X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from qmta11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.27.211] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c1) with ESMTP id 4792125 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 20:43:46 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.27.211; envelope-from=hoursaway1@comcast.net Received: from omta11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.36]) by qmta11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id xdin1f0030mlR8UABdjBeU; Thu, 20 Jan 2011 01:43:11 +0000 Received: from sz0081.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.137]) by omta11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id xdjA1f00a2xV6SL8XdjApe; Thu, 20 Jan 2011 01:43:10 +0000 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 01:43:10 +0000 (UTC) From: hoursaway1@comcast.net To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-ID: <533623804.1527159.1295487790190.JavaMail.root@sz0081a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] MAP table corruption? Nope! fuel filters! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1527158_1391737104.1295487790189" X-Originating-IP: [68.61.190.35] X-Mailer: Zimbra 6.0.5_GA_2431.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - IE8 (Win)/6.0.5_GA_2427.RHEL4) ------=_Part_1527158_1391737104.1295487790189 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The GM EFI style fuel filter is good sized=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://www.summitrac= ing.com/parts/ACF-GF652/ =C2=A0=C2=A0 & can be used on the pressure side wi= th adapters to AN -6,=C2=A0 but I would not pay $20, should be aprox. $5 ?= =C2=A0 When you get the adapters remove the O-rings & check that they do no= t swell with auto fuel useage, ours were ok but some other seals were not t= hat were in our sys.=C2=A0 Also check any gskt. sealant that you used in fu= el sys.// tank sender cover gskt.=C2=A0 what ever, we had the aviation apro= ved gskt. sealant turn to a gray powder/mud=C2=A0 ( powder when dried out )= =C2=A0from auto fuel additives/ethonal ?.=C2=A0 Found in the bottom of fue= l tanks, sender cover gskts. leaking fuel.=C2=A0 All within aprox. one week= fuel was in tank, did not run eng. yet at that point. Lucky.=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 David R. Cook=C2=A0 RV6A=C2=A0 Rotary=C2=A0 (12 deg. F, = at 6:00pm=C2=A0 last eight weeks )=C2=A0 Lansing MI.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Bill Bradburry" =20 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =20 Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 12:33:40 AM=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] MAP table corruption? Nope! fuel filters!=20 Well, the MAP table was ok.=C2=A0 The problem was my high pressure fuel fil= ter on the primary fuel pump.=C2=A0 There were a lot of black particles in = the filter that had it blocked.=C2=A0 The secondary filter was clean but ha= d only been run for a few minutes.=C2=A0 This is the second time I found bl= ack material in this filter.=C2=A0 The first time was about 40 gallons ago.= =C2=A0 This previous material was somewhat gooey and I thought that it may = have come from not properly cleaning my hoses out after I made them.=C2=A0 = This time the material looked like tiny black particles.=C2=A0 I don=E2=80= =99t think they came from the hoses, but if not, they must have come from t= he pump itself.=20 My fuel system is ..from the wing tanks: a finger strainer in the outlet of= the tank, then to a fuel selector valve, then thru a boost pump, then to a= Gascolator, then to either of primary or secondary fuel pump, then a filte= r after each pump, then fuel rail, then fuel pressure regulator, then exces= s fuel returns thru the selector valve to the tank I am using from.=20 I haven=E2=80=99t yet checked my finger strainers because they are a bitch = to get to, but my Gascolator did not have any of the black particles in it.= =C2=A0 It had a small amount of white fuzz that is probably fiberglass dust= from my fuel tanks in it.=C2=A0 This leaves me a section of -8 hose about = 14 inches long or the fuel pump to be the source of the black particles.=C2= =A0 Oh yeah, the finger strainers and the Gascolator are both able to move = fuel.=C2=A0 I emptied both tanks of about 15 gal of fuel so that I could tr= y and check the finger strainers.=C2=A0 The boost pump filled a 5 gal can i= n 2 or 3 minutes pumping thru the strainers and Gascolator.=C2=A0 My fuel l= ines up to the FI pumps are all either =C2=BD inch or -8 in size.=C2=A0 Aft= er the FI pumps the fuel lines go to -6 to the regulator and -4 to return t= o the tanks.=20 Is anyone else seeing this kind of material in their filters?=20 Also, since this occurred with about a tank of gas since I last cleaned the= filters, I am concerned about the capacity of the fuel filters I am using.= =C2=A0 I am using Summit filters like the one here.=20 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-230105/=20 This filter has a small screen that is about =C2=BE inch in diameter and is= 40 microns, so when it gets very little contamination, it plugs.=C2=A0 I a= m thinking it would be fine for a drag car, but not for hours of flight unl= ess your system was so clean you didn=E2=80=99t need it in the first place.= =20 I originally had one filter in the system, but became concerned and added a= nother one.=C2=A0 Now I am wondering if I should go to the type of filter t= hat looks like an oil filter and if I do, would one be sufficient or should= I try and put in two filters of that type.=C2=A0 I have very little space = to add this type of filter and I don=E2=80=99t know if it would even be pos= sible to add two of them.=C2=A0 I would really appreciate any input you guy= s could give and possibly some pics of your installation if you are using t= he oil filter type.=C2=A0 Do these type have the capacity to flow fuel when= they get contaminated or will they block like these small in line filters?= =20 Fuel starvation is a major cause of experimental plane crashes and I am clo= se enough to be thinking of flying.=C2=A0 :>)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hep me!=C2= =A0 Hep me!=20 Bill B=20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Bill Bradburry=20 Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 5:24 PM=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Apex seals and MAP table corruption?=20 I may be taking it back what I said about the MAP table.=C2=A0 During my ru= nup today, I noticed that the fuel pressure was dropping.=C2=A0 At full WOT= , the pressure dropped to below 20 psi.=C2=A0 I engaged the secondary fuel = pump and the pressure came back to the 40 lb range.=C2=A0 It appears that m= y fuel filter after the primary pump may be partially clogged.=C2=A0 I will= clean them tomorrow and let you know what I find.=20 Bill B=20 ------=_Part_1527158_1391737104.1295487790189 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= div style=3D'font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>The GM EF= I style fuel filter is good sized   http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ACF-GF652/   & can be used on the pressure side with adapters to AN -6= ,  but I would not pay $20, should be aprox. $5 ?  When you get t= he adapters remove the O-rings & check that they do not swell with auto= fuel useage, ours were ok but some other seals were not that were in our s= ys.  Also check any gskt. sealant that you used in fuel sys.// tank se= nder cover gskt.  what ever, we had the aviation aproved gskt. sealant= turn to a gray powder/mud  ( powder when dried out )  from auto = fuel additives/ethonal ?.  Found in the bottom of fuel tanks, sender c= over gskts. leaking fuel.  All within aprox. one week fuel was in tank= , did not run eng. yet at that point. Lucky.      = David R. Cook  RV6A  Rotary  (12 deg. F, at 6:00pm  las= t eight weeks )  Lansing MI.
----- Original Message -----
From: = "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
To: "Rotary motors in = aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 1= 9, 2011 12:33:40 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] MAP table corruption? Nope! fue= l filters!

Well, the MAP table w= as ok.  The problem was my high pressure fuel filter on the primary fu= el pump.  There were a lot of black particles in the filter that had i= t blocked.  The secondary filter was clean but had only been run for a= few minutes.  This is the second time I found black material in this = filter.  The first time was about 40 gallons ago.  This previous = material was somewhat gooey and I thought that it may have come from not pr= operly cleaning my hoses out after I made them.  This time the materia= l looked like tiny black particles.  I don=E2=80=99t think they came f= rom the hoses, but if not, they must have come from the pump itself.=

 <= /P>

My fuel system is ..f= rom the wing tanks: a finger strainer in the outlet of the tank, then to a = fuel selector valve, then thru a boost pump, then to a Gascolator, then to = either of primary or secondary fuel pump, then a filter after each pump, th= en fuel rail, then fuel pressure regulator, then excess fuel returns thru t= he selector valve to the tank I am using from.

 <= /P>

I haven=E2=80=99t yet= checked my finger strainers because they are a bitch to get to, but my Gas= colator did not have any of the black particles in it.  It had a small= amount of white fuzz that is probably fiberglass dust from my fuel tanks i= n it.  This leaves me a section of -8 hose about 14 inches long or the= fuel pump to be the source of the black particles.  Oh yeah, the fing= er strainers and the Gascolator are both able to move fuel.  I emptied= both tanks of about 15 gal of fuel so that I could try and check the finge= r strainers.  The boost pump filled a 5 gal can in 2 or 3 minutes pump= ing thru the strainers and Gascolator.  My fuel lines up to the FI pum= ps are all either =C2=BD inch or -8 in size.  After the FI pumps the f= uel lines go to -6 to the regulator and -4 to return to the tanks.

 <= /P>

Is anyone else seeing= this kind of material in their filters?

 <= /P>

Also, since this occu= rred with about a tank of gas since I last cleaned the filters, I am concer= ned about the capacity of the fuel filters I am using.  I am using Sum= mit filters like the one here.

 <= /P>

http://www.summitracin= g.com/parts/SUM-230105/

 <= /P>

This filter has a sma= ll screen that is about =C2=BE inch in diameter and is 40 microns, so when = it gets very little contamination, it plugs.  I am thinking it would b= e fine for a drag car, but not for hours of flight unless your system was s= o clean you didn=E2=80=99t need it in the first place.

 <= /P>

I originally had one = filter in the system, but became concerned and added another one.  Now= I am wondering if I should go to the type of filter that looks like an oil= filter and if I do, would one be sufficient or should I try and put in two= filters of that type.  I have very little space to add this type of f= ilter and I don=E2=80=99t know if it would even be possible to add two of t= hem.  I would really appreciate any input you guys could give and poss= ibly some pics of your installation if you are using the oil filter type.&n= bsp; Do these type have the capacity to flow fuel when they get contaminate= d or will they block like these small in line filters?

 <= /P>

Fuel starvation is a = major cause of experimental plane crashes and I am close enough to be think= ing of flying.  :>)    Hep me!  Hep me!<= /FONT>

 <= /P>

Bill B<= /P>

 <= /P>

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 201= 1 5:24 PM
To: Rotary mot= ors in aircraft
Subject:= [FlyRotary] Re: Apex seals and MAP table corruption?

 

I may be taking it ba= ck what I said about the MAP table.  During my runup today, I noticed = that the fuel pressure was dropping.  At full WOT, the pressure droppe= d to below 20 psi.  I engaged the secondary fuel pump and the pressure= came back to the 40 lb range.  It appears that my fuel filter after t= he primary pump may be partially clogged.  I will clean them tomorrow = and let you know what I find.

 <= /P>

Bill B<= /P>

 <= /P>

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