X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTP id 5041407 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 19:02:18 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.206.42; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-ma04.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p63N1eZf025456 for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2011 19:01:40 -0400 Received: from Lehanover@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.11d3.150dc5f (55732) for ; Sun, 3 Jul 2011 19:01:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from magic-d27.mail.aol.com (magic-d27.mail.aol.com [172.19.146.161]) by cia-md03.mx.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMD037-d9b44e10f4d128d; Sun, 03 Jul 2011 19:01:37 -0400 From: Lehanover@aol.com Message-ID: <1c7cc1.5f854073.3b424ed1@aol.com> Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 19:01:37 EDT Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: VNE / Flutter Testing To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1c7cc1.5f854073.3b424ed1_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 5004 X-AOL-IP: 173.88.24.45 X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Lehanover@aol.com --part1_1c7cc1.5f854073.3b424ed1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That is a slightly different animal than a flap or aileron flutter. More like the trailing end of a flag that flutters continuously. Flutter is a very high speed oscillation of usually an elevator or aileron. After a paint job all moveable surfaces should be re-balanced to perfection or as close to that as is possible. No play caused by wear in any hinges is allowed. Use spherical rod ends were possible rather than bushings. Design in the longest throws allowed by space. This to reduce the effect of wear in rod ends. Add counter balance weights close to control horns. Build moveable surfaces to be torsionally rigid. Do flutter tests on the ground by exciting suspect parts with transducers. A fluttering aileron can take off a wing like it hit a tree. Lynn E. Hanover In a message dated 7/3/2011 5:47:13 P.M. Paraguay Standard Time, thomasmann51@gmail.com writes: This is what flutter looks like in a canard. _www.cozybuilders.org/Movies/Varieze_Canard_Flutter_RR-Small.wmv_ (http://www.cozybuilders.org/Movies/Varieze_Canard_Flutter_RR-Small.wmv) On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Kelly Troyer <_keltro@att.net_ (mailto:keltro@att.net) > wrote: Ernest, The procedure is to test with many steps increasing speed in small increments always ready to reduce throttle and increase AOA at the slightest indication of flutter.............. Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo From: Ernest Christley <_echristley@att.net_ (mailto:echristley@att.net) > To: Rotary motors in aircraft <_flyrotary@lancaironline.net_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) > Sent: Sunday, July 3, 2011 2:11 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: GSL393/74028 Fuel Pump Replacement/Fuel Leak On 07/02/2011 11:12 AM, Thomas Mann wrote: I know that the plans built composite aircraft (Rutan designs and derivatives) can have a Vne that can be higher or lower than the design specs as a direct result of workmanship. Each (in my case a Long-EZ) aircraft is a one-off and only flight testing can determine the TRUE V-speeds. I think that is less of a factor in the RV world but a factor just the same. Flutter is really ugly. How is the Vne testing performed? I can't think of anything other than pushing the throttle to the firewall and waiting to see what happens, but that sounds awful dangerous to me. --part1_1c7cc1.5f854073.3b424ed1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That is a slightly different animal than a flap or aileron flutter.= More=20 like the trailing end of a flag that flutters continuously.
 
Flutter is a very high speed oscillation of usually an elevator or ai= leron.=20
After a paint job all moveable surfaces should be re-balanced to perf= ection=20 or as close to that as is possible. No play caused by wear in any hinges= is=20 allowed. Use spherical rod ends were possible rather than bushings. Design= in=20 the longest throws allowed by space. This to reduce the effect of wear in= rod=20 ends. Add counter balance weights close to control horns. Build moveable= =20 surfaces to be torsionally rigid.
 
Do flutter tests on the ground by exciting suspect parts with transdu= cers.=20 A fluttering aileron can take off a wing like it hit a tree.
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
 
 
In a message dated 7/3/2011 5:47:13 P.M. Paraguay Standard Time,=20 thomasmann51@gmail.com writes:
This is=20 what flutter looks like in a canard. =20



On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Ernest,
   The procedure is to test with many steps incre= asing=20 speed in small increments always ready
to reduce throttle and increase AOA at= the=20 slightest indication of flutter..............
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate= /Oil=20 Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Ernest=20 Christley <echristley@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in ai= rcraft <flyrotary@lancai= ronline.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 3, 2011 2:11=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRot= ary] Re:=20 GSL393/74028 Fuel Pump Replacement/Fuel Leak

On 07/02/2011 11:12 AM, Thomas Mann wrote:=20
I know that the plans built composite aircraft (Rutan designs= and=20 derivatives) can have a Vne that can be higher or lower than the des= ign=20 specs as a direct result of workmanship. Each (in my case a Long-EZ)= =20 aircraft is a one-off and only flight testing can determine the TRUE= =20 V-speeds.
I think that is less of a factor in the RV world but a factor= just=20 the same.
Flutter is really ugly.
How is the Vne= testing=20 performed?  I can't think of anything other than pushing the thro= ttle=20 to the firewall and waiting to see what happens, but that sounds awful= =20 dangerous to=20 me.



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