the =93forest of tabs=94 grounding block on the firewall.=A0 Trac= y suggested I move it so the starter amps would not get into the grounding block.

Now I have the igniters groun= ded on the center iron and I am considering running a ground strap from the center iron to the batteries or trying to tie each section of the engine =93sandwich=94 together by running a wire between them.=A0 This would to be certain that the ground is good on the igniters.

=A0

Any opinions on this??=

=A0

Bill B

=A0

From: Rot= ary motors in aircraft [mailto:fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Andrew Martin Sent: Friday, December 07, 2= 012 8:29 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Aer= oquip hose

=A0

Bill

As Mark says + make sure you have a ground cable/strap connected battery di= rect to your starter. Do not expect starter to ground through your engine withou= t problems.
I remember Tracy posting on this issue years ago just a bit hard to find in the archives now= .

Andrew

=A0

On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 7:26 AM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:

Bill,=A0

=A0

You may want to check your engine ground. =A0Starter current may be causing this.=

=A0

Mark S.=A0

=A0

=A0=A0<= /span>

On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

I am working on cleaning up my ground system and I noticed that I have
several, 3 or 4, places on my SS braided fuel hose that appears to be burnt=
like it had an electrical spark exit from it. =A0I have not found anything in
the vicinity of these places that look like where the spark? would have
jumped??

Has anyone seen something like this and what should I do about it? =A0Do I<= br> have a ground problem in the engine compartment or is this maybe static? The hoses are covered by SS and are connected on one end to a filter that has a ground strap on it and on the other end to the fuel rail which is
grounded to the engine.

Bill B


--
Homepage: =A0http:/= /www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists= /flyrotary/List.html

=A0

=A0

=A0


--047d7b6dc3ac38f38804d05d9ff3--