X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ey0-f180.google.com ([209.85.215.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2a) with ESMTPS id 4827132 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 11:05:47 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.215.180; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by eyf18 with SMTP id 18so593888eyf.25 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 08:05:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=oVQoAvAQE7Xka6x6IkI13OVa6PQ/Z58/yahQA++bXEw=; b=PsEwPMLHfwynyxNDOLRoDvrQElkSB7lVNFi18dgZsjLqwLPebpUWWDQjY2tdQKhM9O Pd7RJJ+Q1DHnFhut6kvzyN8x1r/SI9NpEMhayabl4JRFzu8mHj1+MXfxYCQxNKACu8xM 5yGXAdJGkRhreppoTpHrIi5FBsQnuKRSgkONY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=vL9OXw+HxQZBKyxcBLPmxkN1EdAXATQsKS2+MRfXg8+gcR9OSRPKAh6cThno+IwR8L z1UJud8blJLtEpT7KXZPF1qQHW7kSsdrv/BhjWFaniJ8G/wxBgkV5OTDJn6GfwV9ko54 J97/vVErl/iHQ/WQ3Ix/RjWMSHfzID/cVC5GA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.213.5.20 with SMTP id 20mr1468533ebt.50.1296057909320; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 08:05:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.213.28.142 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 08:05:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 10:05:09 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Most stupid question here ever...rotor position From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015174be4d04b1d60049ac1ffb0 --0015174be4d04b1d60049ac1ffb0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris, Yes, overthinking problems is easy to do. I typically lean toward underthinking problems. I was going to stop by on Saturday, but I experienced a corrupted MAP table incident just prior to departure. It didn't dawn on me initially what had hapened. But as soon as I looked at the map table I knew that it had been corrupted. I reloaded the factory table and it fixed the immediate problem. Now I just need to figure out why it happened. Tracy suggested i= t may be a spike eminating from the starter solenoid. Mark On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Chris Barber wr= ote: > Mark, > > > > Thanks. That is what I was thinking but then I started over thinking it. > > > > Now I can focus on the other tasks at hand. Again, I believe it to be > timing related. When I turned the CAS, retarded I think (clockwise), it > seemed to crank a bit better on B. So, like I said, I may be a tooth off= . > At least it is a starting point. > > > > Isn't this fun.......:-\ > > > > Chris > ------------------------------ > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf > of Mark Steitle [msteitle@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 26, 2011 9:06 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Most stupid question here ever...rotor positio= n > > Chris, > > The rear rotor will only fit one way as dictated by the eccentric shaft, > stationary gear and rotor housing. So, don't disassemble the motor again= ... > unless you just need something to do with your spare time. > > Mark > > On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Chris Barber = wrote: > >> This may be the most stupid question posed on this site. >> >> >> >> Ok, first the update on my loss of compression in my rear rotor housing. >> I tore open the engine and everything looked really good, except, as >> expected, the springs for the apex seals had been flattened. Upon >> reflection, I also remember removing the rear spark plug a while back an= d >> recall I replaced it due to the plug removed looked damaged. At the >> time, since the engine seemed to be running ok (event though difficult t= o >> start), I didn=92t think too much of it. However, now I realize that it >> was a clear indication of detonation. >> >> >> >> Seems like a no brainer now, but sometimes I gotta be hit across the >> skull with the obvious. Flame suite on but in the tradition of John >> Slade, I do wish to post my failures to help others learn and to hopeful= ly >> finally get it. >> >> >> >> Anyway, I got everything buttoned up and got it to start last night. I >> reset all the EC2 parameters to the factory defaults. It did not run >> well. I could not even get it to start on the A computer, and it starte= d >> after a lot of extended cranking on the B computer. It did not run grea= t >> on B. My suspicion is that the timing is off. The B computer was tuned >> a long time ago and has not been updated. I plan to do a static timing >> check this evening if I can get out to the hangar. I have gotten that >> process down pretty good now. I think I may be off a tooth on the crank >> angle sensor. I think a combination of a lean mixture and bad timing ma= y >> be the predominant factors in my detonation problem. I had a friend >> point out the obvious in that the pinging I may have thought I would hea= r >> would not be too likely with the noise of the prop. DOH! >> >> >> >> I did do the EC2 check and the injectors are clicking dutifully and I sa= w >> strong spark on all plugs. >> >> >> >> Ok, here is the stupid question and a major bonehead moment. I remember >> that you must =93 clock =93 the rear rotor to the front rotor when insta= lling >> them. However, when I installed the rear rotor the other day I placed i= t >> where I though it needed to go base on when I removed it, however, I can= =92t >> remember now if I actually got it back in the right position in relation= to >> the front rotor. I was thinking it is only gonna fit one way based on >> the position of the e-shaft to the chamber walls. Is this so, or could = I >> have it out of position? I am having visions of me getting it to start >> with the rear rotor out of position, thus only running on the front roto= r >> while banging the hell out of the rear rotor. Would it even start if >> this were so? >> >> >> >> If I gotta tear it down to check, I will and as mentioned, cracking open >> is not all that big a deal anymore. Other than this obvious brain fart, >> I am understanding the process much better=85.rote practice does this. >> >> >> >> Thanks guys/gals. >> >> >> >> Chris Barberfly >> > > --0015174be4d04b1d60049ac1ffb0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chris,
=A0
Yes, overthinking problems is=A0easy to do.=A0 I typically lean toward= underthinking problems.=A0 =A0
=A0
I was going to stop by on Saturday, but I experienced a corrupted MAP = table incident just prior to departure.=A0 It didn't dawn on me initial= ly what had hapened.=A0 But as soon as I looked at the map table I=A0knew t= hat=A0it had been corrupted.=A0 I reloaded the factory table and it=A0fixed= the immediate problem.=A0 Now I just need to figure out why it happened.= =A0=A0Tracy suggested it may be a spike eminating from the starter solenoid= .=A0
=A0
Mark=A0

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Chris Barber <cbarber@te= xasattorney.net> wrote:

Mark,

=A0

Thanks.=A0 That is what I was thinking but then I started=A0over = thinking it.

=A0

Now I can focus on the other tasks at hand.=A0 Again, I=A0believe= it to be timing related.=A0 When I turned the CAS, retarded = I think (clockwise), it seemed to crank a bit better on B.=A0 So, like I sa= id, I may be a tooth off. At least it is a starting point.

=A0

Isn't this fun.......:-\

=A0

Chris

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on be= half of Mark Steitle [msteitle@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 9:06 AM
To: Rotary motor= s in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Most stupid question here = ever...rotor position

Chris,
=A0
The rear rotor will only fit one way as dictated by the eccentric shaf= t, stationary gear and rotor housing.=A0 So,=A0don't disassemble the mo= tor again... unless you just need something to do with your spare time.
=A0
Mark

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Chris Barber <cbarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:

This may be the most stupid question posed on thi= s site.=A0

=A0

Ok, first the update on my loss of compression in my re= ar rotor housing.=A0 I tore open the engine and everything loo= ked really good, except, as expected, the springs for the apex seals had be= en flattened.=A0 Upon reflection, I also remember removing the= rear spark plug a while back and recall I replaced it due to the plug remo= ved looked damaged.=A0 At the time, since the engine seemed to= be running ok (event though difficult to start), I didn=92t think too much= of it.=A0 However, now I realize that it was a clear indicati= on of detonation.

=A0

Seems like a no brainer now, but sometimes I=A0gotta= be hit across the skull with the obvious.=A0 Flame suite = on but in the tradition of John Slade, I do wish to post my failures to hel= p others learn and to hopefully finally get it.

=A0

Anyway, I got everything buttoned up and got it to star= t last night.=A0 I reset all the=A0EC2 parameters to th= e factory defaults. It did not run well.=A0 I could not even g= et it to start on the A computer, and it started after a lot of extended cr= anking on the B computer.=A0 It did not run great on B.= =A0 My suspicion is that the timing is off.=A0 The B co= mputer was tuned a long time ago and has not been updated.=A0 = I plan to do a static timing check this evening if I can get out to the han= gar.=A0 I have gotten that process down pretty good now.= =A0 I think I may be off a tooth on the crank angle sensor.=A0= I think a combination of a lean mixture and bad timing may be the p= redominant factors in my detonation problem.=A0 I had a friend= point out the obvious in that the pinging I may have thought I would hear = would not be too likely with the noise of the prop.=A0 DOH<= /a>!

=A0

I did do the=A0EC2 check and the injectors are c= licking dutifully and I saw strong spark on all plugs.

=A0

Ok, here is the stupid question and a major bonehead mo= ment.=A0 I remember that you must =93 clock =93 the rear rotor= to the front rotor when installing them.=A0 However, when I i= nstalled the rear rotor the other day I placed it where I though it needed = to go base on when I removed it, however, I can=92t remember now if I actua= lly got it back in the right position in relation to the front rotor.= =A0 I was thinking it is only=A0gonna fit one way based on th= e position of the e-shaft to the chamber walls.=A0 Is this so,= or could I have it out of position?=A0 I am having visions of= me getting it to start with the rear rotor out of position, thus only runn= ing on the front rotor while banging the hell out of the rear rotor. = =A0=A0Would it even start if this were so?

=A0

If I=A0gotta tear it down to check, I will and a= s mentioned, cracking open is not all that big a deal anymore.=A0 Other than this obvious brain fart, I am understanding the process much= better=85.rote practice does this.

=A0

Thanks guys/gals.

=A0

Chris Barberfly



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