X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-wy0-f180.google.com ([74.125.82.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTPS id 5047028 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 09 Jul 2011 15:03:46 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.82.180; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by wye20 with SMTP id 20so1962196wye.25 for ; Sat, 09 Jul 2011 12:03:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=tQvKA0sUDW7I+xjnL0rtMHH4hB1jQQta0P6KIOnp0LI=; b=H1RUc+dP3pPrgpW3qDyEzwBbyfyEhayIDWkMMVgH33bCq+Kf2n9g0f6LADKzG0fH5H tY563scl53JVmC63jJQ/Ew7Mz7kxxrMo0uOPjfiF7SHsXfPfEJWpj2yyarPjffFp19YO o7jpYTY9Dyyy8pry/GlONtZf3syogwIKptHuo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.198.146 with SMTP id v18mr2682326wen.94.1310238191605; Sat, 09 Jul 2011 12:03:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.90.205 with HTTP; Sat, 9 Jul 2011 12:03:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2011 15:03:11 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: sheilded plug wires From: Tracy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d59e1bfb57fb04a7a7997c --0016e6d59e1bfb57fb04a7a7997c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I tried shielding solid wire ignition leads on my first engine back in 1994. It caused the old 2nd gen coils to malfunction and miss badly for some reason. Didn't try it on other coils. The spiral wound wires are the way to go IMO. Never had a problem with ignition or radio noise since using them. Tracy On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > Brian > Apparently the shield you are proposeing is not a good Idea..........The > reason why is noted in the > "Magnacor" link in my previous post................ > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > *From:* "bktrub@aol.com" > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Saturday, July 9, 2011 11:51 AM > > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: sheilded plug wires > > Ok, theory is nice, I prefer to just think it is all magic. My > apologies, but I am the product of our public school system : ) > > What I'd like to know is this- am I fabricating the wires correctly? I cut > the insulation about 1/2 inch back from the inner conductor, and then crimp > the terminal so that the conductor is folded back against the wire under the > terminal crimp. > There is no outer braid or anything which actually grounds against the > engine. I am thinking of putting an outer braid around the wires and then > grounding that on one end. > > Brian Trubee > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlie England > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Sat, Jul 9, 2011 9:11 am > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: sheilded plug wires > > To expand on that for the electron-challenged, an inductor is effectively a > frequency dependent resistor. The higher the frequency, the higher the > resistance. So, the fundamental pulse to the plug makes it through (though > slowed slightly), while the harmonics (noise) that were generated can't get > past the extra resistance presented to them. > > The reverse is true for a capacitor. That's one of the reasons why you see > capacitors with one leg tied to the power supply & the other to ground. The > capacitor blocks DC but passes higher frequencies (the noise) to ground. > > I have no doubt that the above will make physicists cringe, but it's close > enough to working knowledge for us builders to use. > > Charlie > > On 07/09/2011 08:28 AM, Tracy wrote: > > In this case "shielded" is the wrong term. The spiral wire does not > actually shield the noise, it prevents the noise from being transmitted. > It acts as an inductor to prevent the propagation of the noise generated at > the spark gap from propagating up the wire. > > Tracy > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jul 9, 2011, at 2:09 AM, Lehanover@aol.com wrote: > > It has to do with the resistance of the long thin Monel wire. An > impedance mismatch and inductive reactance. What the mechanism is I do not > know. That is why Tracy is here, to explain such matters. > > Lynn E. Hanover > > In a message dated 7/8/2011 11:08:09 P.M. Paraguay Standard Time, > SBoese@uwyo.edu writes: > > My last massage got a little garbled, the way I have my wires configured > now, the conductor and spiral wrap are exposed and folded under the crimped > teminal ends, so aren't both the conductor and the spiral wrap acting as a > conductor? What is doing the shielding? > > Brian Trubee > > > > > --0016e6d59e1bfb57fb04a7a7997c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I tried shielding solid wire ignition leads on my first engine back in 1994= .=A0 It caused the old 2nd gen coils to malfunction and miss badly for some= reason.=A0=A0 Didn't try it on other coils.=A0 The spiral wound wires = are the way to go IMO.=A0 Never had a problem with ignition or radio noise = since using them.

Tracy


On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 12:5= 6 PM, Kelly Troyer <= keltro@att.net> wrote:
Br= ian
=A0=A0 Apparently the shield you are proposeing is not a good Id= ea..........The reason why is noted in the
"Magnacor"=A0link in my previous post......= ..........
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" = (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
&quo= t;MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

= From: "bktrub@aol.com" <bktrub@aol.com>

To: Rotary motors in a= ircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 9, 2011 11:51 AM

Subject: [FlyRotary] R= e: sheilded plug wires

Ok,=A0 theory is nice, I= =A0prefer to just think it is all magic.=A0My apologies, but I am the produ= ct of our public school system : )
=A0
What I'd like to know = is this-=A0am I fabricating the wires correctly? I cut the insulation about= 1/2 inch back from the inner conductor, and then crimp the terminal so tha= t the conductor is folded back against the wire under the terminal crimp.
There is no outer braid or anything which actually grounds against the= engine. I am thinking of putting an outer braid around the wires and then = grounding that on one end.
=A0
Brian Trubee



-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net><= br> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, J= ul 9, 2011 9:11 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: sheilded plug wires

To expand on that for the electron-challenged, an inductor is effectiv= ely a frequency dependent resistor. The higher the frequency, the higher th= e resistance. So, the fundamental pulse to the plug makes it through (thoug= h slowed slightly), while the harmonics (noise) that were generated=A0 can&= #39;t get past the extra resistance presented to them.

The reverse is true for a capacitor. That's one of the reasons why = you see capacitors with one leg tied to the power supply & the other to= ground. The capacitor blocks DC but passes higher frequencies (the noise) = to ground.

I have no doubt that the above will make physicists cringe, but it'= s close enough to working knowledge for us builders to use.

Charlie<= br>
On 07/09/2011 08:28 AM, Tracy wrote:=20
In this case "shielded" is the wrong term. =A0 The spiral wi= re does not actually shield the noise, it prevents the noise from being tra= nsmitted. =A0 =A0It acts as an inductor to prevent the propagation of the n= oise generated at the spark gap from propagating up the wire.

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 9, 2011, at 2:09 AM, Lehanover@aol.com wrote:

It has to do with the resistance of the long thin Monel wire. An imped= ance mismatch and inductive reactance. What the mechanism is I do not know.= That is why Tracy is here, to explain such matters.
=A0
Lynn E. Hanover
=A0
In a message dated 7/8/2011 11:08:09 P.M. Paraguay Standard Time, SBoese@uw= yo.edu writes:
My last massage got a little garbled, the way I have my wires configur= ed now, the conductor and spiral wrap are exposed and folded under the crim= ped teminal ends, so aren't both the conductor and the spiral wrap acti= ng as a conductor? What is doing the shielding?
=A0
Brian Trubee




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