X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c1) with ESMTP id 5725184 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 07:53:58 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=QrvcLCOd c=1 sm=0 a=g3L/TDsr+eNLfIieSKfGkw==:17 a=AHkS0RJitIMA:10 a=pavx0Go1UGgA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ot0gUG65oqYA:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 a=y511zxBh_ScEf1Uu2J4A:9 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=1IlZJK9HAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=HHGDD-5mAAAA:8 a=ZCskcTyZIk__fkfbSpwA:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Z1BvOZmT1TIA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=i1zE5R4R5dEA:10 a=g3L/TDsr+eNLfIieSKfGkw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.170.10 Received: from [174.110.170.10] ([174.110.170.10:64172] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge04.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 38/A7-28917-3B916305; Thu, 23 Aug 2012 11:53:23 +0000 Message-ID: <446C7DD5FAE1463FBA9CC7BF2A7BBEF6@EdPC> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop revs Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 07:53:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0052_01CD8104.5F3B8180" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01CD8104.5F3B8180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, didn't have your manifold pressure at run up so I assume 29" Hg (1" = of loss). Based on that assumption, 6300 rpm and the fuel flow of 14.1 = gph, I came up with 153 HP. Now to get that with a 14.1 GPH fuel flow = it took an A/R of 17:1, (leaner than your stated A/R). Since you = mentioned that you have not yet calibrated the fuel flow, I suspect that = you might be flow more fue -l in which base the HP number would go up = and the A/R down. =20 Generally best power is found at an A/R of around 12.6:1 - if I plug = that value in at 6300 rpm this is what you should theoretically see: 6300 RPM A/R 12.6:1 (Best Power) and 29" Hg MAP =3D 206HP and 19.1 GPH = fuel flow. So you=92re A/R plays a key role in power being produced at = any rpm . So next time if you can, get your manifold pressure reading and I can = give you a better estimate although until you have the fuel flow = calibrated its likely to be inaccurate. Ed From: Neil Unger=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:20 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop revs ED and all. Ran up to 6300 revs (approx) and the fuel flow was showing 14.1 = GPH at 14 A/F ratio. Not sure that the fuel flow is correct as has not = been set yet. This is Tracy=92s standard setting so far. Engine is = lumpy under 1800 rpm and has its moments until over 3000 rpm when = everything acts normally. Suspect that part of the blame may be the = slide throttle. Have 6.5 hours on the ground so far and will check for = another few hours yet. Full noise gives an EGT of 1770, so will have to = up the alarm limit to 1800. Finally fixed all the oil and water leaks. = Any advice re what to check next before take off ? Neil. From: Stephen Izett=20 Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 9:21 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop revs Hi Ed=20 Thanks for the offer but I'm not flying yet. Hopefully early next year. Steve Izett Glasair SIIRG Renesis 4 port RD1C EC2 EM3 On 22/08/2012, at 8:51 PM, Ed Anderson wrote: Steve, if you give me the fuel flow you are seeing at 6300 rpm and = manifold pressure, I can give you a pretty good estimate from my = spreadsheet of what power you are producing. Also should you happen to = have the Air/Fuel ratio that would be a plus but not essential. Ed From: Stephen Izett=20 Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 7:23 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop revs Thanks Ed=20 I've wondered what my Renesis 4 port with a good intake manifold and = in flight adjustable prop will produce. So on a cold day she will hopefully still breath to 7250RPM and maybe = approach 200HP? Cheers Steve Izett On 21/08/2012, at 11:40 PM, Ed Anderson wrote: Steve, On a cold morning when I can see 19-20 gph on take off at 6200 rpm, = I calculate based on fuel burn rate and an air/fuel ratio of 12.65:1 = that I am probably producing around 180-185 HP. On hot days based on = fuel burn of 16.5-17.0 GPH, I calculate around 165-170 HP. The fastest I've ever had the Rv-6A was 200 mph TAS burning round = 13.25-14.5 GPH. But, none of this was done on a dyno - its based on fuel burn and = rpm and we all know a rotary can pass through more fuel than is = producing power. Anyhow, it=92s the best estimate I have. =20 Ed From: Stephen Izett=20 Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 10:31 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop revs Ed=20 Out of interest, what do you think you are getting in HP from your = 13B and at what RPM? Steve Izett On 21/08/2012, at 9:15 PM, Ed Anderson wrote: I would say you have winner. Does of course depend on what prop = load you were pulling during static run.=20 I have a fixed pitch 74x88 and a well-tuned older 13B and the best = I have ever got static - was 6200 rpm on a cold day. Normally, I get = 6000-6100 rpm. =20 So depending on your prop, it looks like you are doing great for = static rpm. Ed From: Neil Unger=20 Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 9:48 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Prop revs All, Looks like I am finally connected after many attempts.. I = have a P ported renesis in a glastar that is ready to fly. Tuning the = motor yesterday to find that I cannot get the motor revs over 6300. I = suspected the prop (prince fixed) is too big, but am assured that that = is normal as a static load. Lonnie suggests that once moving the extra = revs will appear. How do I tune the motor for the top end revs? Any = advice? Neil. No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5211 - Release Date: = 08/20/12 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5212 - Release Date: = 08/20/12 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5217 - Release Date: = 08/22/12 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5218 - Release Date: = 08/22/12 ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01CD8104.5F3B8180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok, didn't have your manifold pressure at run up = so I=20 assume 29" Hg (1" of loss).  Based on that assumption, 6300 rpm and = the=20 fuel flow of 14.1 gph, I came up with 153 HP.  Now to get that with = a 14.1=20 GPH fuel flow it took an A/R of 17:1, (leaner than your stated = A/R). Since=20  you mentioned that you have not yet calibrated the fuel flow, I = suspect=20 that you might be flow more fue -l in which base the HP number would go = up and=20 the A/R down.  
 
Generally best power is found at an A/R of = around 12.6:1 -=20 if I plug that value in at 6300 rpm this is what you should = theoretically=20 see:
 
6300 RPM  A/R 12.6:1 (Best Power) and = 29" Hg MAP=20 =3D 206HP and 19.1 GPH fuel flow.  So you=92re A/R plays = a key role=20 in power being produced at any rpm .
 
So next time if you can, get your manifold = pressure=20 reading and I can give you a better estimate although until you have the = fuel=20 flow calibrated its likely to be inaccurate.
 
Ed

From: Neil Unger
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop revs

ED and all.
        Ran up to 6300 revs = (approx) and=20 the fuel flow was showing 14.1 GPH at 14 A/F ratio.  Not sure that = the fuel=20 flow is correct as has not been set yet. This is Tracy=92s standard = setting so=20 far.   Engine is lumpy under 1800 rpm and has its moments = until over=20 3000 rpm when everything acts normally. Suspect that part of the blame = may be=20 the slide throttle.  Have 6.5 hours on the ground so far and will = check for=20 another few hours yet.  Full noise gives an EGT of 1770, so will = have to up=20 the alarm limit to 1800. Finally fixed all the oil and water = leaks.  Any=20 advice re what to check next before take off ?  Neil.
 
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 9:21 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop revs
 
Hi=20 Ed=20
 
Thanks for the offer but I'm not flying yet.
Hopefully early next year.
 
Steve Izett
Glasair SIIRG Renesis 4 port RD1C EC2 EM3
On 22/08/2012, at 8:51 PM, Ed Anderson wrote:
Steve, if you give me the fuel flow you are = seeing at=20 6300 rpm and manifold pressure, I can give you a pretty good estimate = from my=20 spreadsheet of what power you are producing.  Also should you = happen to=20 have the Air/Fuel ratio that would be a plus but not = essential.
 
Ed
 
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 7:23 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop revs
 
Thanks Ed=20
I've wondered what my Renesis 4 port with a good intake manifold = and in=20 flight adjustable prop will produce.
So on a cold day she will hopefully still breath to 7250RPM and = maybe=20 approach 200HP?
 
Cheers
 
Steve Izett
 
 
On 21/08/2012, at 11:40 PM, Ed Anderson wrote:
Steve,
 
On a cold morning when I can see 19-20 gph = on take off=20 at 6200 rpm, I calculate based on fuel burn rate and an air/fuel = ratio of=20 12.65:1 that I am probably producing around 180-185 HP.  On hot = days=20 based on fuel burn of 16.5-17.0 GPH, I calculate around 165-170=20 HP.
 
The fastest I've ever had the Rv-6A was 200 = mph TAS=20 burning round 13.25-14.5 GPH.
 
But, none of this was done on a dyno - its = based on=20 fuel burn and rpm and  we all know a rotary can pass through = more fuel=20 than is producing power.  Anyhow, it=92s the best estimate I = have. =20
 
Ed
 
From: Stephen Izett
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 10:31 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Prop revs
 
Ed=20
 
Out of interest, what do you think you are getting in HP from = your 13B=20 and at what RPM?
 
Steve Izett
 
 
 
On 21/08/2012, at 9:15 PM, Ed Anderson wrote:
I would say you have  winner.  = Does of=20 course depend on what prop load you were pulling during static = run.=20
 
I have a fixed pitch 74x88 and a = well-tuned older=20 13B and the best I have ever got static - was 6200 rpm on a cold=20 day.  Normally, I get 6000-6100 rpm. 
 
So depending on your prop, it looks like = you are=20 doing great for static rpm.
 
Ed
 
From: Neil=20 Unger
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 9:48 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Prop revs
 
All,
       Looks like I am finally=20 connected after many attempts..  I have a P ported renesis in = a=20 glastar that is ready to fly.  Tuning the motor yesterday to = find=20 that I cannot get the motor revs over 6300.  I suspected the = prop=20 (prince fixed) is too big, but am assured that that is normal as a = static=20 load.  Lonnie suggests that once moving the extra revs will=20 appear.  How do I tune the motor for the top end revs?  = Any=20 advice?  Neil.

No virus found in = this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: = 2012.0.2197 / Virus=20 Database: 2437/5211 - Release Date: = 08/20/12

 

No virus found in = this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 = / Virus=20 Database: 2437/5212 - Release Date: = 08/20/12

 

No virus found in = this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / = Virus=20 Database: 2437/5217 - Release Date: = 08/22/12

 

No virus found in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / = Virus=20 Database: 2437/5218 - Release Date: 08/22/12

------=_NextPart_000_0052_01CD8104.5F3B8180--