X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost03.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.103] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4969548 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 06 May 2011 22:15:55 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.217.103; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-98-85-145-79.mco.bellsouth.net[98.85.145.79]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc03) with SMTP id <20110507021518H0300os9pbe>; Sat, 7 May 2011 02:15:19 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [98.85.145.79] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: vibration isolators/motor mounts Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 22:16:56 -0400 Message-ID: <8754E0B757B8447DBC91AFEA988DDC09@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01CC0C3B.4FE89C70" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcwMQa6u414q0gxpRMqH6emdlbiB8AAGbxMw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CC0C3B.4FE89C70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian, =20 I am using a set of the Mcmaster Carr mounts on my plane and I sold my = set of dynafocal mount rubber because I wouldn=92t need them. There is all = the difference in the world in the two types of mounts. If you consider the fact that the entire engine and prop assembly is cantilevered out off of = the dynafocal mount and must carry 5 or 6 Gs you will begin to understand = why there is such a difference in price. =20 I shudder to think how many thousands of lbs each of those rubber = bushings has to withstand! They are damn tough! =20 Bill B =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of bktrub@aol.com Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 7:02 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: vibration isolators/motor mounts =20 Ok, so those don't fit in the cups of the dynafocal mounts. Maybe there = is a way to make some sort of adapter that fits into the cups on the = dynafocal in order to use the Mcmaster-Carr mounts. It might be worth it due to the = price difference- about $250-$300 for the full on aircraft rubber pieces = versus $23.80 for the Mcmaster- Carr pieces. =20 Brian Trubee =20 -----Original Message----- From: Kelly Troyer To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 2:06 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: vibration isolators/motor mounts Brian, I checked out all of McMaster Carr's offerings and non will fit or replace the Dynafocal type mounts..........I know that the bottom plate type of = mount does use these type of cushion/isolators............ =20 Thanks, =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =20 =20 _____ =20 From: " bktrub@aol.com" < = bktrub@aol.com> To: Rotary motors in aircraft < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 3:42:20 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] vibration isolators/motor mounts I'm telling you- go to McMaster- Carr. They have Barry shock mounts that = are just like the ones on our aircraft, except the price is a little less- = $5.95 each. That's what I used on my plane, and they work great.=20 =20 Looky here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/117/1363/=3Dc6vjlj =20 Bottom of the page- 6309K35A- I used the 240 lb. Version.=20 =20 Brian Trubee =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Marc Wiese < cardmarc@charter.net> To: Rotary motors in aircraft < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 12:25 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) Kelly, My Bad. Been working on a friends twin commanche too much. The motor = mount is from a Cardinal RG nose retract and uses the Lyc IO360 A1B6 200 hp = angle valve cylinders. So it=92s a type 1. Maybe we can use it to test fit up that new back/front plate!! BTW, those mm shock donuts are costly for most of these systems. We got = to find cheaper compliant donuts. Marc =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [ mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 1:24 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) =20 Marc, The Mistral backplate is for a Dynafocal Type 1 , 30 degree mount ring=20 which is standard for most Lycoming 0-320 & all 0 & I0-360 engines (that = I=20 am aware of))..............The Dynafocal Type 2 , 18 degree mount ring = was designed for a specific 0-320 engine installed in the Twin Comanche with an extra 2.5 inch extended prop hub..............This put the engine CG ahead=20 the 30 degree mount focal point of approx 14.25 inches so the 18 degree mount was designed to again put the engine CG slightly behind the 18 = degree focal point.............If your Cardinal has the type 2 , 18 degree = mount then it=20 probably has a 0-320 with the extra pop hub length..........If not maybe Cessna got a good deal on this particular 0-320 engine model back = then.........If by chance your Cardinal has an 0-360 then all bets are off as I haven't = heard of a 0-360 model with the Type 2 , 18 degree mount............<:) =20 As for the 93-95 13BREW front side plate Bryan may have found us an unserviceable one............We will see............As many of these = engnes that have been over-heated , over-boosted and over-reved we should be able to = come up with a junk one............. =20 Thanks Marc, =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =20 =20 _____ =20 From: Marc Wiese < cardmarc@charter.net> To: keltro@att.net Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 8:40:02 PM Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) Kelly, I also have a type II dynafocal engine mount (from a Cardinal RG!)=85. Marc=20 =20 From: Marc Wiese [ mailto:cardmarc@charter.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 8:37 PM To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft'; ' = keltro@att.net' Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) =20 I may have one of those 13Brew =93front plates=94, but it is = =93useable=94. I too would like a dynafocal type II mount=85..for both of my 13Brews = and the 20B=85 Marc =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [ mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 6:09 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) =20 To The Rotary Group, Yes I know I am a troublemaker (too much computer time available = with my day job) and some of you are probably sick of all my posts !!.............."But" with that being said one of our group is seriously considering the development of a "Mistral" type back-plate to allow the use of a standard "Lycoming" "Dynafocal type 1" engine mount ring that will be a virtual "Bolt-on" to the 93-95 13BREW , Cosmo 13B & 20B and the Renesis 13B Rotarys.............Several builders and potentials have indicated they would be interested in such a back-plate (including me)............I = have one of the few "Mistral" back-plates that ended up in the hands of experimenters (waited 2 years for it)..........It is severely = over engineered for our use (and overpriced) and has many features we do not need........... =20 If you have followed "Back-plate" string of posts recently you know = that Jarrett Johnson one our group with aspirations to install a Cosmo 20B in his project started the discussion first about an developing an intake manifold for 13B & 20B Rotarys (which needs to be done also) then I jumped in and said that a common = engine mount design might also be needed and if you have been reading the posts lately a lot of info has been kicked = around about the various Rotarys and what it will take to "Marry" the "Mistral" back-plate with a "RX8 "Renesis" water-pump (with the magic of digital scanning & CAD) to design=20 such a back-plate......... =20 Those that have been on the Rotary forum for several years may = remember Jarrett posting his trials and tribulations in building a huge CAM mill (at home).............He is a commercial = designer with the talent and equipment (including foundry) to pull this off............I have offered my "Mistral" back-plate to be scanned (He trying to find someone here in Okla to do the job) and I also have a "Renesis" front cover to = scan............What we really need now is a 93-95 13BREW front side housing (unusable condition preferred as long as front side is = undamaged) to put in his hands as this is what the back-plate will bolt to..............If someone in the group has an unusable 93-95 13BREW front side housing they will donate I will pay to have it shipped to Jarrett..............You may contact me off the = forum if you would prefer..........I have no horse in this race I would just like to see such a product be made available to the group.......... =20 keltro@att.net =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =20 =20 _____ =20 From: Kelly Troyer < keltro@att.net> To: Rotary motors in aircraft < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 11:45:09 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate Jarrett, =20 Will be a good idea to scan both the Mistral and Renesis housings.............You really need=20 a 93-95 13BREW (preferably) or Cosmo 20B front housing to scan.............Most of my 13B engines are 86-91.............My Cosmo 13B is adaptable but lacks some = of the machined bolt and stud pads of the 13BREW, Renesis or Cosmo 20B front side housing = which you need to make allowances for on the redesigned back-plate if you want it to = fit all three versions of these engines..................Throw this out to the group and see if someone has a 1993-95 13BREW front side hsg (need not be usable) they would donate or lend to = the project......... =20 You really need this front side housing in front of you......... Even with all the scans nothing=20 beats having the actual hardware............IMHO =20 Best Regards, =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =20 =20 _____ =20 From: H & J Johnson < = hjjohnson@sasktel.net> To: Rotary motors in aircraft < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 10:43:03 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate Evening Kelly, so just thought I'd send a note w/ an update. I did find = a fella in Tulsa who has access to a laser scanner. He's getting me some pricing on what it would cost to get the job done. I'm thinking it might be a = good idea to get both the Mistral housing as well as a Renisis Front Cover scanned?=20 I'd like to get an Iron [preferably the side that mates to the front = cover] scanned as well but don't know if you've got one handy [as in, not 'in' = an engine]. I could always=20 do it here in time but that might take a bit before I get my hands on = one that is not in an engine. =20 I'll keep you posted as this goes and see where we get. Jarrett Johnson=20 www.innovention-tech.com=20 -- Homepage: = http://www.flyrotary.com/ ; Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CC0C3B.4FE89C70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Brian,

 

I am using a set of the Mcmaster = Carr mounts on my plane and I sold my set of dynafocal mount rubber because I = wouldn’t need them.=A0 There is all the difference in the world in the two types = of mounts.=A0 If you consider the fact that the entire engine and prop = assembly is cantilevered out off of the dynafocal mount and must carry 5 or 6 Gs you = will begin to understand why there is such a difference in = price.

 

I shudder to think how many = thousands of lbs each of those rubber bushings has to withstand!=A0 They are damn = tough!

 

Bill B

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of bktrub@aol.com
Sent: Friday, May 06, = 2011 7:02 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = vibration isolators/motor mounts

 

Ok, so those don't fit in the cups = of the dynafocal mounts. Maybe there is a way to make some sort of adapter that = fits into the cups on the dynafocal in order to use the Mcmaster-Carr mounts. = It might be worth it due to the price difference- about $250-$300 for the = full on aircraft rubber pieces versus $23.80 for the Mcmaster- Carr = pieces.

 

=

Brian Trubee

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 2:06 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: vibration isolators/motor = mounts

Brian,

=

   I checked out all of McMaster Carr's offerings and non will fit or replace = the

Dynafocal type mounts..........I = know that the bottom plate type of mount = does

use these type of cushion/isolators............

 

=

Thanks,
 

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE = DELTA JD2" = (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 = Turbo

 

=

 

=

From: "bktrub@aol.com" <bktrub@aol.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net&= gt;
Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 = 3:42:20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = vibration isolators/motor mounts

I'm telling you- go to McMaster- = Carr. They have Barry shock mounts that are just like the ones on our = aircraft, except the price is a little less- $5.95 each. That's what I used on my = plane, and they work great.

 

=

 

=

Bottom of the page- 6309K35A- I = used the 240 lb. Version.

 

=

Brian = Trubee


 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Wiese <cardmarc@charter.net>
= To: Rotary motors in = aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net&= gt;
Sent: Fri, May 6, 2011 12:25 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd = Needed)

Kelly,<= /font>

My Bad. Been = working on a friends twin commanche too much. The motor mount is from a Cardinal = RG nose retract and uses the Lyc IO360 A1B6 200 hp angle valve cylinders. = So it’s a type 1.

Maybe we can = use it to test fit up that new back/front plate!!

BTW, those mm = shock donuts are costly for most of these systems. We got to find cheaper = compliant donuts.

Marc

 <= /font>

From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net= ] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Friday, May 06, = 2011 1:24 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed)

 

=

Marc,

      = ; The Mistral backplate is for a Dynafocal Type 1 , 30 degree mount = ring

which is standard for = most Lycoming 0-320 & all 0 & I0-360 engines (that I =

am aware of))..............The = Dynafocal Type 2 , 18 degree mount ring was

designed for a specific 0-320 = engine installed in the Twin Comanche with

an extra 2.5 inch extended prop hub..............This put the engine CG ahead

the 30 degree mount focal = point  of approx 14.25 inches so the 18 degree

mount was designed to again put = the engine CG slightly behind the 18 degree

focal point.............If your = Cardinal has the type 2 , 18 degree  mount then it

probably has a 0-320 with the = extra pop hub length..........If not maybe Cessna

got a good deal on this particular = 0-320 engine model back then.........If by

chance your Cardinal has an 0-360 = then all bets are off as I haven't heard

of a 0-360 model with the Type 2 , = 18 degree mount............<:)

 

     As for = the 93-95 13BREW front side plate Bryan may have found us an

unserviceable one............We = will see............As many of these engnes that

have been over-heated , = over-boosted and over-reved we should be able to

come up with a junk = one.............

 

Thanks Marc,

 

 Kelly Troyer
"DYKE = DELTA JD2" = (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 = Turbo

 

 

From: Marc Wiese <cardmarc@charter.net>
To: keltro@att.net
Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 = 8:40:02 PM
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] = Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed)

Kelly,<= /font>

I also have a = type II dynafocal engine mount (from a Cardinal RG!)….

Marc =

 <= /font>

From: Marc Wiese [mailto:cardmarc@charter.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 05, = 2011 8:37 PM
To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft'; 'keltro@att.net'
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] = Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed)

 

=

I may have = one of those 13Brew “front plates”, but it is = “useable”.

I too would = like a dynafocal type II mount…..for both of my 13Brews and the = 20B…

Marc

 <= /font>

From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net= ] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, = 2011 6:09 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed)

 

=

To The Rotary = Group,

     Yes I = know I am a troublemaker (too much computer time available with my day job) = and some of you are probably sick of all my posts !!.............."But" = with that being said one of our group is seriously considering the = development of a "Mistral" type

back-plate to allow the use of a = standard "Lycoming" "Dynafocal type 1" engine mount ring that = will be a virtual "Bolt-on" to the

93-95 13BREW , Cosmo 13B = & 20B and the Renesis 13B Rotarys.............Several builders and potentials = have indicated they

would be interested in such a = back-plate (including me)............I have one of the few "Mistral" = back-plates that ended up in the

hands of experimenters (waited 2 = years for it)..........It is severely over engineered for our use (and = overpriced) and has many

features we do not = need...........

 

    If you have = followed "Back-plate" string of posts recently you know that Jarrett = Johnson one our group with aspirations to

install a Cosmo 20B in his project started the discussion first about an developing an intake manifold = for 13B & 20B Rotarys

(which needs to be done also) = then I jumped in and said that a common engine mount design might also be = needed and if

you have been reading the posts = lately a lot of info has been kicked around about the = various Rotarys and what it will take to "Marry" the "Mistral" back-plate with a "RX8 "Renesis" water-pump (with the = magic of digital scanning & CAD) to design

such a = back-plate.........

 

     Those = that have been on the Rotary forum for several years may remember Jarrett posting = his trials and tribulations in

building a huge CAM mill (at home).............He is a commercial designer with the talent = and equipment (including foundry)

to pull this off............I have offered my "Mistral" back-plate to be scanned (He trying to = find someone here in Okla to do

the  job) and I also have a "Renesis" front cover to scan............What we really need = now is a 93-95 13BREW front side

housing (unusable condition = preferred as long as front side is undamaged) to put in his hands as this is what the back-plate

will bolt to..............If = someone in the group has an unusable 93-95 13BREW front side housing they will = donate I will pay

to have it shipped to Jarrett..............You may contact me off the forum if you would prefer..........I have no horse in this race

I would just like to see such a = product be made available to the group..........

 

    

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE = DELTA JD2" = (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 = Turbo

 

 

From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= ;
Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 = 11:45:09 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate

Jarrett,

 

    Will be a good = idea to scan both the Mistral and Renesis housings.............You really need =

a 93-95 13BREW (preferably) = or Cosmo 20B front housing to scan.............Most of my 13B

engines are 86-91.............My Cosmo 13B is adaptable = but lacks some of the machined bolt

and stud pads of the 13BREW, Renesis or Cosmo 20B front side housing which you = need

to make allowances for on the = redesigned back-plate if you want it to fit all three versions = of

these = engines..................Throw this out to the group and see if someone has a 1993-95

13BREW front side hsg (need not be usable) they would donate or lend to the = project.........

 

   You really need this = front side housing in front of you......... Even with all the scans nothing =

beats having the actual hardware............IMHO

 

Best Regards,

 

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE = DELTA JD2" = (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 = Turbo

 

 

From: H & J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= ;
Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 = 10:43:03 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate

Evening Kelly, so just thought I'd = send a note w/ an update. I did find a fella in Tulsa who has access to a laser scanner. He's getting me some = pricing

on what it would cost to get the = job done. I'm thinking it might be a good idea to get both the Mistral = housing as well as a Renisis Front Cover scanned?

I'd like to get an Iron [preferably the side that mates to the front = cover] scanned as well but don't know if you've got one handy [as in, not 'in' an engine]. = I could always

do it here in time but that might = take a bit before I get my hands on one that is not in an = engine.

 

=

I'll keep you posted as this goes = and see where we get.

Jarrett Johnson
www.innovention-tech.com = 

--    Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/   ; Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Lis=
t.html
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