X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [64.129.170.194] (HELO VIRCOM1.fcdata.private) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c2a) with ESMTP id 4827109 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 10:48:29 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.129.170.194; envelope-from=cbarber@texasattorney.net Received: from FCD-MAIL06.FCDATA.PRIVATE ([fe80::697f:d6aa:b87:78d8]) by FCD-MAIL05.FCDATA.PRIVATE ([fe80::809d:a06e:5913:452e%15]) with mapi id 14.01.0270.001; Wed, 26 Jan 2011 09:44:15 -0600 From: Chris Barber To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Most stupid question here ever...rotor position Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Most stupid question here ever...rotor position Thread-Index: AQHLvWqvBiLCQkqPO06R63QWYWwB4JPjZQtO Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 15:47:47 +0000 Message-ID: <2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D30356E1AA0@FCD-MAIL06.FCDATA.PRIVATE> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [166.139.76.11] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D30356E1AA0FCDMAIL06FCDATA_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D30356E1AA0FCDMAIL06FCDATA_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, Thanks. That is what I was thinking but then I started over thinking it. Now I can focus on the other tasks at hand. Again, I believe it to be timi= ng related. When I turned the CAS, retarded I think (clockwise), it seemed= to crank a bit better on B. So, like I said, I may be a tooth off. At lea= st it is a starting point. Isn't this fun.......:-\ Chris ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of = Mark Steitle [msteitle@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 9:06 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Most stupid question here ever...rotor position Chris, The rear rotor will only fit one way as dictated by the eccentric shaft, st= ationary gear and rotor housing. So, don't disassemble the motor again... = unless you just need something to do with your spare time. Mark On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Chris Barber > wrote: This may be the most stupid question posed on this site. Ok, first the update on my loss of compression in my rear rotor housing. I= tore open the engine and everything looked really good, except, as expecte= d, the springs for the apex seals had been flattened. Upon reflection, I a= lso remember removing the rear spark plug a while back and recall I replace= d it due to the plug removed looked damaged. At the time, since the engine= seemed to be running ok (event though difficult to start), I didn=92t thin= k too much of it. However, now I realize that it was a clear indication of= detonation. Seems like a no brainer now, but sometimes I gotta be hit across the skull = with the obvious. Flame suite on but in the tradition of John Slade, I do = wish to post my failures to help others learn and to hopefully finally get = it. Anyway, I got everything buttoned up and got it to start last night. I res= et all the EC2 parameters to the factory defaults. It did not run well. I = could not even get it to start on the A computer, and it started after a lo= t of extended cranking on the B computer. It did not run great on B. My s= uspicion is that the timing is off. The B computer was tuned a long time a= go and has not been updated. I plan to do a static timing check this eveni= ng if I can get out to the hangar. I have gotten that process down pretty = good now. I think I may be off a tooth on the crank angle sensor. I think= a combination of a lean mixture and bad timing may be the predominant fact= ors in my detonation problem. I had a friend point out the obvious in that= the pinging I may have thought I would hear would not be too likely with t= he noise of the prop. DOH! I did do the EC2 check and the injectors are clicking dutifully and I saw s= trong spark on all plugs. Ok, here is the stupid question and a major bonehead moment. I remember th= at you must =93 clock =93 the rear rotor to the front rotor when installing= them. However, when I installed the rear rotor the other day I placed it = where I though it needed to go base on when I removed it, however, I can=92= t remember now if I actually got it back in the right position in relation = to the front rotor. I was thinking it is only gonna fit one way based on t= he position of the e-shaft to the chamber walls. Is this so, or could I ha= ve it out of position? I am having visions of me getting it to start with = the rear rotor out of position, thus only running on the front rotor while = banging the hell out of the rear rotor. Would it even start if this were = so? If I gotta tear it down to check, I will and as mentioned, cracking open is= not all that big a deal anymore. Other than this obvious brain fart, I am= understanding the process much better=85.rote practice does this. Thanks guys/gals. Chris Barberfly --_000_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D30356E1AA0FCDMAIL06FCDATA_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mark,

 

Thanks.  That is what I was thinking but then I started = ;over thinking it.

 

Now I can focus on the other tasks at hand.  Again, I believe<= a> it to be timing related.  When I turned the CAS, = retarded I think (clockwise), it seemed to crank a bit better on B.  S= o, like I said, I may be a tooth off. At least it is a starting point.

 

Isn't this fun.......:-\

 

Chris

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary= @lancaironline.net] on behalf of Mark Steitle [msteitle@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 9:06 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Most stupid question here ever...rotor posi= tion

Chris,
 
The rear rotor will only fit one way as dictated by the eccentric shaf= t, stationary gear and rotor housing.  So, don't disassemble the = motor again... unless you just need something to do with your spare time.
 
Mark

On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Chris Barber <cbarber@= texasattorney.net> wrote:

This may be the most stupid question posed on thi= s site. 

 

Ok, first the update on my loss of compression in my re= ar rotor housing.  I tore open the engine and everything looked really good, except, as= expected, the springs for the apex seals had been flattened.  Upon reflection, I also remember removing the rear spark plug a whil= e back and recall I replaced it due to the plug removed looked damaged.  At the time, since the engine seemed to be running ok (event though = difficult to start), I didn=92t think too much of it.  However, now I realize that it was a clear indication of detonation.=

 

Seems like a no brainer now, but sometimes I gotta= be hit across the skull with the obvious.  Flame suite on but in the tradition of John Slade, I do wish to post= my failures to help others learn and to hopefully finally get it.

 

Anyway, I got everything buttoned up and got it to star= t last night.  I reset all the EC2 parameters to the factory defaults. = It did not run well.  I could not even get it to start on the A computer, and it started a= fter a lot of extended cranking on the B computer.  It did not run great on B.  My suspicion is that t= he timing is off.  The B computer was tuned a long time ago and has not been updated.  I plan to do a static timing check this evening if I can get out to the han= gar.  I have gotten that process down pretty good now.  = I think I may be off a tooth on the crank angle sensor.  I think a combination of a lean mixture and bad timing may be the pr= edominant factors in my detonation problem.  I had a friend point out the obvious in that the pinging I may have = thought I would hear would not be too likely with the noise of the prop.  DOH!

 

I did do the EC2 check and the injectors ar= e clicking dutifully and I saw strong spark on all plugs.

 

Ok, here is the stupid question and a major bonehead mo= ment.  I remember that you must =93 clock =93 the rear rotor to the front r= otor when installing them.  However, when I installed the rear rotor the other day I placed it w= here I though it needed to go base on when I removed it, however, I can=92t= remember now if I actually got it back in the right position in relation t= o the front rotor.  I was thinking it is only gonna fit one way based on the= position of the e-shaft to the chamber walls.  Is this so, or could I have it out of position?  I= am having visions of me getting it to start with the rear rotor out of pos= ition, thus only running on the front rotor while banging the hell out of t= he rear rotor.   Would it even start if this were so?

 

If I gotta tear it down to check, I will an= d as mentioned, cracking open is not all that big a deal anymore.&nbs= p; Other than this obvious brain fart, I am understanding the process m= uch better=85.rote practice does this.

 

Thanks guys/gals.

 

Chris Barberfly


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