X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c1) with ESMTP id 5728373 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 25 Aug 2012 07:37:57 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=IuCcgcDg c=1 sm=0 a=g3L/TDsr+eNLfIieSKfGkw==:17 a=AHkS0RJitIMA:10 a=bPxlXD0IKGYA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=PBQOXhhq05IA:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=r1ClD_H3AAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 a=qr1aI1iyN9ztwrIDS3YA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=DIsMDYM44rFgDGwZ:21 a=gWI0B2XRcpiFryq5:21 a=HHGDD-5mAAAA:8 a=E93lBu2AAAAA:8 a=Ivl7yaEHoJ_Wsjgeg4wA:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=i1zE5R4R5dEA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=hO30gm18fF0A:10 a=MpuOTR30KwMA:10 a=8y3r-Fxw0wcA:10 a=ZUHL7eEe4EUA:10 a=8lfLvbM9VgMA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=g3L/TDsr+eNLfIieSKfGkw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.170.10 Received: from [174.110.170.10] ([174.110.170.10:60176] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 96/44-17657-1F8B8305; Sat, 25 Aug 2012 11:37:22 +0000 Message-ID: <2FA85D5F75964F18826DA56A0E8E80DE@EdPC> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: OOPS!! Wrong Spreadsheet: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary Spreadsheet Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2012 07:37:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01CD8294.7737D1D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CD8294.7737D1D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Welcome, Steve, thanks for pointing out my screw-up. Ed Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com From: Stephen Izett=20 Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 8:39 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: OOPS!! Wrong Spreadsheet: [FlyRotary] Re: = Rotary Spreadsheet Thanks Ed=20 Those HP numbers now look more realistic. Cheers Steve On 24/08/2012, at 8:20 PM, Ed Anderson wrote: Thanks to Steve Izett for spotting the fact I sent out my (optimistic) = spreadsheet that I made for the one-time future 16X rotary engine of = 1600 cc displacement rather than one for the 1300cc engine. =20 That means all the power/heat/fuel burns were approx 20% greater that = what you should be seeing on a 1300 cc rotary engine. In any case, ditch that spreadsheet that shows 1600CC and use this = one. =20 Sorry, 'bout that folks. Ed Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com From: Stephen Izett=20 Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 7:07 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary Spreadsheet Hi Ed=20 Thanks for the calculator. It appears to be set up for the 16B Where can you adjust the constants for 1.3L instead of the 1.6L? Cheers Steve Izett On 23/08/2012, at 10:08 PM, Ed Anderson wrote: Ok, folks Here is a spreadsheet I spent quite a bit of time building and = improving. The power section I feel very confident in, the cooling = section less so - just too many variables that vary considerably from = one installation to another. The engine on the other hand is the engine = and less variation between installations. I do believe this can give you a useful tool for "what ifs" in = planning your installation and even better for inputting actual engine = data and getting estimates of what your power, fuel burn and heat = rejection requirements are. =20 This is offered as an Educational tool, no warranty exists or is = implied {:>). The user accepts full responsibility for its use and = consequences. The spreadsheet is divided into two basic components. The Power = section and the Cooling section. Power Section: Attached is a spreadsheet that can provide an approximation of your = engine's performance. In addition, it provides the HEAT in BTU that the = coolant and oil system must get rid of. You can change rpm, A/R ratio, = manifold pressure, OAT, number of rotors and gearbox ratio - any white = cell on the spreadsheet surrounded by bold blue boarders can be changed. = =20 At one time the spreadsheet tried to take input data on your = induction system (such as throttle body size, length of duct work, size = of runners, etc) - however, that just turned out to be pretty useless = as every induction system varied so much and some of the calculations = got pretty esoteric {:>)=20 I finally realized that manifold pressure accurately represented the = effectiveness of any induction system (regardless of how unique{:>)) = and most folks had a manifold pressure gauge, so that change to the = spreadsheet make it considerably more accurate and useful. You can even = input Turbo manifold pressure, but be sure to change the "TURBO" block = from NO to YES. Cavet: Remember this is NOT a simulator - in other words, the values are = not conditional on engine load, another variable which is just too hard = to try and quantify for each installation. So these calculations are = based primarily on fuel flow and engine rpm and assumption that the = engine can operate at the rpm you are interested in. In other words, = you can get this spreadsheet to show your are producing 450 HP at 9000 = rpm, but it ain't gonna happen in the real world with any meaningful = prop load on you engine. You can easily hit 9000 plus rpm without any = engine load and a few folks have done it - and have scattered parts of = gear drive and engine into garage walls, etc. =20 Now if you are using the spreadsheet and inputting actual = performance data from your engine installation then the results are = believe to be within 5% for the power section. =20 Concept: Basically you select the number of rotors which will limit the = maximum airflow through the N/A engine. The volume of the rotors and = manifold pressure you input then determines the airflow through the = engine for each rpm. IF you then select the Air/Fuel Ratio, that = tells the spreadsheet what fuel flow must be provided to match the = airflow to give your selected A/R. This combination is then used to = calculate the heat content of the fuel burned (in BTU units), from that = total energy, allocations for mechanical power, coolant heat and oil = heat and exhaust are made. Various other parameters are derived from = these basic calculations and converted to common parameters such as Fuel = Flow in Gallons Per Hour, Heat rejection required in BTU, etc.=20 Other parameters such as prop torque and rpm are again derived from = these calculations and your input of gear ratio, etc. The spreadsheet is protected and no, I won't unprotect it. Years = previous, I did send out unprotected spreadsheets and well\-intended = folks changed some of the formulas and relationships which (in my = opinion invalidated the spreadsheet) and then distributed them with my = John Hancock still attached. You can extend the rpm range by changing its starting point or by = changing the interval from 100 to something different. Likewise, you = can play with intake temperature and Air/Fuel ratio to see how much = effect those parameters have Cooling Section: There is also a cooling segment that never got to the point I had = intended. Its based on radiator surface area and airflow required to = get rid of the heat your engine is generating. The oil cooler is based = on the stock Mazda - so compare your oil cooler surface are to the stock = Mazda and adjust by that ratio. In other words, if you have a stock = Mazda you should enter "1" if your oil cooler surface are is 1.5 times = that of the stock then enter 1.5 For the radiator use the frontal area = of your radiators, in my case I have two GM cores each with a 9x10" = frontal area (not counting side tanks), so I input the surface area of = one and input 2 radiators of that size. You could just as easily taken = the 90 sq inch and multiplied by 2 =3D 180 and then input that and "1" = radiator. The main thing is to input the correct frontal area. = Clearly this section is based on assumptions about ducting effectiveness = and other system unique variables which are certainly different in each = installation and therefore this section is not considered as valid as = the power section - but, it does give a ball-park indication. You need to input the airspeed and rpm that you want to check = cooling at. The spreadsheet will then check your power figures by = selecting the BTU figures at the rpm you entered in the cooling section = - so the power calculations portion of the spreadsheet must cover the = operating conditions (primarily rpm) of your engine. If you select an = rpm in the cooling section that was not generated in the Power section = you will get an "Invalid RPM" message. The key factors in the power section are rpm, Air/Fuel Ratio, = Manifold pressure and Temperature. You can change the number of rotors = 1,2 or 3 and gearbox ratio. No claim of accuracy is made - just a tool to assist you to get some = ball-park figures on your engine project. Enjoy Ed Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5220 - Release Date: = 08/23/12 <01 Rotary Power ver 3.1 Cooling Btu Calculations Aug 2012 = ManifoldPressure.xls>-- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5222 - Release Date: = 08/24/12 ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CD8294.7737D1D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Welcome, Steve, thanks for pointing out my=20 screw-up.
 
Ed
 
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic = Enterprises=20 LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com

Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 8:39 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: OOPS!! Wrong Spreadsheet: = [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Rotary Spreadsheet

Thanks Ed=20
Those HP numbers now look more realistic.

Cheers

Steve
On 24/08/2012, at 8:20 PM, Ed Anderson wrote:
Thanks to Steve Izett for spotting the fact I = sent out=20 my (optimistic) spreadsheet that I made for the one-time future 16X = rotary=20 engine of 1600 cc displacement rather than one for the 1300cc = engine. =20
 
That means all the power/heat/fuel burns were=20 approx  20% greater that what you should be seeing on a 1300 cc = rotary=20 engine.
 
In any case, ditch that spreadsheet that shows = 1600CC=20 and use this one. 
 
Sorry, 'bout that folks.
 
Ed
 
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic = Enterprises=20 LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com

From: Stephen Izett
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 7:07 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary = Spreadsheet

Hi Ed=20

Thanks for the calculator.
It appears to be set up for the 16B
Where can you adjust the constants for 1.3L instead of the = 1.6L?

Cheers

Steve Izett
On 23/08/2012, at 10:08 PM, Ed Anderson wrote:
Ok, folks
 
Here is a spreadsheet I spent quite a bit of = time=20 building and improving.  The power section I feel very = confident in,=20 the cooling section less so - just too many variables that vary = considerably=20 from one installation to another.  The engine on the other hand = is the=20 engine and less variation between installations.
 
I do believe this can give you a useful tool = for "what=20 ifs" in planning your installation and even better for inputting = actual=20 engine data and getting estimates of what your power, fuel burn and = heat=20 rejection requirements are. 
 
This is offered as an Educational tool, no = warranty=20 exists or is implied {:>).  The user accepts full = responsibility for=20 its use and consequences.
 
The spreadsheet is divided into two basic=20 components.  The Power section and the Cooling = section.
 
Power Section:
 
Attached is a spreadsheet that can provide = an=20 approximation of your engine's performance.  In addition, it = provides=20 the HEAT in BTU that the coolant and oil system must get rid = of.  You=20 can change rpm, A/R ratio, manifold pressure, OAT, number of rotors = and=20 gearbox ratio - any white cell on the spreadsheet surrounded by bold = blue=20 boarders can be changed. 
 
At one time the spreadsheet tried to take = input data=20 on your induction system (such as throttle body size, length of duct = work,=20 size of runners, etc)  - however, that just turned out to be = pretty=20 useless as every induction system varied so much and some of the=20 calculations got pretty esoteric {:>) 
 
I finally realized that manifold pressure = accurately=20 represented the effectiveness of any  induction system = (regardless=20 of how unique{:>)) and most folks had a manifold pressure = gauge, so=20 that change to the spreadsheet make it considerably more accurate = and=20 useful.  You can even input Turbo manifold pressure, but be = sure to=20 change the "TURBO" block from NO to YES.
 
Cavet:
 
Remember this is NOT a = simulator - in=20 other words, the values are not conditional on engine load, another = variable=20 which is just too hard to try and quantify for each = installation.  So=20 these calculations are based primarily on  fuel flow and = engine=20 rpm and assumption that the engine can operate at the rpm you are = interested=20 in.  In other words, you can get this spreadsheet to show your = are=20 producing 450 HP at 9000 rpm, but it ain't gonna happen in the real = world=20 with any meaningful prop load on you engine.  You can easily = hit 9000=20 plus  rpm without any engine load and a few folks have done it = - and=20 have scattered parts of gear drive and engine into garage walls,=20 etc.   
 
Now if you are using the = spreadsheet and=20 inputting actual performance data from your engine installation then = the=20 results are believe to be within 5% for the power = section. =20
 
Concept:
 
Basically you select the number of rotors = which=20 will limit the maximum airflow through the N/A = engine.   The=20 volume of the rotors and manifold pressure you input then = determines=20 the airflow through the engine for each rpm.   IF you then = select=20 the Air/Fuel Ratio,  that tells the spreadsheet what fuel = flow=20 must be provided to match the airflow to give your selected = A/R.  This=20 combination is then used to calculate the heat content of the fuel = burned=20 (in BTU units), from that total energy, allocations for mechanical = power,=20 coolant heat and oil heat and exhaust are made.  Various = other=20 parameters are derived from these basic calculations and converted = to common=20 parameters such as Fuel Flow in Gallons Per Hour, Heat rejection = required in=20 BTU, etc.
 
Other parameters such as prop torque and rpm = are again=20 derived from these calculations and your input of gear ratio,=20 etc.
 
The spreadsheet is protected and no, I won't = unprotect=20 it.  Years previous, I did send out unprotected spreadsheets = and=20 well\-intended folks changed some of the formulas and relationships = which=20 (in my opinion invalidated the spreadsheet) and then distributed = them with=20 my John Hancock still attached.
 
You can extend the rpm range by changing its = starting=20 point or by changing the interval from 100 to something = different. =20 Likewise, you can play with intake temperature and Air/Fuel ratio to = see how=20 much effect those parameters have
 
Cooling = Section:
 
There is also a cooling segment that never = got to the=20 point I had intended.  Its based on radiator surface area and = airflow=20 required to get rid of the heat your engine is generating. The = oil=20 cooler is based on the stock Mazda - so compare your oil cooler = surface=20 are to the stock Mazda and adjust by that ratio.  In other = words, if=20 you have a stock Mazda you should enter "1" if your oil cooler = surface are=20 is 1.5 times that of the stock then enter 1.5  For the = radiator=20 use the frontal area of your radiators, in my case I have two GM = cores each=20 with a 9x10" frontal area (not counting side tanks), so I input the = surface=20 area of one and input 2 radiators of that size.  You could just = as=20 easily taken the 90 sq inch and multiplied by 2 =3D 180 and then = input that=20 and "1" radiator.  The main thing is to input the correct = frontal=20 area.   Clearly this section is based on assumptions about = ducting=20 effectiveness and other system unique variables which are certainly=20 different in each installation and therefore this section is not = considered=20 as valid as the power section - but, it does give a ball-park=20 indication.
 
 You need to input the airspeed and rpm = that you=20 want to check cooling at.  The spreadsheet will then check your = power=20 figures by selecting the BTU figures at the rpm you entered in the = cooling=20 section - so the power calculations portion of the spreadsheet must = cover=20 the operating conditions (primarily rpm) of your engine.  If = you select=20 an rpm in the cooling section that was not generated in the Power = section=20 you will get an "Invalid RPM" message.
 
The key factors in the power section are = rpm, Air/Fuel=20 Ratio, Manifold pressure and Temperature.  You can change the = number of=20 rotors 1,2 or 3 and gearbox ratio.
 
No claim of accuracy is made - just a tool = to assist=20 you to get some ball-park figures on your engine = project.
 
Enjoy
 
Ed
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic = Enterprises=20 LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com
<Rotary=20 Power 16B ver 3.0  Cooling Btu Calculations Aug  2012=20 ManifoldPressure.xls>--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archi= ve=20 and UnSub:   http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

No virus found in = this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / = Virus=20 Database: 2437/5220 - Release Date: 08/23/12

<01 = Rotary=20 Power ver 3.1  Cooling Btu Calculations Aug  2012=20 ManifoldPressure.xls>--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archi= ve and=20 UnSub:   http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

No virus found in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / = Virus=20 Database: 2437/5222 - Release Date: 08/24/12

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