X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ew0-f52.google.com ([209.85.215.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTPS id 5041569 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 04 Jul 2011 00:41:58 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.215.52; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by ewy28 with SMTP id 28so1560886ewy.25 for ; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 21:41:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=e8U9wjlWbl4jJPS8phfOen8HTscxhgW0cf0WwR+yTm4=; b=KqLQb/uEXdTrN0Uf45Qv6/cPT8mm/csl1uAZxeOv6jQJnUtEBUbt84rsUAIGh3a0X0 2Xwz8MtxiUyAlB0LaqZpfN9IBS7CqIe3IFzJwQmUwdQlGanpv/9o6yEmR15ipr4lMRrO oCt4c8QoA8YS79r1gwv9VdrVM92WTSy6uznCk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.213.110.18 with SMTP id l18mr1081446ebp.57.1309754482578; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 21:41:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.213.114.74 with HTTP; Sun, 3 Jul 2011 21:41:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 21:41:22 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: VNE / Flutter Testing From: David Leonard To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001517401e3aad567104a736fa59 --001517401e3aad567104a736fa59 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 All that is exactly correct. Except, the real flutter test procedure is: 1) dicide on your Vne 2) fly 10 kts faster than that number (usually in a dive) 3) If you are still alive, test passed. End of test. :-) Dave Leonard 3) If you are still alive, decided Vne is now official. On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 4:01 PM, wrote: > ** > That is a slightly different animal than a flap or aileron flutter. More > like the trailing end of a flag that flutters continuously. > > Flutter is a very high speed oscillation of usually an elevator or aileron. > > After a paint job all moveable surfaces should be re-balanced to perfection > or as close to that as is possible. No play caused by wear in any hinges is > allowed. Use spherical rod ends were possible rather than bushings. Design > in the longest throws allowed by space. This to reduce the effect of wear in > rod ends. Add counter balance weights close to control horns. Build moveable > surfaces to be torsionally rigid. > > Do flutter tests on the ground by exciting suspect parts with transducers. > A fluttering aileron can take off a wing like it hit a tree. > > Lynn E. Hanover > > > > In a message dated 7/3/2011 5:47:13 P.M. Paraguay Standard Time, > thomasmann51@gmail.com writes: > > This is what flutter looks like in a canard. > www.cozybuilders.org/Movies/Varieze_Canard_Flutter_RR-Small.wmv > > > > On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > >> Ernest, >> The procedure is to test with many steps increasing speed in small >> increments always ready >> to reduce throttle and increase AOA at the slightest indication of >> flutter.............. >> >> Kelly Troyer >> *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* >> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 >> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold >> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo >> >> *From:* Ernest Christley >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Sent:* Sunday, July 3, 2011 2:11 PM >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: GSL393/74028 Fuel Pump Replacement/Fuel Leak >> >> On 07/02/2011 11:12 AM, Thomas Mann wrote: >> >> I know that the plans built composite aircraft (Rutan designs and >> derivatives) can have a Vne that can be higher or lower than the design >> specs as a direct result of workmanship. Each (in my case a Long-EZ) >> aircraft is a one-off and only flight testing can determine the TRUE >> V-speeds. >> I think that is less of a factor in the RV world but a factor just the >> same. >> Flutter is really ugly. >> >> How is the Vne testing performed? I can't think of anything other than >> pushing the throttle to the firewall and waiting to see what happens, but >> that sounds awful dangerous to me. >> >> >> > -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net --001517401e3aad567104a736fa59 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All that is exactly=A0correct. =A0Except, the real flutter test procedure i= s:
1) dicide on your Vne
2) fly 10 kts faster than that numbe= r (usually in a dive)
3) If you are still alive, test passed.
End of test. =A0:-)

Dave Leonard

3) If you are still alive, decided Vne is now o= fficial.

On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 4:01 PM, = <Lehanover@aol.c= om> wrote:
That is a slightly different animal than a flap or aileron flutter. Mo= re=20 like the trailing end of a flag that flutters continuously.
=A0
Flutter is a very high speed oscillation of usually an elevator or ail= eron.=20
After a paint job all moveable surfaces should be re-balanced to perfe= ction=20 or as close to that as is possible. No play caused by wear in any hinges is= =20 allowed. Use spherical rod ends were possible rather than bushings. Design = in=20 the longest throws allowed by space. This to reduce the effect of wear in r= od=20 ends. Add counter balance weights close to control horns. Build moveable=20 surfaces to be torsionally rigid.
=A0
Do flutter tests on the ground by exciting suspect parts with transduc= ers.=20 A fluttering aileron can take off a wing like it hit a tree.
=A0
Lynn E. Hanover
=A0
=A0
=A0
In a message dated 7/3/2011 5:47:13 P.M. Paraguay Standard Time,=20 thomasmann51@gm= ail.com writes:
This is=20 what flutter looks like in a canard.=A0=20



On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Kelly Troyer <= span dir=3D"ltr"><keltro@att.net> wrote:
Ernest,
=A0=A0 The procedure is to test with many steps increasing= =20 speed in small increments always ready
to reduce throttle and increase=A0AOA=A0at the=20 slightest indication of flutter..............
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
= "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil=20 Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Ernest=20 Christley <echristley@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 3, 2011 2= :11=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotar= y] Re:=20 GSL393/74028 Fuel Pump Replacement/Fuel Leak

On 07/02/2011 11:12 AM, Thomas Mann wrote:=20
I know that the plans built composite aircraft (Rutan designs an= d=20 derivatives) can have a Vne that can be higher or lower than the desi= gn=20 specs as a direct result of workmanship. Each (in my case a Long-EZ)= =20 aircraft is a one-off and only flight testing can determine the TRUE= =20 V-speeds.
I think that is less of a factor in the RV world but a factor ju= st=20 the same.
Flutter is really ugly.
How is the Vne t= esting=20 performed?=A0 I can't think of anything other than pushing the thro= ttle=20 to the firewall and waiting to see what happens, but that sounds awful= =20 dangerous to=20 me.






--
David Leonard

Tu= rbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4V= Y.RotaryRoster.net
http://Rotary= Roster.net
--001517401e3aad567104a736fa59--