X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from qmta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.16] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c1) with ESMTP id 5726366 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 18:46:13 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.30.16; envelope-from=hoursaway1@comcast.net Received: from omta21.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.88]) by qmta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id qEbq1j02P1u4NiLA1Nlfju; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 22:45:39 +0000 Received: from sz0081.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.40.138]) by omta21.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id qNle1j00k2yr1eL8hNleAx; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 22:45:38 +0000 Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 22:45:38 +0000 (UTC) From: hoursaway1@comcast.net To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-ID: <729421487.897849.1345761938798.JavaMail.root@sz0081a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Check Temps on Climbout was e: [FlyRotary]Turboquestion. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_897848_1775834899.1345761938797" X-Originating-IP: [::ffff:71.206.108.115] X-Mailer: Zimbra 6.0.13_GA_2944 (ZimbraWebClient - IE8 (Win)/6.0.13_GA_2944) ------=_Part_897848_1775834899.1345761938797 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hay Chris,=C2=A0 I'm not turbo savy, but do you realy need an intercooler,,= ,,,,,at altitude,,,,,, the air is pretty cold already, the racers on the gr= ound need them because the air near the ground is hot, not at 6000+++ feet.= =C2=A0 just a thought & will be watching, a turbo instead of a muffler I'm = thinking may be a better choice.=C2=A0 David R. Cook=C2=A0 RV6A=C2=A0 Rotar= y Lansing MI.=20 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Barber" =20 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =20 Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 9:49:50 PM=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Check Temps on Climbout was e: [FlyRotary]Turboque= stion.=20 Yes. That is correct. The 3lb spring limits boost it is the lowest I have a= s I wanted to start low.=C2=A0=20 I checked my intercooler and it is flowing well. No obstruction or leak I c= ould find. It may be the location of the blow of valve. I will remove it an= d see if I get good boost=20 Sent from my iPhone 4=20 On Aug 22, 2012, at 6:30 PM, " CozyGirrrl@aol.com " < CozyGirrrl@aol.com > = wrote:=20 Andrew, I believe the 3 lb spring he is talking about is the wastegate spri= ng, this limits boost, the 3 lb one is the lowest boost available, as the s= prings get stronger the more exhaust is forced through the turbo.=20 Chris?=20 =C2=A0=20 Chrissi & Randi=20 www.CozyGirrrl.com=20 ClickBonds 10/$7.50=20 CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware=20 Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop=20 =C2=A0=20 In a message dated 8/22/2012 6:08:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, andrew@mar= tinag.com.au writes:=20
Chris=20 if your blow off valve is before the intercooler, it may just be opening to= o soon with that 3lb spring and allowing all your air to vent, then the eng= ine would act as NA but with the intercooler as a added restriction. try a = heavier spring.=20 Andrew=20 On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:53 AM, Chris Barber < cbarber@texasattorney.net >= wrote:=20
Thanks Ed. I am pleased you verified my concern after my cooling skyrocketi= ng yesterday when I went to full power.=20 Trying to determine where the restriction is now.=20 You are the best.=20 Sent from my iPhone 4=20 On Aug 22, 2012, at 4:48 PM, "Ed Anderson" < eanderson@carolina.rr.com > wr= ote:=20 > Chris, One thing to be checking on your next take off is your coolant/oil= temps. =C2=A0As you know take-off is the worst combination of low cooling = air mass flow and max engine temperature due to WOT.=20 >=20 > You would be surprised how quickly (with the additional power you now hav= e) you will exceed your cooling limits if not careful. =C2=A0So I would be = certain to check the temps at a frequent rate on your next take-off until y= ou know how the system is going to react - hate to see you cook your engine= during your first real Turbo climb out.=20 >=20 > I find for my Rv-6A that I needed to get to 120 mph IAS as quick as possi= ble to get on the good side of the cooling curve. =C2=A0So that generally m= eant take off - get safely above surround obstructions, then level off/redu= ce climb until airspeed hit 120. =C2=A0Then I could resume climb with cooli= ng gradually bring the temps down as altitude and airflow increased. =C2=A0= Your sweet spot airspeed would undoubtedly be different given different pla= tform and cooling set up.=20 >=20 > Ed=20 >=20 > --------------------------------------------------=20 > From: "Chris Barber" < cbarber@texasattorney.net >=20 > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 9:17 PM=20 > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" < flyrotary@lancaironline.net >=20 > Subject: [FlyRotary] Turbo question.=20 >=20 >> As I have mentioned I have had what I think are incongruent readings reg= arding my manifold pressure (mp)and engine rpm. It seems I am getting quite= low mp as I add power to higher rpm.=20 >>=20 >> I am not well versed in this area but my thought is that as I add power,= even with slight boost (currently using a 3 lb spring in my wastegate) eve= ntually my mp should raise a bit more.=20 >>=20 >> Today I did some static test. I recorded engine RPM with the =C2=A0turbo= hooked up and recorded the mp at 1000 rpm increments. Then I removed the t= urbo plumbing from my intake and recorded the same info My results currentl= y confuse me.=20 >>=20 >> With the turbo hooked up I am getting=20 >>=20 >> RPM. =C2=A0 MP inches=20 >> 2000 - 14.0=20 >> 3000 - 15.5=20 >> 4000 - 19.3=20 >> 5000 - 21.6=20 >> 5700 - 24.5 (topped out)=20 >>=20 >> With the turbo removed.=20 >>=20 >> 2000 - 15.8=20 >> 3000 - 15.3=20 >> 4000 - 19.7=20 >> 5000 - 24.8=20 >> 5833 - 29.8=20 >>=20 >> Is this indicative of restriction in my plumbing? Perhaps in the inter c= ooler? A dirty air filter? A bad pop off valve or a leak not allowing the a= ir pressure getting to the intake. Or????=20 >>=20 >> I am uncertain what other permitters I need to check and provide. I am j= ust starting my diagnosis in my Phase One testing. I only have 1.6 hours in= the air so far. I value ya'll's direction and input.=20 >>=20 >> Heck, perhaps this is working properly but it just doesn't seem right/co= mfortable.=20 >>=20 >> Thanks folks.=20 >>=20 >> Chris Barber=20 >> Houston=20 >> Velocity SE=20 >> Rotary 13b turbo (?) :-)=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Sent from my iPhone 4=20 >> --=20 >> Homepage: =C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 >> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List= .html=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -----=20 >> No virus found in this message.=20 >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 >> Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5211 - Release Date: 08/20/1= 2=20 >>=20 >=20 > --=20 > Homepage: =C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > Archive and UnSub: =C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotar= y/List.html=20 --=20 Homepage: =C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 Archive and UnSub: =C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/= List.html=20 --=20 Regards=20 Andrew Martin=20 Martin Ag=20 275 Newmarracarra Rd=20 Moonyoonooka WA 6532=20 0427477144=20 08 99241145=20 andrew@martinag.com.au=20
------=_Part_897848_1775834899.1345761938797 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= div style=3D'font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>Hay Chris= ,  I'm not turbo savy, but do you realy need an intercooler,,,,,,,at a= ltitude,,,,,, the air is pretty cold already, the racers on the ground need= them because the air near the ground is hot, not at 6000+++ feet.  ju= st a thought & will be watching, a turbo instead of a muffler I'm think= ing may be a better choice.  David R. Cook  RV6A  Rotary Lan= sing MI.


From: "Chris Barber" <cbarber@texasattorney.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent= : Wednesday, August 22, 2012 9:49:50 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: Check Temps on Climbout was e: [FlyRotary]Turboquestion.

Yes. That is correct. The 3lb spring limits boost it is the lowest I h= ave as I wanted to start low. 
I checked my intercooler and it is flowing well. No obstruction or lea= k I could find. It may be the location of the blow of valve. I will remove = it and see if I get good boost



Sent from my iPhone 4

On Aug 22, 2012, at 6:30 PM, "CozyGirrrl@aol.com" <CozyGirrrl@aol.com> wrote:

Andrew, I believe the 3 lb spring he is talking about is the wastegate= spring, this limits boost, the 3 lb one is the lowest boost available, as = the springs get stronger the more exhaust is forced through the turbo.
Chris?
 
Chrissi & Randi

www.CozyGirrrl.com<= BR>ClickBonds 10/$7.50
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
Chai= rwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop
 
In a message dated 8/22/2012 6:08:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, andrew@martinag.com.au= writes:
Chris

if your blow off valve is before the inte= rcooler, it may just be opening too soon with that 3lb spring and allowing = all your air to vent, then the engine would act as NA but with the intercoo= ler as a added restriction. try a heavier spring.

Andrew

On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:53 AM, Chris Barber <cbarber@texasattorney.net>= ; wrote:
Thanks Ed. I am pleased you verifi= ed my concern after my cooling skyrocketing yesterday when I went to full p= ower.

Trying to determine where the restriction is now.

You a= re the best.

Sent from my iPhone 4

On Aug 22, 2012, at 4:48 PM, "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:

> Chris, = One thing to be checking on your next take off is your coolant/oil temps. &= nbsp;As you know take-off is the worst combination of low cooling air mass = flow and max engine temperature due to WOT.
>
> You would be su= rprised how quickly (with the additional power you now have) you will excee= d your cooling limits if not careful.  So I would be certain to check = the temps at a frequent rate on your next take-off until you know how the s= ystem is going to react - hate to see you cook your engine during your firs= t real Turbo climb out.
>
> I find for my Rv-6A that I needed t= o get to 120 mph IAS as quick as possible to get on the good side of the co= oling curve.  So that generally meant take off - get safely above surr= ound obstructions, then level off/reduce climb until airspeed hit 120. &nbs= p;Then I could resume climb with cooling gradually bring the temps down as = altitude and airflow increased.  Your sweet spot airspeed would undoub= tedly be different given different platform and cooling set up.
>
= > Ed
>
> --------------------------------------------------<= BR>> From: "Chris Barber" <cbarber@texasat= torney.net>
> Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 9:17 PM
> To= : "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@= lancaironline.net>
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Turbo question.
&= gt;
>> As I have mentioned I have had what I think are incongruent= readings regarding my manifold pressure (mp)and engine rpm. It seems I am = getting quite low mp as I add power to higher rpm.
>>
>> = I am not well versed in this area but my thought is that as I add power, ev= en with slight boost (currently using a 3 lb spring in my wastegate) eventu= ally my mp should raise a bit more.
>>
>> Today I did som= e static test. I recorded engine RPM with the  turbo hooked up and rec= orded the mp at 1000 rpm increments. Then I removed the turbo plumbing from= my intake and recorded the same info My results currently confuse me.
&= gt;>
>> With the turbo hooked up I am getting
>>
&g= t;> RPM.   MP inches
>> 2000 - 14.0
>> 3000 - 15.= 5
>> 4000 - 19.3
>> 5000 - 21.6
>> 5700 - 24.5 (= topped out)
>>
>> With the turbo removed.
>>
= >> 2000 - 15.8
>> 3000 - 15.3
>> 4000 - 19.7
>= ;> 5000 - 24.8
>> 5833 - 29.8
>>
>> Is this i= ndicative of restriction in my plumbing? Perhaps in the inter cooler? A dir= ty air filter? A bad pop off valve or a leak not allowing the air pressure = getting to the intake. Or????
>>
>> I am uncertain what o= ther permitters I need to check and provide. I am just starting my diagnosi= s in my Phase One testing. I only have 1.6 hours in the air so far. I value= ya'll's direction and input.
>>
>> Heck, perhaps this is= working properly but it just doesn't seem right/comfortable.
>>>> Thanks folks.
>>
>> Chris Barber
>> H= ouston
>> Velocity SE
>> Rotary 13b turbo (?) :-)
>= >
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone 4
>> = --
>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/<= BR>>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/f= lyrotary/List.html
>>
>>
>> -----
>>= ; No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=
>> Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5211 - Release= Date: 08/20/12
>>
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

--=
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive a= nd UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html



--
R= egards

Andrew Martin
Martin Ag
275 Newmarracarra Rd
Moonyoo= nooka WA 6532

0427477144
08 99241145
andr= ew@martinag.com.au
------=_Part_897848_1775834899.1345761938797--