X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-fx0-f42.google.com ([209.85.161.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTPS id 5041776 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 06:29:28 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.42; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by fxe23 with SMTP id 23so4304609fxe.1 for ; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 03:28:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=k66coYON99Y3DspO0IVDDOKckKiVGdhZpqQA/yzDr+w=; b=X3OYeKswiMbx2LWsqxg4uNu8SdfGJN7PVpJyjMRhW6sTrZFpongtWC6ojOgyWXjfgM OnQqC5AM155J/ibfUjRRFFEXPXKRPeCEKLHaBctVHOVdReOgOKaU8gmZ3wjHOwyrLLgR LLmRpokG1vpCigZqgPjGJRYK6o5EwHoh/uUag= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.5.17 with SMTP id 17mr5082628fat.25.1309775330706; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 03:28:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.86.206 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Jul 2011 03:28:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 05:28:50 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Leaking injectors? From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174789e85285a404a73bd597 --0015174789e85285a404a73bd597 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Kelly, Yes, the crossover is good for handling a leaky injector, but IMHO the more important feature is to ensure that you can get a re-start if you run a tank dry. As I stated earlier, the Eggenfellner bunch had this problem and fixed it with the crossover circuit. EFI pumps aren't very good at sucking/pumping air. That's why I incorporated a crossover circuit into my fuel system. I make it a rule to never run a tank completely dry, but if it happens, I can rest assured that I can get fuel pressure restored again by switching tanks. Mark On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > I agree Mark !!.........I never had flooding problems again after > installing the by-pass on > my well worn 88 RX7.................On an auto you do not have the ability > to shut down the > fuel pump as has been suggested plus as Steve noted even that was not > enough to > keep an extremely worn injector from leaking enough to > cause flooding............. > > Thanks to all of the group that shared their ideas and "Real World > Experiences"........ > This is what sets this group apart from some on the net............You guys > (and girls) > freely share your trials and tribulations whether successful or failures > so your fellow > "Rotorheads" do not have to reinvent the wheel ............... > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > *From:* Mark Steitle > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Sunday, July 3, 2011 9:48 PM > > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Leaking injectors? > > ...and another good argument for having a bleed-bypass circuit. ;-) > > Mark > > On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Steven W. Boese wrote: > > My standard shutdown procedure has always been to cut the power to the > fuel pumps until the engine stops and then shut down the power to the rest > of the system. In early May, after sitting overnight at an airport away > from home, the engine started on only one rotor and then started to run on > both rotors after a few seconds. It did this twice more after being shut > down at least overnight. Finally, the engine refused to start at all. > Removing the spark plugs indicated a flooded condition, much more evident on > rotor one than rotor two. Removing the injectors and pressurizing them on > my injector test rail, the primary injector of rotor one leaked fuel at a > slow drip and the secondary injector of rotor two would form a drop of fuel > that would evaporate fast enough that it didn't actually drip. The other > two injectors remained dry. Since all those injectors were most likely the > original ones from 1986 and had well over 100,000 miles before use in the > aircraft, I replaced them with new ones from RC Engineering. I haven't had > flooding problems since the replacement. Apparently, there was enough fuel > that could leak through the injectors and cause flooding even after the > shutdown procedure that involved killing the engine by shutting off the fuel > pumps. Probably, heat soaking the firewall forward fuel lines and fuel > after shutdown resulted in pressure buildup and enough fuel leaking through > the worn injectors to cause a problem. Just my recent experience for what > it is worth. > > Steve Boese > RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2 > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf > of Charlie England [ceengland@bellsouth.net] > *Sent:* Sunday, July 03, 2011 1:59 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Leaking injectors? > > I think that the idea is to shut down the pump(s) with the engine > running. The injectors will continue to do their thing, & the engine quits > when pressure drops too low to flow through the open injectors. > > Charlie > > On 07/03/2011 02:28 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > > No !!...........The check valve is located in the inlet to the pump and > will hold regulated pressure > indefinately or until relieved by leaky injectors or the afore mentioned > bypass sysrem......... > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > *From:* Ernest Christley > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Sunday, July 3, 2011 2:15 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Leaking injectors? > > On 07/02/2011 09:52 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > > Ernest, > Your EFI fuel pumps have a check valve in them and will hold > regulated pressure > for a long time or until leaky injectors relieve this > pressure..........Short of replacing > the injectors the fix is to put a pressure relief orifice from the > fuel pressure line to > the fuel return line... > > > Shouldn't shutting down by cutting power to the fuel pump relieve the > pressure, though? > > > > > > > --0015174789e85285a404a73bd597 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kelly,=A0

Yes, the crossover is good for handling a leak= y injector, but IMHO the more important feature is to ensure that you can g= et a re-start if you run a tank dry. =A0As I stated earlier, the Eggenfelln= er bunch had this problem and fixed it with the crossover circuit. =A0EFI p= umps aren't very good at sucking/pumping air. =A0That's why I incor= porated a crossover circuit into my fuel system. =A0I make it a rule to nev= er run a tank completely dry, but if it happens, I can rest assured that I = can get fuel pressure restored again by switching tanks.

Mark

On Sun, Jul 3, 2= 011 at 10:39 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
I agree Mark=A0!!.........I ne= ver had flooding problems again after installing the by-pass on
my well worn=A088 RX7.................On an auto you do not have= the ability to shut down the
fuel pump as has been suggested plus as Steve noted=A0even that = was not enough to=A0
keep an extremely worn injector from leaking enough to cause=A0= =A0flooding.............=A0
=A0
Thanks to all of the group that shared their ideas and "Rea= l World Experiences"........
This is what=A0sets this group apart from some on the net.......= .....You guys (and girls)=A0
freely share your trials and tribulations whether s= uccessful or failures so your fellow
"Rotorheads" do not have to reinvent the = wheel=A0...............
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" = (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
&quo= t;MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Mark Steitle <= ;msteitle@gmail.com= >

To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 3, = 2011 9:48 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Leaking injectors?
=

...and another good argument for having a bleed-bypass circuit. =A0;-)

Mark

On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Steven W. Boese <= SBoes= e@uwyo.edu> wrote:
My standard shutdown procedure has always been to cut the power to the= fuel pumps until the engine stops and then shut down the power to the rest= of the system.=A0 In early May, after sitting overnight at an airport away= from home, the engine started on only one rotor and then started to run on= both rotors after a few seconds.=A0 It did this twice more after being shu= t down at least overnight.=A0 Finally, the engine refused to start at all.= =A0 Removing the spark plugs indicated a flooded condition, much more evide= nt on rotor one=A0than rotor two.=A0 Removing the injectors and pressurizin= g them on my injector test rail, the primary injector of rotor one leaked f= uel at a slow drip and the secondary injector of rotor two would form a dro= p of fuel that would evaporate fast enough that it didn't actually drip= .=A0 The other two injectors remained dry.=A0 Since all=A0those injectors w= ere most likely the original ones from 1986 and had well over 100,000 miles before use in the aircraft, I replaced the= m with new ones from RC Engineering.=A0 I haven't had flooding problems= since the replacement.=A0 Apparently, there=A0was enough fuel that could l= eak through the injectors and cause flooding even after the shutdown proced= ure that involved killing the engine by shutting off the fuel pumps.=A0 Pro= bably, heat soaking the firewall forward=A0fuel lines and fuel after shutdo= wn resulted in pressure buildup and enough fuel leaking through the worn in= jectors to cause a problem.=A0 Just my recent experience for what it is wor= th.
=A0
Stev= e Boese
RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2
=A0
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline= .net] on behalf of Charlie England [ceengland@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 1:59 PM
To: Rotary motors in a= ircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Leaking injectors?
I think that the idea is to shut down the pump(s) with the engine runn= ing. The injectors will continue to do their thing, & the engine quits = when pressure drops too low to flow through the open injectors.

Charlie

On 07/03/2011 02:28 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:=20
No !!...........The check valve is located in the inlet to the p= ump and will hold regulated=A0pressure
indefinately or until relieved by=A0leaky injectors or the afore menti= oned bypass sysrem.........
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" = (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
&quo= t;MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

= From: Ernest Christley <echristley@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraf= t <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 3, 2011 2:15 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Lea= king injectors?

On 07/02/2011 09:52 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote:=20
Ernest,
=A0=A0=A0 Your=A0EFI fuel= pumps have a check valve in them and will hold regulated=A0pressure=
for a long time or until leaky injectors relieve this pressure..= ........Short of replacing=
the injectors the=A0fix is to put a pressure relief = orifice from the fuel=A0pressure li= ne=A0 to
the=A0fuel return line...

Shouldn't shutting down by cutting power to the fuel pump= relieve the pressure, though?







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