X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm30-vm0.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.44.194] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with SMTP id 5041538 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 23:40:13 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.44.194; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from [98.139.44.103] by nm30.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2011 03:39:36 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.69] by tm8.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2011 03:39:36 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1006.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jul 2011 03:39:36 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 420308.44196.bm@omp1006.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 16431 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jul 2011 03:39:36 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1309750776; bh=MyzkfMFkuHJnXzy4gkhSMefounqDgk6DkFVhQ0mc+W4=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=3P7qEYq2/VULS5X/lxEIA9JY7HZfvyaCzdkJN1s2LKaYXm18tjQFLOhk6IIPmOYmdwvGU+XoPAHmf3bO7SDwt4sKgfdQe7aSs7ATgzQJKgXhfwzVYGY+YvP5OmIPRgl+7nFhZw+040bKCKIYmCDQLV3w+PD5JnhH4xmiMj+rKgQ= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=aFtRkr+uWFAauTuLeaOjcvTb8zkmzxLHQGPqpZOZFAjLZkxH3H17m+K0zY5mCNmI8IAkhITKcdgn+UEz0IpYXbJRLVBDyVuYth5Nw8awGNTtYBMGPaFXd0HD4Egcd+p6VnAFlvj2n1qZysUPPfXqpjybMC6zZ4Mck+YYtZQ7gU4=; X-YMail-OSG: Q1WbRasVM1nAFw_KJ4_glfy1_.rUv2eOXOwhtcRwPPSySqZ bqcXyiScQyTkFbOMMHymMWytM_6zFp8VOxj.V1m.P7RgQXUbugYv2Aii3.Zj lb57TPDtmbDChVSfjdkFAckCuV0E_bPbciv6CBgC1yD5eDEwGYDGz772Hjs4 mD5Znq4iCLFuVhK46UQJ0gC.LCynv2K5fqjx4wodQrAubVTBxyJIVf8dh7sw Uz5KfgfaZ.1IIhulVDwpc8Hr9lwPrrcN7OhxnjDvCxBdvYIwRjI_gQc2Pd86 iB8XAoaLXFrDT9EReoR76sYgjW_zpbbApShnSUWsBIuqGFN1CZlnsyjCDPAO Nz60mpUMb5BdQxkgz Received: from [208.114.39.18] by web83909.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 20:39:36 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.112.307740 References: Message-ID: <1309750776.45390.YahooMailNeo@web83909.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 20:39:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Reply-To: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: Leaking injectors? To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1755000934-1309750776=:45390" --0-1755000934-1309750776=:45390 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree Mark=A0!!.........I never had flooding problems again after install= ing the by-pass on=0Amy well worn=A088 RX7.................On an auto you d= o not have the ability to shut down the=0Afuel pump as has been suggested p= lus as Steve noted=A0even that was not enough to=A0=0Akeep an extremely wor= n injector from leaking enough to cause=A0=A0flooding.............=A0=0A=A0= =0AThanks to all of the group that shared their ideas and "Real World Exper= iences"........=0AThis is what=A0sets this group apart from some on the net= ............You guys (and girls)=A0 =0Afreely share your trials and tribula= tions whether successful or failures so your fellow =0A"Rotorheads" do not = have to reinvent the wheel=A0...............=0A=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELT= A JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"= _Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0AFrom: Mark Steitl= e =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Sunday, July 3, 2011 9:48 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: L= eaking injectors?=0A=0A=0A...and another good argument for having a bleed-b= ypass circuit. =A0;-) =0A=0AMark=0A=0A=0AOn Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 9:13 PM, St= even W. Boese wrote:=0A=0AMy standard shutdown procedure = has always been to cut the power to the fuel pumps until the engine stops a= nd then shut down the power to the rest of the system.=A0 In early May, aft= er sitting overnight at an airport away from home, the engine started on on= ly one rotor and then started to run on both rotors after a few seconds.=A0= It did this twice more after being shut down at least overnight.=A0 Finall= y, the engine refused to start at all.=A0 Removing the spark plugs indicate= d a flooded condition, much more evident on rotor one=A0than rotor two.=A0 = Removing the injectors and pressurizing them on my injector test rail, the = primary injector of rotor one leaked fuel at a slow drip and the secondary = injector of rotor two would form a drop of fuel that would evaporate fast e= nough that it didn't actually drip.=A0 The other two injectors remained dry= .=A0 Since all=A0those injectors were most likely the original ones from 19= 86 and had well over 100,000 miles before use in the aircraft, I replaced them with new ones from RC Engineering.=A0 I h= aven't had flooding problems since the replacement.=A0 Apparently, there=A0= was enough fuel that could leak through the injectors and cause flooding ev= en after the shutdown procedure that involved killing the engine by shuttin= g off the fuel pumps.=A0 Probably, heat soaking the firewall forward=A0fuel= lines and fuel after shutdown resulted in pressure buildup and enough fuel= leaking through the worn injectors to cause a problem.=A0 Just my recent e= xperience for what it is worth.=0A>=A0=0A>Steve Boese=0A>RV6A, 1986 13B NA,= RD1A, EC2=0A>=A0 =0A>From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net] on behalf of Charlie England [ceengland@bellsouth.net]=0A>Sent: Su= nday, July 03, 2011 1:59 PM=0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraft=0A>Subject: [F= lyRotary] Re: Leaking injectors?=0A>=0A>=0A>I think that the idea is to shu= t down the pump(s) with the engine running. The injectors will continue to = do their thing, & the engine quits when pressure drops too low to flow thro= ugh the open injectors.=0A>=0A>Charlie=0A>=0A>On 07/03/2011 02:28 PM, Kelly= Troyer wrote: =0A>No !!...........The check valve is located in the inlet = to the pump and will hold regulated=A0pressure=0A>>=0A>>indefinately or unt= il relieved by=A0leaky injectors or the afore mentioned bypass sysrem......= ...=0A>>=A0=0A>>Kelly Troyer=0A>>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>>"13B ROT= ARY"_ Engine=0A>>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A= >>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>From: Ernest Christley =0A>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft = =0A>>Sent: Sunday, July 3, 2011 2:15 PM=0A>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Leakin= g injectors?=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>On 07/02/2011 09:52 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote: =0A>= >Ernest,=0A>>>=A0=A0=A0 Your=A0EFI fuel pumps have a check valve in them an= d will hold regulated=A0pressure=0A>>>for a long time or until leaky inject= ors relieve this pressure..........Short of replacing=0A>>>the injectors th= e=A0fix is to put a pressure relief orifice from the fuel=A0pressure line= =A0to =0A>>>the=A0fuel return line...=0A>>>=0A>>Shouldn't shutting down by = cutting power to the fuel pump relieve the pressure, though?=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>= =0A> --0-1755000934-1309750776=:45390 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I agree Mark !!.........I never had flooding pr= oblems again after installing the by-pass on
my well worn 88= RX7.................On an auto you do not have the ability to shut down th= e
fuel pump as has bee= n suggested plus as Steve noted even that was not enough to 
keep an extremely wo= rn injector from leaking enough to cause  flooding.............&n= bsp;
 
Thanks to all of the= group that shared their ideas and "Real World Experiences"........
This is what se= ts this group apart from some on the net............You guys (and girls)&nb= sp;
freely share = your trials and tribulations whether successful= or failures so your fellow
"Rotorheads" = do not have to reinvent the wheel ........= .......
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From:= Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lan= caironline.net>
Sent:= Sunday, July 3, 2011 9:48 PM
Subje= ct: [FlyRotary] Re: Leaking injectors?

...and another good argument for having a bleed-byp= ass circuit.  ;-)

Mark

On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Steve= n W. Boese <SBoese@uwyo.edu> wrote:
My standard shutdown procedure has always been to cut the power to the= fuel pumps until the engine stops and then shut down the power to the rest= of the system.  In early May, after sitting overnight at an airport a= way from home, the engine started on only one rotor and then started to run= on both rotors after a few seconds.  It did this twice more after bei= ng shut down at least overnight.  Finally, the engine refused to start= at all.  Removing the spark plugs indicated a flooded condition, much= more evident on rotor one than rotor two.  Removing the injector= s and pressurizing them on my injector test rail, the primary injector of r= otor one leaked fuel at a slow drip and the secondary injector of rotor two= would form a drop of fuel that would evaporate fast enough that it didn't = actually drip.  The other two injectors remained dry.  Since all&= nbsp;those injectors were most likely the original ones from 1986 and had well over 100,000 miles before use in the aircraft, I replaced the= m with new ones from RC Engineering.  I haven't had flooding problems = since the replacement.  Apparently, there was enough fuel that co= uld leak through the injectors and cause flooding even after the shutdown p= rocedure that involved killing the engine by shutting off the fuel pumps.&n= bsp; Probably, heat soaking the firewall forward fuel lines and fuel a= fter shutdown resulted in pressure buildup and enough fuel leaking through = the worn injectors to cause a problem.  Just my recent experience for = what it is worth.
 
Steve Boese<= /FONT>
RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2
=
 
= From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of Charlie Englan= d [ceengland@bellsouth.net]Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 1:59 PM
To: Rotary motors in= aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Leaking injectors?
<= BR>
I think that the idea is to shut down the pump(s) with the engine runn= ing. The injectors will continue to do their thing, & the engine quits = when pressure drops too low to flow through the open injectors.

Char= lie

On 07/03/2011 02:28 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:=20
No !!...........The check valve is located in the inlet to the p= ump and will hold regulated pressure
indefinately or until relieved by leaky injectors or the afore me= ntioned bypass sysrem.........
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

= From: Ernest Christley <echri= stley@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 3, 2011 2:15 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Leaking injectors?
On 07/02/2011 09:52 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote:=20
Ernest,
    Your EFI= fuel pumps have a check valve in them and will hold regulated = pressure
for a long time or until leaky injectors relieve this pressure..= ........Short of replacing=
the injectors the fix is to put a pressure relief orifice from the fuel press= ure line  to
the fuel return line...
=

Shouldn't shutting down by cutting power to the fuel pump = relieve the pressure, though?






<= /DIV>
--0-1755000934-1309750776=:45390--