X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2a) with ESMTP id 4828146 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 08:53:41 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.123; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=uESSSoDEku2quKX/oFXS2Smn5+55LTFcWFr5T5T8nFs= c=1 sm=0 a=z7yuuHAQKWgA:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:17 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=r1ClD_H3AAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=i_aNNktnbSBDEqau6S0A:9 a=q34E_gHOaYG0G8mEkxoA:7 a=2Ki0dcUEflSV4dlq5gChv2rxK64A:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=vAV_Nj8r_YO8B9IxPzQA:9 a=H4SotZ6lJiHoZwsYQWQA:7 a=D6eCSLNpFMn5Oi0ti4jBaxDRGyIA:4 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=rPkcCx1H5rrOSfN0dPC7kw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.167.5 Received: from [174.110.167.5] ([174.110.167.5:49729] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 06/54-07087-3C8714D4; Thu, 27 Jan 2011 13:53:07 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Ignition systems Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 08:52:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01CBBDFF.95EB7F60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01CBBDFF.95EB7F60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dustin, I have flown behind the same automobile generator for over 10 years = (550+ Rotary hours) without a single problem with it. I flew for the = first 5 years or so with dual batteries but finally realized that the = only thing I used the extra battery for was to assist on starts on cold = mornings - so I finally removed the second battery. I actually build an ignition monitor for the Pmags on Lycomings and so = have some familarity with it and consider it an excellent step up from = magnetos - however, it is hard to beat solid state reliability when the = circuit is well design - they will generally far outlast anything = mechancial. You can fly approx 45 minutes on a sound 17 AH battery (don't ask me how = I know) before things start to unwind. Probably for up to an hour if = you shut down everything electrical you don't need to fly. On the other hand, you have to feel comfortable and have confidence in = what you are flying behind or its not worth doing. Ed Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com From: Dustin Lobner=20 Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 8:20 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ignition systems The magnetos were an example, I was hoping for something like P-mags = which are electronic ignition but don't require external power to = operate (tiny little alternator built in). Was the "solid state dang = near bullet proof" that you talk of Tracy's unit? I know how to do a dual-buss setup, with dual alternators, dual = batteries, etc. If I can avoid the weight, that would be nice, hence me = asking. Regarding having an hour of flying time after electrical failure, what = if I want more than that? Dustin On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 11:33 PM, Dave wrote: On 1/26/2011 11:01 PM, Dustin Lobner wrote: Hi Everyone, I was just wondering, what is available for ignition systems for a = Renesis? I was hoping that there would be something like a magneto or a = P-mag that would still work if the electrical system failed. I'm = thinking about using Rotec's TBI fuel injection system (mechanical fuel = injection) that can work gravity fed if need be. Only thing I'd need = then would be a self-sustaining ignition system and things would be = looking good. Dustin Let me understand.. you want to trade a solid state dang near bullet = proof ignition system for something that has less energy and requires = regular overhaul and servicing? Unless you are installing in a high wing, gravity fed will be a = non-starter (even as a back up). You would be better served with a dual battery redundant electrical = system. Some folks are even running permanent magnet generators. If you = lose an alternator/charging source, you can shed dang near all your = load, and have over an hour flying time to get on the ground.. Chris's plane has dual battery, independent busses, and dual = alternators. That setup is less failure prone than a mechanical device = that WILL require overhaul or replacement every 500 hours or so. To answer your question, I dont know of ANYONE running mags on any = auto conversion engines at all. Just lawnmowers and = lycomings/continentals/franklins. Dave -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01CBBDFF.95EB7F60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dustin,
 
I have flown behind the same automobile = generator for over=20 10 years (550+ Rotary hours) without a single problem with it.  I = flew for=20 the first 5 years or so with dual batteries but finally realized that = the only=20 thing I used the extra battery for was to assist on starts on cold = mornings - so=20 I finally removed the second battery.
 
I actually build an ignition monitor for the = Pmags on=20 Lycomings and so have some familarity with it and consider it an = excellent step=20 up from magnetos - however, it is hard to beat solid state reliability = when the=20 circuit is well design - they will generally far outlast anything=20 mechancial.
 
You can fly approx 45 minutes on a sound 17 AH = battery=20 (don't ask me how I know) before things start to unwind.  Probably = for up=20 to an hour if you shut down everything electrical  you don't need = to=20 fly.
 
On the other hand, you have to feel comfortable = and have=20 confidence in what you are flying behind or its not worth = doing.
 
Ed
 
Edward L. Anderson
Anderson Electronic = Enterprises=20 LLC
305 Reefton Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com

Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 8:20 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ignition systems

The magnetos were an example, I was hoping for something = like=20 P-mags which are electronic ignition but don't require external power to = operate=20 (tiny little alternator built in).  Was the "solid state dang near = bullet=20 proof" that you talk of Tracy's unit?

I know how to do a = dual-buss setup,=20 with dual alternators, dual batteries, etc.  If I can avoid the = weight,=20 that would be nice, hence me asking.

Regarding having an hour of = flying=20 time after electrical failure, what if I want more than=20 that?

Dustin

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 11:33 PM, Dave <david.staten@gmail.com>=20 wrote:
On 1/26/2011 11:01 PM, Dustin Lobner wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I was just wondering, what is=20 available for ignition systems for a Renesis?  I was hoping = that there=20 would be something like a magneto or a P-mag that would still work = if the=20 electrical system failed.  I'm thinking about using Rotec's TBI = fuel=20 injection system (mechanical fuel injection) that can work gravity = fed if=20 need be.  Only thing I'd need then would be a self-sustaining = ignition=20 system and things would be looking=20 good.

Dustin
Let me understand.. = you want=20 to trade a solid state dang near bullet proof ignition system for = something=20 that has less energy and requires regular overhaul and=20 servicing?

Unless you are installing in a high wing, gravity = fed will=20 be a non-starter (even as a back up).

You would be better = served with a=20 dual battery redundant electrical system. Some folks are even running=20 permanent magnet generators. If you lose an alternator/charging = source, you=20 can shed dang near all your load, and have over an hour flying time to = get on=20 the ground..

Chris's plane has dual battery, independent = busses, and=20 dual alternators. That setup is less failure prone than a mechanical = device=20 that WILL require overhaul or replacement every 500 hours or = so.

To=20 answer your question, I dont know of ANYONE running mags on any auto=20 conversion engines at all. Just lawnmowers and=20 lycomings/continentals/franklins.

Dave

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l

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