X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-fx0-f42.google.com ([209.85.161.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTPS id 5041539 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 22:49:24 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.42; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by fxe23 with SMTP id 23so4103774fxe.1 for ; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 19:48:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=N9rsK9IgG4h9rGwY3UJInYecM+kQuisQPH7BZmElzSw=; b=gfo48prCvdjHsVdcVHnYHLoRfJ4GXqkIjvmOhvlQuH4xklKY9V5MqC12lg4RpMBgtA S+REo/Ly2ydpUvyJ8zz/zImnrz9aETf44ukjpydEZ3DIQLFcIE3rLld+B0UIwS2/UjXu CNrseMO7qQqIJrjuuqXJC1A1v0BxHl2+7HXpc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.61.72 with SMTP id s8mr8853193fah.6.1309747726122; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 19:48:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.86.206 with HTTP; Sun, 3 Jul 2011 19:48:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 21:48:46 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Leaking injectors? From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd5f2e4f600b404a73567f9 --000e0cd5f2e4f600b404a73567f9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 ...and another good argument for having a bleed-bypass circuit. ;-) Mark On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Steven W. Boese wrote: > My standard shutdown procedure has always been to cut the power to the > fuel pumps until the engine stops and then shut down the power to the rest > of the system. In early May, after sitting overnight at an airport away > from home, the engine started on only one rotor and then started to run on > both rotors after a few seconds. It did this twice more after being shut > down at least overnight. Finally, the engine refused to start at all. > Removing the spark plugs indicated a flooded condition, much more evident on > rotor one than rotor two. Removing the injectors and pressurizing them on > my injector test rail, the primary injector of rotor one leaked fuel at a > slow drip and the secondary injector of rotor two would form a drop of fuel > that would evaporate fast enough that it didn't actually drip. The other > two injectors remained dry. Since all those injectors were most likely the > original ones from 1986 and had well over 100,000 miles before use in the > aircraft, I replaced them with new ones from RC Engineering. I haven't had > flooding problems since the replacement. Apparently, there was enough fuel > that could leak through the injectors and cause flooding even after the > shutdown procedure that involved killing the engine by shutting off the fuel > pumps. Probably, heat soaking the firewall forward fuel lines and fuel > after shutdown resulted in pressure buildup and enough fuel leaking through > the worn injectors to cause a problem. Just my recent experience for what > it is worth. > > > > Steve Boese > RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2 > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf > of Charlie England [ceengland@bellsouth.net] > *Sent:* Sunday, July 03, 2011 1:59 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Leaking injectors? > > I think that the idea is to shut down the pump(s) with the engine > running. The injectors will continue to do their thing, & the engine quits > when pressure drops too low to flow through the open injectors. > > Charlie > > On 07/03/2011 02:28 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > > No !!...........The check valve is located in the inlet to the pump and > will hold regulated pressure > indefinately or until relieved by leaky injectors or the afore mentioned > bypass sysrem......... > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > *From:* Ernest Christley > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Sunday, July 3, 2011 2:15 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Leaking injectors? > > On 07/02/2011 09:52 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > > Ernest, > Your EFI fuel pumps have a check valve in them and will hold > regulated pressure > for a long time or until leaky injectors relieve this > pressure..........Short of replacing > the injectors the fix is to put a pressure relief orifice from the > fuel pressure line to > the fuel return line... > > > Shouldn't shutting down by cutting power to the fuel pump relieve the > pressure, though? > > > > --000e0cd5f2e4f600b404a73567f9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ...and another good argument for having a bleed-bypass circuit. =A0;-)
=
Mark

On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 a= t 9:13 PM, Steven W. Boese <SBoese@uwyo.edu> wrote:

My standard shutdown procedure has always been to cut the power to the f= uel pumps until the engine stops and then shut down the power to the rest o= f the system.=A0 In early May, after sitting overnight at an airport away f= rom home, the engine started on only one rotor and then started to run on both rotors after a few seconds.=A0 I= t did this twice more after being shut down at least overnight.=A0 Finally,= the engine refused to start at all.=A0 Removing the spark plugs indicated = a flooded condition, much more evident on rotor one=A0than rotor two.=A0 Removing the injectors and pressurizing = them on my injector test rail, the primary injector of rotor one leaked fue= l at a slow drip and the secondary injector of rotor two would form a drop = of fuel that would evaporate fast enough that it didn't actually drip.=A0 The other two injectors remained dry.= =A0 Since all=A0those injectors were most likely the original ones from 198= 6 and had well over 100,000 miles before use in the aircraft, I replaced th= em with new ones from RC Engineering.=A0 I haven't had flooding problems since the replacement.=A0 Apparently, there=A0was en= ough fuel that could leak through the injectors and cause flooding even aft= er the shutdown procedure that involved killing the engine by shutting off = the fuel pumps.=A0 Probably, heat soaking the firewall forward=A0fuel lines and fuel after shutdown resulted in pres= sure buildup and enough fuel leaking through the worn injectors to cause a = problem.=A0 Just my recent experience for what it is worth.

=A0

Steve = Boese

RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2

=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on beha= lf of Charlie England [ceengland@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 1:59 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Leaking injectors?

I think that the idea is to shut down the pump(s) with the engine runn= ing. The injectors will continue to do their thing, & the engine quits = when pressure drops too low to flow through the open injectors.

Charlie

On 07/03/2011 02:28 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:
No !!...........The check valve is located in the inlet to the p= ump and will hold regulated=A0pressure
indefinately or until relieved by=A0leaky injectors or the afore menti= oned bypass sysrem.........
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eve= ntually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

Fro= m: Ernest Christley <echristley@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraf= t <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 3, 2011 2= :15 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Lea= king injectors?

On 07/02/2011 09:52 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote:
Ernest,
=A0=A0=A0 Your=A0EFI fuel= pumps have a check valve in them and will hold regulated=A0pressure=
for a long time or until leaky injectors relieve this pressure..= ........Short of replacing
the injectors the=A0fix is to put a pressure relief orifice from the fuel=A0press= ure line=A0 to
the=A0fuel return line...

Shouldn't shutting down by cutting power to the fuel pump relieve the p= ressure, though?




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