X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-da01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.143] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0c1) with ESMTP id 5724708 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 19:29:54 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.105.143; envelope-from=CozyGirrrl@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.139]) by imr-da01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q7MNTDWf024559 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 19:29:13 -0400 Received: from core-dsb001c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-dsb001.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.253.1]) by mtaomg-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 9E61BE00008E for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2012 19:29:13 -0400 (EDT) From: CozyGirrrl@aol.com Message-ID: <46a47.5a2ffba3.3d66c549@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 19:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Check Temps on Climbout was e: [FlyRotary] Turboquestion. To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_46a47.5a2ffba3.3d66c549_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 5004 X-Originating-IP: [70.242.64.66] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20110426; t=1345678153; bh=cllEQfYuNO0j5XMo2gBOxAbC3MpRyTMB6JTZrxF5AtI=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=JJoi9tV7YjEjALRFAG1fzBJTsfIZYJpBEVB3Q2fwQYPrkJG5BwffeBKBfRC5JXn3t /bN5JrKF3dbJ40iYQZRKQDzXBeRjDvC7RMFP79mIi/euJTLA8M8POoS42J4al8XNoT tQ+E88YIf0zvLnb+Z1cCJO5WgOxQ6mEZLyiF3SMg= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:466197280:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338b50356b490004 --part1_46a47.5a2ffba3.3d66c549_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew, I believe the 3 lb spring he is talking about is the wastegate spring, this limits boost, the 3 lb one is the lowest boost available, as the springs get stronger the more exhaust is forced through the turbo. Chris? Chrissi & Randi _www.CozyGirrrl.com_ (http://www.cozygirrrl.com/) ClickBonds 10/$7.50 CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop In a message dated 8/22/2012 6:08:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, andrew@martinag.com.au writes: Chris if your blow off valve is before the intercooler, it may just be opening too soon with that 3lb spring and allowing all your air to vent, then the engine would act as NA but with the intercooler as a added restriction. try a heavier spring. Andrew On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:53 AM, Chris Barber <_cbarber@texasattorney.net_ (mailto:cbarber@texasattorney.net) > wrote: Thanks Ed. I am pleased you verified my concern after my cooling skyrocketing yesterday when I went to full power. Trying to determine where the restriction is now. You are the best. Sent from my iPhone 4 On Aug 22, 2012, at 4:48 PM, "Ed Anderson" <_eanderson@carolina.rr.com_ (mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com) > wrote: > Chris, One thing to be checking on your next take off is your coolant/oil temps. As you know take-off is the worst combination of low cooling air mass flow and max engine temperature due to WOT. > > You would be surprised how quickly (with the additional power you now have) you will exceed your cooling limits if not careful. So I would be certain to check the temps at a frequent rate on your next take-off until you know how the system is going to react - hate to see you cook your engine during your first real Turbo climb out. > > I find for my Rv-6A that I needed to get to 120 mph IAS as quick as possible to get on the good side of the cooling curve. So that generally meant take off - get safely above surround obstructions, then level off/reduce climb until airspeed hit 120. Then I could resume climb with cooling gradually bring the temps down as altitude and airflow increased. Your sweet spot airspeed would undoubtedly be different given different platform and cooling set up. > > Ed > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Chris Barber" <_cbarber@texasattorney.net_ (mailto:cbarber@texasattorney.net) > > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 9:17 PM > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Turbo question. > >> As I have mentioned I have had what I think are incongruent readings regarding my manifold pressure (mp)and engine rpm. It seems I am getting quite low mp as I add power to higher rpm. >> >> I am not well versed in this area but my thought is that as I add power, even with slight boost (currently using a 3 lb spring in my wastegate) eventually my mp should raise a bit more. >> >> Today I did some static test. I recorded engine RPM with the turbo hooked up and recorded the mp at 1000 rpm increments. Then I removed the turbo plumbing from my intake and recorded the same info My results currently confuse me. >> >> With the turbo hooked up I am getting >> >> RPM. MP inches >> 2000 - 14.0 >> 3000 - 15.5 >> 4000 - 19.3 >> 5000 - 21.6 >> 5700 - 24.5 (topped out) >> >> With the turbo removed. >> >> 2000 - 15.8 >> 3000 - 15.3 >> 4000 - 19.7 >> 5000 - 24.8 >> 5833 - 29.8 >> >> Is this indicative of restriction in my plumbing? Perhaps in the inter cooler? A dirty air filter? A bad pop off valve or a leak not allowing the air pressure getting to the intake. Or???? >> >> I am uncertain what other permitters I need to check and provide. I am just starting my diagnosis in my Phase One testing. I only have 1.6 hours in the air so far. I value ya'll's direction and input. >> >> Heck, perhaps this is working properly but it just doesn't seem right/comfortable. >> >> Thanks folks. >> >> Chris Barber >> Houston >> Velocity SE >> Rotary 13b turbo (?) :-) >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone 4 >> -- >> Homepage: _http://www.flyrotary.com/_ (http://www.flyrotary.com/) >> Archive and UnSub: _http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html_ (http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html) >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - _www.avg.com_ (http://www.avg.com/) >> Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5211 - Release Date: 08/20/12 >> > > -- > Homepage: _http://www.flyrotary.com/_ (http://www.flyrotary.com/) > Archive and UnSub: _http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html_ (http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html) -- Homepage: _http://www.flyrotary.com/_ (http://www.flyrotary.com/) Archive and UnSub: _http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html_ (http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html) -- Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag 275 Newmarracarra Rd Moonyoonooka WA 6532 0427477144 08 99241145 _andrew@martinag.com.au_ (mailto:andrew@martinag.com.au) --part1_46a47.5a2ffba3.3d66c549_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Andrew, I believe the 3 lb spring he is talking about is the wastegate= =20 spring, this limits boost, the 3 lb one is the lowest boost available, as t= he=20 springs get stronger the more exhaust is forced through the turbo.
Chris?
 
Chrissi &=20 Randi

www.CozyGirrrl.com
ClickB= onds=20 10/$7.50
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun= =20 Engine Workshop
 
In a message dated 8/22/2012 6:08:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 andrew@martinag.com.au writes:
= Chris

if your blow off valve is before the intercooler, i= t may=20 just be opening too soon with that 3lb spring and allowing all your air t= o=20 vent, then the engine would act as NA but with the intercooler as a added= =20 restriction. try a heavier spring.

Andrew

On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:53 AM, Chris Barber <cbarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:
Thanks=20 Ed. I am pleased you verified my concern after my cooling skyrocketing= =20 yesterday when I went to full power.

Trying to determine where t= he=20 restriction is now.

You are the best.

Sent from my iPhone 4

On Aug 22, 2012, at 4:48 PM, "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com= >=20 wrote:

> Chris, One thing to be checking on your next take of= f is=20 your coolant/oil temps.  As you know take-off is the worst combina= tion=20 of low cooling air mass flow and max engine temperature due to=20 WOT.
>
> You would be surprised how quickly (with the addit= ional=20 power you now have) you will exceed your cooling limits if not careful.= =20  So I would be certain to check the temps at a frequent rate on yo= ur=20 next take-off until you know how the system is going to react - hate to= see=20 you cook your engine during your first real Turbo climb out.
>>=20 I find for my Rv-6A that I needed to get to 120 mph IAS as quick as pos= sible=20 to get on the good side of the cooling curve.  So that generally m= eant=20 take off - get safely above surround obstructions, then level off/reduc= e=20 climb until airspeed hit 120.  Then I could resume climb with cool= ing=20 gradually bring the temps down as altitude and airflow increased.  = ;Your=20 sweet spot airspeed would undoubtedly be different given different plat= form=20 and cooling set up.
>
> Ed
>
>=20 --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Chris= =20 Barber" <cbarber@texasattorney.net= >
>=20 Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 9:17 PM
> To: "Rotary motors in=20 aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net= >
>=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Turbo question.
>
>> As I have ment= ioned=20 I have had what I think are incongruent readings regarding my manifold= =20 pressure (mp)and engine rpm. It seems I am getting quite low mp as I ad= d=20 power to higher rpm.
>>
>> I am not well versed in th= is=20 area but my thought is that as I add power, even with slight boost=20 (currently using a 3 lb spring in my wastegate) eventually my mp should= =20 raise a bit more.
>>
>> Today I did some static test.= I=20 recorded engine RPM with the  turbo hooked up and recorded the mp = at=20 1000 rpm increments. Then I removed the turbo plumbing from my intake a= nd=20 recorded the same info My results currently confuse=20 me.
>>
>> With the turbo hooked up I am=20 getting
>>
>> RPM.   MP inches
>> 2000 = -=20 14.0
>> 3000 - 15.5
>> 4000 - 19.3
>> 5000 -= =20 21.6
>> 5700 - 24.5 (topped out)
>>
>> With = the=20 turbo removed.
>>
>> 2000 - 15.8
>> 3000 -= =20 15.3
>> 4000 - 19.7
>> 5000 - 24.8
>> 5833 -= =20 29.8
>>
>> Is this indicative of restriction in my=20 plumbing? Perhaps in the inter cooler? A dirty air filter? A bad pop of= f=20 valve or a leak not allowing the air pressure getting to the intake.=20 Or????
>>
>> I am uncertain what other permitters I n= eed=20 to check and provide. I am just starting my diagnosis in my Phase One= =20 testing. I only have 1.6 hours in the air so far. I value ya'll's direc= tion=20 and input.
>>
>> Heck, perhaps this is working proper= ly=20 but it just doesn't seem right/comfortable.
>>
>> Tha= nks=20 folks.
>>
>> Chris Barber
>> Houston
>= >=20 Velocity SE
>> Rotary 13b turbo (?)=20 :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone= =20 4
>> --
>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> Archive and U= nSub:=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.h= tml
>>
>>
>>=20 -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked b= y AVG=20 - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2197 / Viru= s=20 Database: 2437/5211 - Release Date: 08/20/12
>>
>
>= ;=20 --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub= :=20   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.h= tml

--
Homepage:=20  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: &nb= sp; http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.h= tml


--
Regards

Andrew Martin
Martin Ag
275= =20 Newmarracarra Rd
Moonyoonooka WA 6532

0427477144
08=20 99241145
andrew@martinag.com.au
 --part1_46a47.5a2ffba3.3d66c549_boundary--