X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from hub026-nj-1.exch026.serverdata.net ([206.225.166.164] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c2) with ESMTPS id 5870615 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 09 Nov 2012 10:59:44 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.225.166.164; envelope-from=jwhaley@datacast.com Received: from MBX026-E1-NJ-6.exch026.domain.local ([10.240.14.56]) by HUB026-NJ-1.exch026.domain.local ([10.240.14.30]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.001; Fri, 9 Nov 2012 07:59:09 -0800 From: Jeff Whaley To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' Subject: Re: Renesis CAS & EC-2 upgrade? ... Which CAS wire needs the 1K resistor? Thread-Topic: Renesis CAS & EC-2 upgrade? ... Which CAS wire needs the 1K resistor? Thread-Index: Ac2+h9kZONW4inSXRg6Guw3FXPGqIwACIZEA Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 15:59:08 +0000 Message-ID: <234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A35C785CE@mbx026-e1-nj-6.exch026.domain.local> Accept-Language: en-CA, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [209.87.232.162] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_005_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A35C785CEmbx026e1nj6exch_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_005_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A35C785CEmbx026e1nj6exch_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A35C785CEmbx026e1nj6exch_" --_000_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A35C785CEmbx026e1nj6exch_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Steve, that does clarify the situation ... so, you are terminating e= ach output with 1k to CAS common. I do have the older gear-driven CAS with mating EC2 and never had an engine= misfire event at WOT or cruise. Did experience some rough running at idle = and some cold-start issues - always have to preheat my engine in the winter= to get it started. I was wondering if this new revelation would help with= either but alas apparently not. Jeff (Still rebuilding: wings done, re-drive looks good, engine has bearing dama= ge plus rear end and center housing damage) From: "Steven W. Boese" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis CAS & EC-2 upgrade? ... Which CAS wire needs th= e 1K resistor? Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 15:04:19 +0000 To: Rotary motors in aircraft [Message Header] [Undecoded Message] Jeff, If you are using the gear driven distributor style CAS with a controller se= t up for that, you should not need to add the resistors. I am using two Re= nesis CAS with a 12 and a single trigger tooth wheel on the eccentric shaft= of a Renesis engine with an EC2 set up for the gear driven CAS. To use th= is combination, a 1K resistor has been added at the CAS end of the harness = between the two connections to each CAS. My reference to adding a resistor= from the CAS to ground may be incorrect. The resistors are added between = each CAS output and the CAS return. I have not verified whether CAS return= is in fact ground. In effect, a resistor is connected from pin 4 to pin 2= 2 and another resistor is connected from pin 23 to pin 22. The green wire = of my gear driven CAS is not ground . Steve From: Jeff Whaley Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 9:38 AM To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft' Subject: Re: Renesis CAS & EC-2 upgrade? ... Which CAS wire needs the 1K re= sistor? Steve: Looking at my CAS-to-EC2 wiring diagram, there are Red, White and Green wir= es connecting to the EC2 at pins 4, 23 and 22 respectively. Assuming the Green is Ground, are you connecting a 1k resistor across the R= ed and White wires? - Or are you "Terminating" both the Red and White with = 1k to Ground? Are you doing this inside the CAS, inside the EC2, or adding it to the wire= harness? Please clarify ... thanks Jeff From: "Steven W. Boese" > Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis CAS & EC-2 upgrade? Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 15:52:23 +0000 To: Rotary motors in aircraft > [Message Header] [Undecoded Message] Ed, I tested the engine on the stand with variable resistors across each CAS ye= sterday. With the engine idling at about 1500 RPM, less than 100 ohms resis= tance across either CAS would cause the engine to quit completely. Resistan= ces this low must decrease the voltage generated by the CAS to a value too = low for the controller to use. The engine would not start with 200 ohm acro= ss one CAS and 1K ohm across the other. It didn't matter which CAS had the = lower resistance. The engine would start with 300 ohm across one CAS and 1K= ohm across the other. This makes sense since the CAS cannot generate a ver= y strong signal at cranking speed. What doesn't make sense to me: Starting with 1K resistance across each CAS, if the resistance on one CAS w= as increased to 69K, the engine would still run fine at 1500 RPM. If the re= sistance was increased to 69K on the other CAS, the engine would only run o= n one rotor. It didn't matter which CAS resistance was increased first. With 1K resistance across one CAS, changing the resistance of the other CAS= from 69K back to 1K by connecting a wire would sometimes cause the engine = would miss what seemed to be one firing event. Again, there was no differen= ce in the behavior of either CAS in this regard. The conclusion seems to be that adding the 1K resistor to each CAS seems to= be beneficial and the value of 1K is not critical or on the threshold of c= ausing other problems. Steve This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the a= ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauth= orized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message= in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal= records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. --_000_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A35C785CEmbx026e1nj6exch_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks Steve, that doe= s clarify the situation … so, you are terminating each output with 1k= to CAS common.

I do have the older ge= ar-driven CAS with mating EC2 and never had an engine misfire event at WOT = or cruise. Did experience some rough running at idle and some cold-start is= sues – always have to preheat my engine in the winter to get it started.  I was wondering if this new revelat= ion would help with either but alas apparently not.

Jeff

(Still rebuilding: win= gs done, re-drive looks good, engine has bearing damage plus rear end and c= enter housing damage)

 

 

 

From:

"Steven W. Boese" <SBoese@= uwyo.edu>

Subject:

RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis CAS & E= C-2 upgrade? ... Which CAS wire needs the 1K resistor?

Date:

Fri, 9 Nov 2012 15:04:19 +0000

To:

Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary= @lancaironline.net>

3D"Message

=

Jeff,

If you are using the gear dr= iven distributor style CAS with a controller set up for that, you should no= t need to add the resistors.  I am using two Renesis CAS with a 12 and a single trigger tooth wheel on the eccentric shaft of a Renesis = engine with an EC2 set up for the gear driven CAS.  To use this combin= ation, a 1K resistor has been added at the CAS end of the harness between t= he two connections to each CAS.  My reference to adding a resistor from the CAS to ground may be incorrect.  The re= sistors are added between each CAS output and the CAS return.&nbs= p; I have not verified whether CAS return is in fact ground.  In effec= t, a resistor is connected from pin 4 to pin 22 and another resistor is connected from pin 23 to pin 22.  The green wire of my ge= ar driven CAS is not ground .

Steve

 

 

From: Jeff W= haley
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 9:38 AM
To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft'
Subject: Re: Renesis CAS & EC-2 upgrade? ... Which CAS wire need= s the 1K resistor?

 

Steve:

Looking at my CAS-to-EC2 wiring diagram, there are R= ed, White and Green wires connecting to the EC2 at pins 4, 23 and 22 respec= tively.

Assuming the Green is Ground, are you connecting a 1= k resistor across the Red and White wires? – Or are you “Termin= ating” both the Red and White with 1k to Ground?

Are you doing this inside the CAS, inside the EC2, o= r adding it to the wire harness?

Please clarify … thanks

Jeff

 

From:

"Steven W. Boese" <SBoese@uwyo.edu>

Subject:

RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis CAS & E= C-2 upgrade?

Date:

Thu, 8 Nov 2012 15:52:23 +0000

To:

Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=

3D"Message

=

Ed,

I tested the engine on the = stand with variable resistors across each CAS yesterday. With the engine id= ling at about 1500 RPM, less than 100 ohms resistance across either CAS would cause the engine to quit completely. Resistances this low= must decrease the voltage generated by the CAS to a value too low for the = controller to use. The engine would not start with 200 ohm across one CAS a= nd 1K ohm across the other. It didn't matter which CAS had the lower resistance. The engine would start with 300= ohm across one CAS and 1K ohm across the other. This makes sense since the= CAS cannot generate a very strong signal at cranking speed.

What doesn't make sense to = me:

Starting with 1K resistance= across each CAS, if the resistance on one CAS was increased to 69K, the en= gine would still run fine at 1500 RPM. If the resistance was increased to 69K on the other CAS, the engine would only run on one rotor.= It didn't matter which CAS resistance was increased first.

With 1K resistance across o= ne CAS, changing the resistance of the other CAS from 69K back to 1K by con= necting a wire would sometimes cause the engine would miss what seemed to be one firing event. Again, there was no difference in the = behavior of either CAS in this regard.

The conclusion seems to be = that adding the 1K resistor to each CAS seems to be beneficial and the valu= e of 1K is not critical or on the threshold of causing other problems.

Steve

 

This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the a= ddressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any unauth= orized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message= in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our internal records. Please then delete the origin= al message. Thank you. --_000_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A35C785CEmbx026e1nj6exch_-- --_005_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A35C785CEmbx026e1nj6exch_ Content-Type: image/gif; name="image001.gif" Content-Description: image001.gif Content-Disposition: inline; filename="image001.gif"; size=849; creation-date="Fri, 09 Nov 2012 15:59:08 GMT"; modification-date="Fri, 09 Nov 2012 15:59:08 GMT" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODdhCgANAPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgMDAwMDcwKbK8AAAAAAAKgAAVQAAfwAA qgAA1AAqAAAqKgAqVQAqfwAqqgAq1ABVAABVKgBVVQBVfwBVqgBV1AB/AAB/KgB/VQB/fwB/qgB/ 1ACqAACqKgCqVQCqfwCqqgCq1ADUAADUKgDUVQDUfwDUqgDU1CoAACoAKioAVSoAfyoAqioA1Coq ACoqKioqVSoqfyoqqioq1CpVACpVKipVVSpVfypVqipV1Cp/ACp/Kip/VSp/fyp/qip/1CqqACqq KiqqVSqqfyqqqiqq1CrUACrUKirUVSrUfyrUqirU1FUAAFUAKlUAVVUAf1UAqlUA1FUqAFUqKlUq VVUqf1UqqlUq1FVVAFVVKlVVVVVVf1VVqlVV1FV/AFV/KlV/VVV/f1V/qlV/1FWqAFWqKlWqVVWq f1WqqlWq1FXUAFXUKlXUVVXUf1XUqlXU1H8AAH8AKn8AVX8Af38Aqn8A1H8qAH8qKn8qVX8qf38q qn8q1H9VAH9VKn9VVX9Vf39Vqn9V1H9/AH9/Kn9/VX9/f39/qn9/1H+qAH+qKn+qVX+qf3+qqn+q 1H/UAH/UKn/UVX/Uf3/Uqn/U1KoAAKoAKqoAVaoAf6oAqqoA1KoqAKoqKqoqVaoqf6oqqqoq1KpV AKpVKqpVVapVf6pVqqpV1Kp/AKp/Kqp/Vap/f6p/qqp/1KqqAKqqKqqqVaqqf6qqqqqq1KrUAKrU KqrUVarUf6rUqqrU1NQAANQAKtQAVdQAf9QAqtQA1NQqANQqKtQqVdQqf9QqqtQq1NRVANRVKtRV VdRVf9RVqtRV1NR/ANR/KtR/VdR/f9R/qtR/1NSqANSqKtSqVdSqf9SqqtSq1NTUANTUKtTUVdTU f9TUqtTU1AAAAAwMDBkZGSYmJjMzMz8/P0xMTFlZWWZmZnJycn9/f4yMjJmZmaWlpbKysr+/v8zM zNjY2OXl5fLy8v/78KCgpICAgP8AAAD/AP//AAAA//8A/wD//////ywAAAAACgANAAAINgDxCRw4 EAC+fwgTIjT4DwCAAwIXHlSYkKHDhxEZUpTYEONEjRstOoR4ECRFkSQ5bux4saXDgAA7 --_005_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A35C785CEmbx026e1nj6exch_ Content-Type: image/gif; name="image002.gif" Content-Description: image002.gif Content-Disposition: inline; filename="image002.gif"; size=857; creation-date="Fri, 09 Nov 2012 15:59:08 GMT"; modification-date="Fri, 09 Nov 2012 15:59:08 GMT" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODdhCgANAPcAAAAAAIAAAACAAICAAAAAgIAAgACAgMDAwMDcwKbK8AAAAAAAKgAAVQAAfwAA qgAA1AAqAAAqKgAqVQAqfwAqqgAq1ABVAABVKgBVVQBVfwBVqgBV1AB/AAB/KgB/VQB/fwB/qgB/ 1ACqAACqKgCqVQCqfwCqqgCq1ADUAADUKgDUVQDUfwDUqgDU1CoAACoAKioAVSoAfyoAqioA1Coq ACoqKioqVSoqfyoqqioq1CpVACpVKipVVSpVfypVqipV1Cp/ACp/Kip/VSp/fyp/qip/1CqqACqq KiqqVSqqfyqqqiqq1CrUACrUKirUVSrUfyrUqirU1FUAAFUAKlUAVVUAf1UAqlUA1FUqAFUqKlUq VVUqf1UqqlUq1FVVAFVVKlVVVVVVf1VVqlVV1FV/AFV/KlV/VVV/f1V/qlV/1FWqAFWqKlWqVVWq f1WqqlWq1FXUAFXUKlXUVVXUf1XUqlXU1H8AAH8AKn8AVX8Af38Aqn8A1H8qAH8qKn8qVX8qf38q qn8q1H9VAH9VKn9VVX9Vf39Vqn9V1H9/AH9/Kn9/VX9/f39/qn9/1H+qAH+qKn+qVX+qf3+qqn+q 1H/UAH/UKn/UVX/Uf3/Uqn/U1KoAAKoAKqoAVaoAf6oAqqoA1KoqAKoqKqoqVaoqf6oqqqoq1KpV AKpVKqpVVapVf6pVqqpV1Kp/AKp/Kqp/Vap/f6p/qqp/1KqqAKqqKqqqVaqqf6qqqqqq1KrUAKrU KqrUVarUf6rUqqrU1NQAANQAKtQAVdQAf9QAqtQA1NQqANQqKtQqVdQqf9QqqtQq1NRVANRVKtRV VdRVf9RVqtRV1NR/ANR/KtR/VdR/f9R/qtR/1NSqANSqKtSqVdSqf9SqqtSq1NTUANTUKtTUVdTU f9TUqtTU1AAAAAwMDBkZGSYmJjMzMz8/P0xMTFlZWWZmZnJycn9/f4yMjJmZmaWlpbKysr+/v8zM zNjY2OXl5fLy8v/78KCgpICAgP8AAAD/AP//AAAA//8A/wD//////ywAAAAACgANAAAIPgDxCRw4 EAC+fwcQKjxgMCHDhAD+GUQYEcDDhhIzVjwIkSJDfA8zQjxYUWRDixVHmnSI0aHCiS5ZAphJs2ZA ADs= --_005_234B758DE9A64449BEB6BB5D1345CA7A35C785CEmbx026e1nj6exch_--