X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost06.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.56] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4967955 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 05 May 2011 13:49:10 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.115.11.56; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-98-85-145-79.mco.bellsouth.net[98.85.145.79]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc06) with SMTP id <20110505174833H0600e8jp1e>; Thu, 5 May 2011 17:48:34 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [98.85.145.79] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 13:50:02 -0400 Message-ID: <30A2CE46430945E8ABE24C8992728C0D@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01CC0B2B.55B58340" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcwLO0EYy+UQsDYAQ/C8VxMbWgWBAAAERYOQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CC0B2B.55B58340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't forget the oil pan helps some to hold the whole thing together for those of us who don't have the engine sitting on the mounting plate. A thinner, "defoaming" plate might be a good idea if you are looking for something to add stiffness to the engine stack using the Mistral design. Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of H & J Johnson Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 11:43 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) The tension bolts held everything in the Mistral design. That is my starting point however its not to say that there couldn't/wouldn't be some added hardware across the top to help w/ rotational stiffness as well as bending loads if it is warrented. I could see a such an attachement doing several things for the install, from torsional stiffness [takes out some of the torque loads that are currently held by the clamp force from one housing to the next], as well as bending stiffness [hard landing load downwards] as well as even interfacing w/ an intake system to lend support there as well. At this point its all very much in the air [pun intended]. I will end up doing lots of modeling, some FEA and possibly going as far as getting an engineer to evaluate the whole thing before we're done. :) Jarrett Johnson www.innovention-tech.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Bryan Winberry Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011 9:30 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) > Kelly or anyone else familiar, > > Maybe I missed it, but what did Mistral do, if anything, to > support the > engine forward of the mounting tabs? Or do the front plate and > the tension > bolts bear all the load of the engine, re-drive and prop? > > Bryan > > > > _____ > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > Behalf Of Bryan Winberry > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 11:22 AM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) > > > > Just got off the phone with Mazmart. They may have one! Will > know for sure > this afternoon. > > Bryan > > > > _____ > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > Behalf Of Kelly Troyer > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 10:42 AM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) > > > > Bryan, > > > > That would be very helpful..................If you can find > one let me > know and I will > > make arrangements with Jarrett about where he will want it sent to > avoidcustoms > > and duties as he is in Saskatchewan, Canada............. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Kelly Troyer > "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) > > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > > > > > _____ > > From: Bryan Winberry > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 9:02:32 AM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) > > If Mazmart has one lying around, I could pick it up. I live in > the area. > > Bryan > > > > _____ > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > Behalf Of Kelly Troyer > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 7:09 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) > > > > To The Rotary Group, > > Yes I know I am a troublemaker (too much computer time > available with > my day job) and some of you are probably sick of all my posts > !!.............."But" with that being said one of our group is > seriouslyconsidering the development of a "Mistral" type > > back-plate to allow the use of a standard "Lycoming" "Dynafocal > type 1" > engine mount ring that will be a virtual "Bolt-on" to the > > 93-95 13BREW , Cosmo 13B & 20B and the Renesis 13B > Rotarys.............Several builders and potentials have indicated > they > would be interested in such a back-plate (including > me)............I have > one of the few "Mistral" back-plates that ended up in the > > hands of experimenters (waited 2 years for it)..........It is > severely over > engineered for our use (and overpriced) and has many > > features we do not need........... > > > > If you have followed "Back-plate" string of posts recently you > know that > Jarrett Johnson one our group with aspirations to > > install a Cosmo 20B in his project started the discussion first > about an > developing an intake manifold for 13B & 20B Rotarys > > (which needs to be done also) then I jumped in and said that a > common engine > mount design might also be needed and if > > you have been reading the posts lately a lot of info has been > kicked around > about the various Rotarys and what it will take to "Marry" the > "Mistral"back-plate with a "RX8 "Renesis" water-pump (with the > magic of digital > scanning & CAD) to design > > such a back-plate......... > > > > Those that have been on the Rotary forum for several years > may remember > Jarrett posting his trials and tribulations in > > building a huge CAM mill (at home).............He is a commercial > designerwith the talent and equipment (including foundry) > > to pull this off............I have offered my "Mistral" back-plate > to be > scanned (He trying to find someone here in Okla to do > > the job) and I also have a "Renesis" front cover to > scan............What we > really need now is a 93-95 13BREW front side > > housing (unusable condition preferred as long as front side is > undamaged) to > put in his hands as this is what the back-plate > > will bolt to..............If someone in the group has an unusable > 93-95 > 13BREW front side housing they will donate I will pay > > to have it shipped to Jarrett..............You may contact me off > the forum > if you would prefer..........I have no horse in this race > > I would just like to see such a product be made available to the > group.......... > > > > keltro@att.net > > > > Kelly Troyer > "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) > > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > > > > > _____ > > From: Kelly Troyer > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 11:45:09 PM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate > > Jarrett, > > > > Will be a good idea to scan both the Mistral and Renesis > housings.............You really need > > a 93-95 13BREW (preferably) or Cosmo 20B front housing to > scan.............Most of my 13B > > engines are 86-91.............My Cosmo 13B is adaptable but lacks > some of > the machined bolt > > and stud pads of the 13BREW, Renesis or Cosmo 20B front side > housing which > you need > > to make allowances for on the redesigned back-plate if you want it > to fit > all three versions of > > these engines..................Throw this out to the group and see if > someone has a 1993-95 > > 13BREW front side hsg (need not be usable) they would donate or > lend to the > project......... > > > > You really need this front side housing in front of > you......... Even > with all the scans nothing > > beats having the actual hardware............IMHO > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Kelly Troyer > "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) > > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > > > > > _____ > > From: H & J Johnson > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 10:43:03 PM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate > > Evening Kelly, so just thought I'd send a note w/ an update. I did > find a > fella in Tulsa who has access to a laser scanner. He's getting me some > pricing > > on what it would cost to get the job done. I'm thinking it might > be a good > idea to get both the Mistral housing as well as a Renisis Front Cover > scanned? > > I'd like to get an Iron [preferably the side that mates to the > front cover] > scanned as well but don't know if you've got one handy [as in, not > 'in' an > engine]. I could always > > do it here in time but that might take a bit before I get my hands > on one > that is not in an engine. > > > > I'll keep you posted as this goes and see where we get. > > Jarrett Johnson > www.innovention-tech.com > > -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CC0B2B.55B58340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Don’t forget the oil pan = helps some to hold the whole thing together for those of us who don’t have = the engine sitting on the mounting plate.  A thinner, = “defoaming” plate might be a good idea if you are looking for something to add = stiffness to the engine stack using the Mistral design.

 

Bill B

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of H & J Johnson
Sent: Thursday, May 05, = 2011 11:43 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed)

 

The tension bolts held everything in the Mistral design. =

That is my starting point however its not to say that there couldn't/wouldn't be = some added

hardware across the top to help w/ rotational stiffness as well as bending loads = if it is warrented. I could see a such an attachement doing several = things

for the install, from torsional stiffness [takes out some of the torque loads = that are currently held by the clamp force from one housing to the next], as = well

as bending stiffness [hard landing load downwards] as well as even = interfacing w/ an intake system to lend support there as well.  At this point its = all

very much in the air [pun intended]. I will end up doing lots = of modeling, some FEA and possibly going as far as getting an engineer to evaluate the = whole

thing before we're done. :)

Jarrett Johnson
www.innovention-tech.com

----- Original Message = -----

From: = Bryan Winberry <bryanwinberry@bellsouth.net>

Date: = Thursday, May 5, 2011 9:30 am

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed)

> Kelly or anyone else familiar,
>
> Maybe I missed it, but what did Mistral do, if anything, to
> support the
> engine forward of the mounting tabs?  Or do the front plate = and
> the tension
> bolts bear all the load of the engine, re-drive and prop?
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
>  _____ 
>
> From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> Behalf Of Bryan Winberry
> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 11:22 AM
> To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) =
>
>
>
> Just got off the phone with Mazmart.  They may have one!  = Will
> know for sure
> this afternoon.
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
>  _____ 
>
> From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 10:42 AM
> To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) =
>
>
>
> Bryan,
>
>
>
>    That would be very helpful..................If = you can find
> one let me
> know and I will
>
> make arrangements with Jarrett about where he will want it sent to =
> avoidcustoms
>
> and duties as he is in Saskatchewan, Canada.............
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Kelly Troyer
> "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
>
> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
>
> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
>
>
>
>
>
>  _____ 
>
> From: Bryan Winberry <bryanwinberry@bellsouth.net>
> To: Rotary motors in = aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Thu, May 5, 2011 9:02:32 AM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) =
>
> If Mazmart has one lying around, I could pick it up.  I live = in
> the area.
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
>  _____ 
>
> From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 7:09 PM
> To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate (93-95 Front Side Hsd Needed) =
>
>
>
> To The Rotary Group,
>
>     Yes I know I am a troublemaker (too much = computer time
> available with
> my day job) and some of you are probably sick of all my posts
> !!.............."But" with that being said one of our = group is
> seriouslyconsidering the development of a "Mistral" type =
>
> back-plate to allow the use of a standard "Lycoming" "Dynafocal
> type 1"
> engine mount ring that will be a virtual "Bolt-on" to the =
>
> 93-95 13BREW , Cosmo 13B & 20B and the Renesis 13B
> Rotarys.............Several builders and potentials have indicated =
> they
> would be interested in such a back-plate (including
> me)............I have
> one of the few "Mistral" back-plates that ended up in the =
>
> hands of experimenters (waited 2 years for it)..........It is
> severely over
> engineered for our use (and overpriced) and has many
>
> features we do not need...........
>
>
>
>    If you have followed "Back-plate" = string of posts recently you
> know that
> Jarrett Johnson one our group with aspirations to
>
> install a Cosmo 20B in his project started the discussion first =
> about an
> developing an intake manifold for 13B & 20B Rotarys
>
> (which needs to be done also) then I jumped in and said that a
> common engine
> mount design might also be needed and if
>
> you have been reading the posts lately a lot of info has been
> kicked around
> about the various Rotarys and what it will take to = "Marry" the
> "Mistral"back-plate with a "RX8 "Renesis" water-pump (with the
> magic of digital
> scanning & CAD) to design
>
> such a back-plate.........
>
>
>
>     Those that have been on the Rotary forum = for several years
> may remember
> Jarrett posting his trials and tribulations in
>
> building a huge CAM mill (at home).............He is a commercial =
> designerwith the talent and equipment (including foundry)
>
> to pull this off............I have offered my "Mistral" back-plate
> to be
> scanned (He trying to find someone here in Okla to do
>
> the  job) and I also have a "Renesis" front cover to =
> scan............What we
> really need now is a 93-95 13BREW front side
>
> housing (unusable condition preferred as long as front side is
> undamaged) to
> put in his hands as this is what the back-plate
>
> will bolt to..............If someone in the group has an unusable =
> 93-95
> 13BREW front side housing they will donate I will pay
>
> to have it shipped to Jarrett..............You may contact me off =
> the forum
> if you would prefer..........I have no horse in this race
>
> I would just like to see such a product be made available to the =
> group..........
>
>
>
> keltro@att.net
>
>   
>
> Kelly Troyer
> "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
>
> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
>
> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
>
>
>
>
>
>  _____ 
>
> From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
> To: Rotary motors in = aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 11:45:09 PM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate
>
> Jarrett,
>
>
>
>    Will be a good idea to scan both the Mistral and = Renesis
> housings.............You really need
>
> a 93-95 13BREW (preferably) or Cosmo 20B front housing to
> scan.............Most of my 13B
>
> engines are 86-91.............My Cosmo 13B is adaptable but lacks =
> some of
> the machined bolt
>
> and stud pads of the 13BREW, Renesis or Cosmo 20B front side
> housing which
> you need
>
> to make allowances for on the redesigned back-plate if you want it =
> to fit
> all three versions of
>
> these engines..................Throw this out to the group and see = if
> someone has a 1993-95
>
> 13BREW front side hsg (need not be usable) they would donate or =
> lend to the
> project.........
>
>
>
>   You really need this front side housing in front of =
> you......... Even
> with all the scans nothing
>
> beats having the actual hardware............IMHO
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
> Kelly Troyer
> "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
>
> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
>
> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
>
>
>
>
>
>  _____ 
>
> From: H & J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
> To: Rotary motors in = aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 10:43:03 PM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Back-plate
>
> Evening Kelly, so just thought I'd send a note w/ an update. I did =
> find a
> fella in Tulsa who has access to a laser scanner. He's getting me some
> pricing
>
> on what it would cost to get the job done. I'm thinking it might =
> be a good
> idea to get both the Mistral housing as well as a Renisis Front = Cover
> scanned?
>
> I'd like to get an Iron [preferably the side that mates to the
> front cover]
> scanned as well but don't know if you've got one handy [as in, not =
> 'in' an
> engine]. I could always
>
> do it here in time but that might take a bit before I get my hands =
> on one
> that is not in an engine.
>
>
>
> I'll keep you posted as this goes and see where we get.
>
> Jarrett Johnson
> www.innovention-tech.com = <http://www.innovention-tech.com/> 
>
> --    Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/    Archive and UnSub:
> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> 

--

Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

Archive and UnSub:   =
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