X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from qmta09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.96] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4963687 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 01 May 2011 21:16:27 -0400 Received-SPF: error receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.62.96; envelope-from=gregw@onestopdesign.biz Received: from omta20.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.71]) by qmta09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id eR6Z1g0041YDfWL59RFuAT; Mon, 02 May 2011 01:15:54 +0000 Received: from gregiv ([24.6.73.102]) by omta20.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id eRFr1g00y2CQjog3gRFtsf; Mon, 02 May 2011 01:15:54 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Greg Ward" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Fw: [LML] Re: Beware update Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 18:25:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0397_01CC082D.1C368F70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6090 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0397_01CC082D.1C368F70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am forwarding this to our group, if it hasn't already been done so. = We also need to be concerned about this situation. I would suggest that = anybody with any infleuence may want to put his 2C into it. Greg Ward Lancair Legacy 20b, N178RG, still in progress ----- Original Message -----=20 From: vtailjeff@aol.com=20 To: lml@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:00 AM Subject: [LML] Re: Beware update As most of you on the list know we had an incident in April here in St. = Louis where one of our own was "stopped" by local police based on a = "tip" from Customs and Border Patrol. Here is an update to that story: Bob Rickard (who was the individual stopped) and I have received more = emails from other Lancair pilots who have been stopped as well based on = "tips" from CBP. So this is not an isolated incident. I contacted AOPA, = my congressman's staff, and CBP themselves. AOPA's Craig Spence is = presently working this issue on our behalf. He already had ascheduled = meeting with CBP on Wednesday, so he brought this subject up. He said = that CBP wants to be the new "skycop". He conveyed our concerns to them = --targeting GA for poloce searches and the issue of the fax that is sent = to police agencies justifying detaining pilots. Mr. Spence told them = that the fax has errors on it and agreed to help them correct those. On = the issue of tracking GA flights and detaining pilots, Mr. Spence said = the CBP is not budging. He believes we need to take this to = Congressional leaders --he said we are in for a long battle with CBP.=20 The day after Mr. Spence's meeting I received two phone calls from CBP = (so it is true about smelly stuff rolling downhill). The first call was = from "Carlos" at CBP HQ. Carlos works in Gen. Mike Kostelnik's office in = DC. Kostelnik, a retired AF two star, is the head of the CBP Air and = Marine Center. Carlos wanted to know what our concerns were and I = repeated that we did not like getting stopped based on bogus = information. He wanted to know how I was certain CBP was behind these = stops (he implied they had nothing to do with it) and I said it was from = information from the local police and the fax AMOC sent to them. (Ah, = the truth and evidence is so great) He was pretty agitated during our = conversation and said if we were stopped and the police questioned us = then we should tell them what they wanted to know. I said I disagreed = (Fifth Amendment) . I gave him the specifics of Bobaloos stop two weeks = ago and he agreed to look into it. I said that in the best light their = intell is either unvetted or their analyis is poor. He disagreed (of = course) and gave many other reasons (all bogus) as to why their intel = was good. He said it could have been because the aircraft was a prior = drug aircraft. I replied that would be pretty difficult since I built = it, flew it and then sold it to Col. Rickard. I said that in the worst = light --their folks are making up stories to get the local police to = stop GA pilots--for the crime of ....flying. Of course he about blew a = gasket. I asked him to tell me where CBP got this information about Bob = carrying a fugitive. He replied that is a matter of national security = and could not tell me.=20 A couple of hours later I receive a phone call from Tony C. at the CBP = AMOC in Riverside, CA asking again about my concerns. Again I expressed = the same and while he was very polite and cordial and appears to be a = dedicated public servant doing a tough job I reiterated that law abiding = GA pilots do not enjoy getting stopped by law enforcement based on = seemingly bogus information. Tony said they are just trying to "put = their eyes on people"--meaning us. I remarked that there has to be a = better way of doing that than surrounding a pilot with 6 police cars and = ten officers. He said they have tough job catching bad guys. I said = that that they need to do a better job screening their intel. It seemed = both he and Carlos went back and forth on whether the intel came from = internal sources or external ones. At one point he said people were = calling their hotline with tips -- so I challenged him as to how someone = would know the Mr. McCrae was on Bob's airplane and then called them in = Riverside to report it. The story seemed to change to they had strong = intel internally. Never an admission that they screwed up. Just more = reasons why their intel is solid. Even at one point denying it is their = intel-- "it comes from somewhere else-- they are just the middle man." = Tony said they are all ex military and are all pilots so I pointed oujt = that the fax has numerous errors and the FARs contains no language = allowing detention of a pilot for failing to have his medical or = logbook on his person (look for that to change as CBP will probably = write criminal regulations re: pilots) . The whole time I could hear a = beep every ten seconds or so probably indicating I was being recorded. = Althoug Tony was pleasant there was no progress on this issue. None.=20 I spoke with my congressman's senior staffer as well. I relayed the = details of the issue to her and she seemed sincerely interested. She = said it is best to generate a letter from our organizations (we are) and = forward that with a personal note to all of our congressmen. She said I = should be carefull so that I don't become a target.=20 All for now.=20 Jeff "Bullseye" Edwards ------=_NextPart_000_0397_01CC082D.1C368F70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am forwarding this to = our group,=20 if it hasn't already been done so.  We also need to be concerned = about this=20 situation.  I would suggest that anybody with any infleuence may = want to=20 put his 2C into it.
Greg Ward
Lancair Legacy 20b, = N178RG, still in=20 progress
 
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: vtailjeff@aol.com=20
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:00 AM
Subject: [LML] Re: Beware update


As most of you on the list know we had an incident in April = here in St.=20 Louis where one of our own was "stopped" by local police based on a = "tip" from=20 Customs and Border Patrol. Here is an update to that story:
 
Bob Rickard (who was the individual stopped) and I have received = more=20 emails from other Lancair pilots who have been stopped as well based on = "tips"=20 from CBP. So this is not an isolated incident. I contacted AOPA, my=20 congressman's staff, and CBP themselves. AOPA's Craig Spence is = presently=20 working this issue on our behalf. He already had ascheduled =  meeting with=20 CBP on Wednesday, so he brought this subject up. He said that CBP wants = to be=20 the new "skycop".  He conveyed our concerns to them --targeting GA = for=20 poloce searches and the issue of the fax that is sent to police agencies = justifying detaining pilots. Mr. Spence told them that the fax has = errors on it=20 and agreed to help them correct those. On the issue of tracking GA = flights and=20 detaining pilots, Mr. Spence said the CBP is not budging. He believes we = need to=20 take this to Congressional leaders --he said we are in for a long battle = with=20 CBP.
 
The day after Mr. Spence's meeting I received two phone calls from = CBP (so=20 it is true about smelly stuff rolling downhill). The first call was from = "Carlos" at CBP HQ. Carlos works in Gen. Mike Kostelnik's office in DC.=20 Kostelnik, a retired AF two star,  is the head of the CBP Air and = Marine=20 Center. Carlos wanted to know what our concerns were and I repeated that = we did=20 not like getting stopped based on bogus information. He wanted to know = how I was=20 certain CBP was behind these stops (he implied they had nothing to do = with it)=20 and I said it was from information from the local police and the fax = AMOC sent=20 to them. (Ah, the truth and evidence is so great)  He was pretty = agitated=20 during our conversation and said if we were stopped and the police = questioned us=20 then we should tell them what they wanted to know. I said I disagreed = (Fifth=20 Amendment) . I gave him the specifics of Bobaloos stop two weeks ago and = he=20 agreed to look into it.  I said that in the best light their intell = is=20 either unvetted or their analyis is poor. He disagreed (of course) = and gave=20 many other reasons (all bogus) as to why their intel was good. He said = it could=20 have been because the aircraft was a prior drug aircraft. I replied that = would=20 be pretty difficult since I built it, flew it and then sold it to Col. = Rickard.=20 I said that in the worst light --their folks are making up stories to = get the=20 local police to stop GA pilots--for the crime of ....flying. Of course = he about=20 blew a gasket. I asked him to  tell me where CBP got this = information about Bob carrying a fugitive. He replied that is a = matter of=20 national security and could not tell me.
 
A couple of hours later I receive a phone call from Tony C. at the = CBP AMOC=20 in Riverside, CA asking again about my concerns. Again I expressed the = same and=20 while he was very polite and cordial and appears to be a dedicated = public=20 servant doing a tough job I reiterated that law abiding GA pilots do not = enjoy=20 getting stopped by law enforcement based on seemingly bogus information. = Tony=20 said they are just trying to "put their eyes on people"--meaning us. I = remarked=20 that there has to be a better way of doing that than surrounding a = pilot=20 with 6 police cars and ten officers. He said they have  tough job = catching=20 bad guys. I said that  that they need to do a better job screening = their=20 intel. It seemed both he and Carlos went back and forth on whether the = intel=20 came from internal sources or external ones. At one point he said people = were=20 calling their hotline with tips -- so I challenged him as to how someone = would=20 know the Mr. McCrae was on Bob's airplane and then called them in = Riverside to=20 report it. The story seemed to change to they had strong intel = internally. Never=20 an admission that they screwed up. Just more reasons why their intel is = solid.=20 Even at one point denying it is their intel-- "it comes from somewhere = else--=20 they are just the middle man." Tony said they are all ex military and = are all=20 pilots so I pointed oujt that the fax has numerous errors and the=20 FARs contains no language allowing detention of  a pilot for = failing=20 to have his medical or logbook on his person (look for that to change as = CBP=20 will probably write criminal regulations re: pilots) . The whole = time I=20 could hear a  beep every ten seconds or so probably indicating I = was being=20 recorded. Althoug Tony was pleasant there was no progress on this issue. = None.=20
 
I spoke with my congressman's senior staffer as well. I relayed the = details=20 of the issue to her and she seemed sincerely interested. She said it is = best to=20 generate a letter from our organizations (we are) and forward that with = a=20 personal note to all of our congressmen.  She said I = should be=20 carefull so that I don't become a target.
 
All for now.
 
Jeff "Bullseye" Edwards
 ------=_NextPart_000_0397_01CC082D.1C368F70--