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Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 20:42:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
Subject: Re:  EGT Values and recovery.
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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Steve,=0A=A0=A0 It is my understanding that you have no manual control at a=
ll on your =0Amixture............Is that =0A=0Acorrect ??...............Jus=
t a single lever (throttle) ?.............Lynn you =0Ahave some knowledge o=
f =0A=0Athe "Mistral" ECU............Their system does self dianostics but =
the operator =0Ahas no way to=0Aadjust timing or fuel to air ratio.........=
....Is that correct ??=0A=0A=A0 Lynn give us the "Much More" mentioned in t=
he last post............=0A=0A=0AThanks,=0A=A0=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA=
 JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_=
Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________=
_______________________=0AFrom: "Lehanover@aol.com" <Lehanover@aol.com>=0AT=
o: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=0ASent: Sat, Feb=
ruary 5, 2011 8:56:04 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] EGT Values and recovery.=0A=
=0AWhile no two installations are identical, here some ideas that have work=
ed =0Afor=A0me and my thinking on why.=0A=0AEGT (Exhaust Gas Temperature) i=
s a view inside the combustion chamber with an =0Aeye toward performance.=
=0A=0AEGT probes go in the header pipe 3" out from the port face. If the pi=
pe is =0Acurving this close to the engine, the probe goes on the outside of=
 the curve. =0AExhaust gasses are passing over the probe above the speed of=
 sound. How hot or =0Acold the pipe is will be of no matter.=A0 There is no=
 time for cooling losses. =0A=0A=0AThe idea of the EGT monitoring is to kee=
p the mixture well rich of PEAK EGT. =0ABecause you can melt important piec=
es at 1900 Degrees. So we run the engine rich =0Aof best power and=A0well r=
ich of peak EGT.=0A=0AThe muffler and Apex seals will thank you. =0A=0AAt b=
est power the EGT is just a blink rich of peak EGT. So the story about the =
=0Aengine running real strong just before it melted a piston, is accurate. =
It was =0Arunning at best power and melted a piston. =0A=0A=0AAnother old s=
aw is: I leaned it out just one jet size and it melted a piston. =0AAgain a=
ccurate. The engine was running just rich enough to stay alive (just rich =
=0Aof best power) and leaning the engine took it to best power or just a bi=
t worse =0A(Peak EGT).=A0=0A=0AThe cast iron rotor will not melt but the ap=
ex seals can warp from overheated =0Acenters passing over the exhaust port.=
 =0A=0A=0ASo shoot for About 12.5:1 on the A/F meter or 1600 degrees or les=
s on the EGT =0Afor take off, climb and accelerate to cruise speed. Then qu=
ickly lean past peak =0AEGT to lean stumble, then back rich just enough for=
 smooth operation. Check the =0AEGT now. If you want even more range add a =
monster ignition system and you can =0Ahold off lean stumble while going ev=
en leaner. Control power with fuel flow. =0ALeave the throttle wide open.=
=0A=0A=A0The EGT gage only works for loaded wide open throttle operation. I=
t is useless =0Aotherwise. A heated O2 sensor for other work. =0A=0A=0AIn t=
he search for more power we often leave out oil cooling. More important on =
=0APported engines than side ported. The poorly cooled rotor (Oil cooled) c=
an see =0Athe inlet tract in Infr-red. In the Pport nearly all of it can be=
 seen. So the =0Ainlet charge is heated before it gets into the engine. Rem=
ember pulling on the =0Acarb heat on the Cub and looking for a 150 RPM drop=
? Same idea. Charge expands =0Aso less fuel and air per cubic foot so less =
power. Simple. In the side port =0Aengine not much of the inlet can be "see=
n" by the rotor, so a bit less effect. =0A=0A=0AThis applies to older side =
port and Pport engines. Renesis and turbocharged =0Aengines are completely =
different and require different support.=0A=0AMistral was probably running =
as lean as is possible without damage. That would =0Abe rich of peak for fu=
ll throttle, and less rich for cruise. They had to stay on =0Athe safe side=
 of everything, as they had no control of the installations (I was =0Aoffer=
ed a job inspecting Mistral customer installations) and no control of fuel =
=0Aoctane or quality. No doubt there are knock sensors in their system, but=
 I know =0Anothing of how it works. =0A=0A=0AThere is much more............=
..........=0A=0ALynn E. Hanover=0A
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:1=
2pt"><DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV>Steve,</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp; It is my understan=
ding that you have no manual control at all on your mixture............Is t=
hat </DIV>=0A<DIV>correct ??...............Just a single lever (throttle) ?=
.............Lynn you have some knowledge of </DIV>=0A<DIV>the "Mistral" EC=
U............Their system does self dianostics but the operator has no way =
to</DIV>=0A<DIV>adjust timing or fuel to air ratio.............Is that corr=
ect ??</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp; Lynn give us the "Much More"=
 mentioned in the last post............</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>&n=
bsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>Thanks,<BR>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<P>Kelly Troyer<BR><STRONG><FON=
T size=3D4>"DYKE DELTA JD2"</FONT> <FONT size=3D1>(Eventually)</FONT></STRO=
NG></P>=0A<P>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine<BR>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2<BR>"MISTRAL"_Backpl=
ate/Oil Manifold</P>=0A<P>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo</P>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=
=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt=
"><BR>=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif=
; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma>=0A<HR SIZE=3D1>=0A<B><SPAN=
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> "Lehanover@aol.com" &lt;Lehan=
over@aol.com&gt;<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Rot=
ary motors in aircraft &lt;flyrotary@lancaironline.net&gt;<BR><B><SPAN styl=
e=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sat, February 5, 2011 8:56:04 PM<B=
R><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [FlyRotary] EGT =
Values and recovery.<BR></FONT><BR><FONT id=3Drole_document color=3D#000000=
 size=3D2 face=3DArial>=0A<DIV>While no two installations are identical, he=
re some ideas that have worked for&nbsp;me and my thinking on why.</DIV>=0A=
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>EGT (Exhaust Gas Temperature) is a view inside the=
 combustion chamber with an eye toward performance.</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DI=
V>=0A<DIV>EGT probes go in the header pipe 3" out from the port face. If th=
e pipe is curving this close to the engine, the probe goes on the outside o=
f the curve. Exhaust gasses are passing over the probe above the speed of s=
ound. How hot or cold the pipe is will be of no matter.&nbsp; There is no t=
ime for cooling losses. </DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>The idea of the E=
GT monitoring is to keep the mixture well rich of PEAK EGT. Because you can=
 melt important pieces at 1900 Degrees. So we run the engine rich of best p=
ower and&nbsp;well rich of peak EGT.</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>The m=
uffler and Apex seals will thank you. </DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>At =
best power the EGT is just a blink rich of peak EGT. So the story about the=
 engine running real strong just before it melted a piston, is accurate. It=
 was running at best power and melted a piston. </DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=
=0A<DIV>Another old saw is: I leaned it out just one jet size and it melted=
 a piston. Again accurate. The engine was running just rich enough to stay =
alive (just rich of best power) and leaning the engine took it to best powe=
r or just a bit worse (Peak EGT).&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>Th=
e cast iron rotor will not melt but the apex seals can warp from overheated=
 centers passing over the exhaust port. </DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>S=
o shoot for About 12.5:1 on the A/F meter or 1600 degrees or less on the EG=
T for take off, climb and accelerate to cruise speed. Then quickly lean pas=
t peak EGT to lean stumble, then back rich just enough for smooth operation=
. Check the EGT now. If you want even more range add a monster ignition sys=
tem and you can hold off lean stumble while going even leaner. Control powe=
r with fuel flow. Leave the throttle wide open.</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=
=0A<DIV>&nbsp;The EGT gage only works for loaded wide open throttle operati=
on. It is useless otherwise. A heated O2 sensor for other work. </DIV>=0A<D=
IV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>In the search for more power we often leave out oil =
cooling. More important on Pported engines than side ported. The poorly coo=
led rotor (Oil cooled) can see the inlet tract in Infr-red. In the Pport ne=
arly all of it can be seen. So the inlet charge is heated before it gets in=
to the engine. Remember pulling on the carb heat on the Cub and looking for=
 a 150 RPM drop? Same idea. Charge expands so less fuel and air per cubic f=
oot so less power. Simple. In the side port engine not much of the inlet ca=
n be "seen" by the rotor, so a bit less effect. </DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=
=0A<DIV>This applies to older side port and Pport engines. Renesis and turb=
ocharged engines are completely different and require different support.</D=
IV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>Mistral was probably running as lean as is p=
ossible without damage. That would be rich of peak for full throttle, and l=
ess rich for cruise. They had to stay on the safe side of everything, as th=
ey had no control of the installations (I was offered a job inspecting Mist=
ral customer installations) and no control of fuel octane or quality. No do=
ubt there are knock sensors in their system, but I know nothing of how it w=
orks. </DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>There is much more.................=
.....</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>Lynn E. Hanover</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;<=
/DIV></FONT></DIV></DIV></div></body></html>
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