X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-bk0-f52.google.com ([209.85.214.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c1) with ESMTPS id 5724732 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 19:43:43 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.52; envelope-from=andrew@martinag.com.au Received: by bkcjf3 with SMTP id jf3so30416bkc.25 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 16:43:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=ZyVZRdNzPj28JByrfvmh3x46Wll9C/OGqFQ4k9MpEs0=; b=VvzbA2gpoXd1kUtqIdDv0TBFprFXEzZRSJw/SmOq6PVs78u7ZmF5n8venUel/y/Iw1 4pG8tiKCOoL2/eGoRw8C9xhGIVETV0bhuYNTu73IHqzeBAiu1U3XhGyFVQc7Q40Ry0vs I6uQFKZsbsvU7CWBeAcJzk5B/llZDbvROhKns22ltV9YypHpU+EnjsvARHURLt7xcVSE 3+nGUN9x+rX26peWZwrG2GH+AF0Hx6OjdcertQKto2jgVx2wHN00LR4G3PHm8Cavqiy1 OlFKXJYEuPI3FOcZ+G9M1TVisCkPCgIeZqfqSEXy3HOrRZlyJMQB4V0cbdqWBSsZuTx/ QWHw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.153.10 with SMTP id i10mr6978816bkw.67.1345678986840; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 16:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.150.138 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 16:43:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [202.40.0.40] In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 07:43:06 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Check Temps on Climbout was e: [FlyRotary] Turboquestion. From: Andrew Martin To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cdd74fe0a4904c7e34d10 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnnowPwgWdbGqhYtT8j7wHjObJczc+Y2VVxXF8aH82OLmR1CT+gI+sSMCEARPjlH/t/CkWL --0015175cdd74fe0a4904c7e34d10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ok, so it has the same effect? Andrew On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 7:29 AM, wrote: > ** > Andrew, I believe the 3 lb spring he is talking about is the wastegate > spring, this limits boost, the 3 lb one is the lowest boost available, as > the springs get stronger the more exhaust is forced through the turbo. > Chris? > > Chrissi & Randi > > www.CozyGirrrl.com * > *ClickBonds 10/$7.50 > CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware > Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop > > > In a message dated 8/22/2012 6:08:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > andrew@martinag.com.au writes: > > Chris > > if your blow off valve is before the intercooler, it may just be opening > too soon with that 3lb spring and allowing all your air to vent, then the > engine would act as NA but with the intercooler as a added restriction. try > a heavier spring. > > Andrew > > On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:53 AM, Chris Barber wrote: > >> Thanks Ed. I am pleased you verified my concern after my cooling >> skyrocketing yesterday when I went to full power. >> >> Trying to determine where the restriction is now. >> >> You are the best. >> >> Sent from my iPhone 4 >> >> On Aug 22, 2012, at 4:48 PM, "Ed Anderson" >> wrote: >> >> > Chris, One thing to be checking on your next take off is your >> coolant/oil temps. As you know take-off is the worst combination of low >> cooling air mass flow and max engine temperature due to WOT. >> > >> > You would be surprised how quickly (with the additional power you now >> have) you will exceed your cooling limits if not careful. So I would be >> certain to check the temps at a frequent rate on your next take-off until >> you know how the system is going to react - hate to see you cook your >> engine during your first real Turbo climb out. >> > >> > I find for my Rv-6A that I needed to get to 120 mph IAS as quick as >> possible to get on the good side of the cooling curve. So that generally >> meant take off - get safely above surround obstructions, then level >> off/reduce climb until airspeed hit 120. Then I could resume climb with >> cooling gradually bring the temps down as altitude and airflow increased. >> Your sweet spot airspeed would undoubtedly be different given different >> platform and cooling set up. >> > >> > Ed >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------- >> > From: "Chris Barber" >> > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 9:17 PM >> > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" >> > Subject: [FlyRotary] Turbo question. >> > >> >> As I have mentioned I have had what I think are incongruent readings >> regarding my manifold pressure (mp)and engine rpm. It seems I am getting >> quite low mp as I add power to higher rpm. >> >> >> >> I am not well versed in this area but my thought is that as I add >> power, even with slight boost (currently using a 3 lb spring in my >> wastegate) eventually my mp should raise a bit more. >> >> >> >> Today I did some static test. I recorded engine RPM with the turbo >> hooked up and recorded the mp at 1000 rpm increments. Then I removed the >> turbo plumbing from my intake and recorded the same info My results >> currently confuse me. >> >> >> >> With the turbo hooked up I am getting >> >> >> >> RPM. MP inches >> >> 2000 - 14.0 >> >> 3000 - 15.5 >> >> 4000 - 19.3 >> >> 5000 - 21.6 >> >> 5700 - 24.5 (topped out) >> >> >> >> With the turbo removed. >> >> >> >> 2000 - 15.8 >> >> 3000 - 15.3 >> >> 4000 - 19.7 >> >> 5000 - 24.8 >> >> 5833 - 29.8 >> >> >> >> Is this indicative of restriction in my plumbing? Perhaps in the inter >> cooler? A dirty air filter? A bad pop off valve or a leak not allowing the >> air pressure getting to the intake. Or???? >> >> >> >> I am uncertain what other permitters I need to check and provide. I am >> just starting my diagnosis in my Phase One testing. I only have 1.6 hours >> in the air so far. I value ya'll's direction and input. >> >> >> >> Heck, perhaps this is working properly but it just doesn't seem >> right/comfortable. >> >> >> >> Thanks folks. >> >> >> >> Chris Barber >> >> Houston >> >> Velocity SE >> >> Rotary 13b turbo (?) :-) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone 4 >> >> -- >> >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> >> No virus found in this message. >> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> >> Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5211 - Release Date: >> 08/20/12 >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> > Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > > > > -- > Regards > > Andrew Martin > Martin Ag > 275 Newmarracarra Rd > Moonyoonooka WA 6532 > > 0427477144 > 08 99241145 > andrew@martinag.com.au > > -- Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag 275 Newmarracarra Rd Moonyoonooka WA 6532 0427477144 08 99241145 andrew@martinag.com.au --0015175cdd74fe0a4904c7e34d10 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok, so it has the same effect?
Andrew

= On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 7:29 AM, <CozyGirrrl@aol.com> wrot= e:
Andrew, I believe the 3 lb spring he is talking about is the wastegate= =20 spring, this limits boost, the 3 lb one is the lowest boost available, as t= he=20 springs get stronger the more exhaust is forced through the turbo.
Chris?
=A0
Chrissi &=20 Randi

www.C= ozyGirrrl.com
ClickBonds=20 10/$7.50
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun= =20 Engine Workshop

=A0
In a message dated 8/22/2012 6:08:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 andrew@martinag= .com.au writes:
Chris

if your blow off valve is before the int= ercooler, it may=20 just be opening too soon with that 3lb spring and allowing all your air t= o=20 vent, then the engine would act as NA but with the intercooler as a added= =20 restriction. try a heavier spring.

Andrew

On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:53 AM, Chris Barber = <cbarber@texasattorney.= net> wrote:
Thanks=20 Ed. I am pleased you verified my concern after my cooling skyrocketing= =20 yesterday when I went to full power.

Trying to determine where t= he=20 restriction is now.

You are the best.

Sent from my iPhone 4

On Aug 22, 2012, at 4:48 PM, "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>=20 wrote:

> Chris, One thing to be checking on your next take of= f is=20 your coolant/oil temps. =A0As you know take-off is the worst combinatio= n=20 of low cooling air mass flow and max engine temperature due to=20 WOT.
>
> You would be surprised how quickly (with the addit= ional=20 power you now have) you will exceed your cooling limits if not careful.= =20 =A0So I would be certain to check the temps at a frequent rate on your= =20 next take-off until you know how the system is going to react - hate to= see=20 you cook your engine during your first real Turbo climb out.
>>=20 I find for my Rv-6A that I needed to get to 120 mph IAS as quick as pos= sible=20 to get on the good side of the cooling curve. =A0So that generally mean= t=20 take off - get safely above surround obstructions, then level off/reduc= e=20 climb until airspeed hit 120. =A0Then I could resume climb with cooling= =20 gradually bring the temps down as altitude and airflow increased. =A0Yo= ur=20 sweet spot airspeed would undoubtedly be different given different plat= form=20 and cooling set up.
>
> Ed
>
>=20 --------------------------------------------------
> From: "= Chris=20 Barber" <cbarber@texasattorney.n= et>
>=20 Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 9:17 PM
> To: "Rotary motors i= n=20 aircraft" <flyrotary@lancair= online.net>
>=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Turbo question.
>
>> As I have ment= ioned=20 I have had what I think are incongruent readings regarding my manifold= =20 pressure (mp)and engine rpm. It seems I am getting quite low mp as I ad= d=20 power to higher rpm.
>>
>> I am not well versed in th= is=20 area but my thought is that as I add power, even with slight boost=20 (currently using a 3 lb spring in my wastegate) eventually my mp should= =20 raise a bit more.
>>
>> Today I did some static test.= I=20 recorded engine RPM with the =A0turbo hooked up and recorded the mp at= =20 1000 rpm increments. Then I removed the turbo plumbing from my intake a= nd=20 recorded the same info My results currently confuse=20 me.
>>
>> With the turbo hooked up I am=20 getting
>>
>> RPM. =A0 MP inches
>> 2000 -= =20 14.0
>> 3000 - 15.5
>> 4000 - 19.3
>> 5000 -= =20 21.6
>> 5700 - 24.5 (topped out)
>>
>> With = the=20 turbo removed.
>>
>> 2000 - 15.8
>> 3000 -= =20 15.3
>> 4000 - 19.7
>> 5000 - 24.8
>> 5833 -= =20 29.8
>>
>> Is this indicative of restriction in my=20 plumbing? Perhaps in the inter cooler? A dirty air filter? A bad pop of= f=20 valve or a leak not allowing the air pressure getting to the intake.=20 Or????
>>
>> I am uncertain what other permitters I n= eed=20 to check and provide. I am just starting my diagnosis in my Phase One= =20 testing. I only have 1.6 hours in the air so far. I value ya'll'= ;s direction=20 and input.
>>
>> Heck, perhaps this is working proper= ly=20 but it just doesn't seem right/comfortable.
>>
>>= Thanks=20 folks.
>>
>> Chris Barber
>> Houston
>= >=20 Velocity SE
>> Rotary 13b turbo (?)=20 :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone= =20 4
>> --
>> Homepage: =A0http://www.f= lyrotary.com/
>> Archive and UnSub:=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html<= br> >>
>>
>>=20 -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked b= y AVG=20 - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus=20 Database: 2437/5211 - Release Date: 08/20/12
>>
>
>= ;=20 --
> Homepage: =A0http://www.flyrotary.com/<= br>> Archive and UnSub:=20 =A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html<= /a>

--
Homepage:=20 =A0http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:= =A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=



--
Regards
=
Andrew Martin
Martin Ag
275=20 Newmarracarra Rd
Moonyoonooka WA 6532

0427477144
08=20 99241145
andrew@martinag.com.au



--
Regards

Andrew Martin
Martin Ag<= br>275 Newmarracarra Rd
Moonyoonooka WA 6532

0427477144
08 992= 41145
andrew@martinag.com.au
--0015175cdd74fe0a4904c7e34d10--