X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-db01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.91.95] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c1) with ESMTP id 4791431 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 10:57:37 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.91.95; envelope-from=Bktrub@aol.com Received: from imo-da03.mx.aol.com (imo-da03.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.201]) by imr-db01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p0JFuZLJ018955 for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 10:56:35 -0500 Received: from Bktrub@aol.com by imo-da03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.fc5.a839dfc (37084) for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 10:56:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtprly-de01.mx.aol.com (smtprly-de01.mx.aol.com [205.188.249.168]) by cia-db06.mx.aol.com (v129.7) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB066-b2334d3709ad2f3; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 10:56:31 -0500 Received: from webmail-d065 (webmail-d065.sim.aol.com [205.188.59.130]) by smtprly-de01.mx.aol.com (v129.5) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDE018-b2334d3709ad2f3; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 10:56:29 -0500 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: MAP table corruption? Nope! fuel filters! Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 10:56:29 -0500 X-AOL-IP: 69.84.254.253 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bktrub@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CD860891F6EA5A_1A00_1E48C_webmail-d065.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 33124-STANDARD Received: from 69.84.254.253 by webmail-d065.sysops.aol.com (205.188.59.130) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 19 Jan 2011 10:56:29 -0500 Message-Id: <8CD860891ED64D6-1A00-CCC4@webmail-d065.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Bktrub@aol.com ----------MB_8CD860891F6EA5A_1A00_1E48C_webmail-d065.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I"ve got mine mounted on the lower firewall, I don't know when I'll change= it, probably about the 100 hour mark, and will also cut it apart for insp= ection. You should see a pressure drop when it starts clogging at higher= throttle settings. The filter element is rather large, so I would guess= that it would take quite a bit of debris to clog it. I have a cowl access= door on the right side of my engine cowl, it allows me to sump the fuel= filter, check the alternator/water pump belt, and check the oil sight gla= ss on preflight. It is as easy as replacing an oil filter when it needs ch= anging.=20 If you have a gascolator, I would think that this would replace both the= gascolator and fuel filter.=20 Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Bill Bradburry To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Wed, Jan 19, 2011 7:04 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: MAP table corruption? Nope! fuel filters! Brian, How often will you change the filter? If you have just one, how do you de= termine that it is clogging so you can get safely on the ground? Is the= replacement filter one that can be easily accessed when/if you need to re= place it? =20 Tracy, could you please answer the same questions? =20 Is anyone finding that black granular material in the filter? If it is co= ming from the pump, is that normal for a new pump or is it a sign of pump= failure? I have run a total of maybe 50-60 gal thru my engine most of it= thru this same pump. That seems early to have any kind of failure?? =20 I would really like some pictures if installations for ideas. I have my= pumps and filters mounted in a vertical line up one side of the firewall.= If I remove the existing filters, I would have about 5 inches of vertica= l space to mount the canister filter. If it was 8.5 inches high like Bria= n=E2=80=99s filter, it would not fit in the space unless I shimmed it out= a couple of inches to clear the pumps below. This seems like it would no= t be sturdy?? =20 Bill B From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of bktrub@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 12:45 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: MAP table corruption? Nope! fuel filters! =20 I have one of the big oil type fuel filters- I got it from Jegs, and it ha= s a spigot on the canister to drain moisture off, so it doubles as a gasco= lator.=20 Lookee here:=20 http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+Products/555/15177/10002/-1 I imagine it would take a lot of crud to clog one of these.=20 =20 Brian Trubee =20 -----Original Message----- From: Bill Bradburry To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, Jan 18, 2011 9:33 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] MAP table corruption? Nope! fuel filters! Well, the MAP table was ok. The problem was my high pressure fuel filter= on the primary fuel pump. There were a lot of black particles in the fil= ter that had it blocked. The secondary filter was clean but had only been= run for a few minutes. This is the second time I found black material in= this filter. The first time was about 40 gallons ago. This previous mat= erial was somewhat gooey and I thought that it may have come from not prop= erly cleaning my hoses out after I made them. This time the material look= ed like tiny black particles. I don=E2=80=99t think they came from the ho= ses, but if not, they must have come from the pump itself. =20 My fuel system is ..from the wing tanks: a finger strainer in the outlet= of the tank, then to a fuel selector valve, then thru a boost pump, then= to a Gascolator, then to either of primary or secondary fuel pump, then= a filter after each pump, then fuel rail, then fuel pressure regulator,= then excess fuel returns thru the selector valve to the tank I am using= from. =20 I haven=E2=80=99t yet checked my finger strainers because they are a bitch= to get to, but my Gascolator did not have any of the black particles in= it. It had a small amount of white fuzz that is probably fiberglass dust= from my fuel tanks in it. This leaves me a section of -8 hose about 14= inches long or the fuel pump to be the source of the black particles. Oh= yeah, the finger strainers and the Gascolator are both able to move fuel.= I emptied both tanks of about 15 gal of fuel so that I could try and che= ck the finger strainers. The boost pump filled a 5 gal can in 2 or 3 minu= tes pumping thru the strainers and Gascolator. My fuel lines up to the FI= pumps are all either =C2=BD inch or -8 in size. After the FI pumps the= fuel lines go to -6 to the regulator and -4 to return to the tanks. =20 Is anyone else seeing this kind of material in their filters? =20 Also, since this occurred with about a tank of gas since I last cleaned th= e filters, I am concerned about the capacity of the fuel filters I am usin= g. I am using Summit filters like the one here. =20 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-230105/ =20 This filter has a small screen that is about =C2=BE inch in diameter and= is 40 microns, so when it gets very little contamination, it plugs. I am= thinking it would be fine for a drag car, but not for hours of flight unl= ess your system was so clean you didn=E2=80=99t need it in the first place= . =20 I originally had one filter in the system, but became concerned and added= another one. Now I am wondering if I should go to the type of filter tha= t looks like an oil filter and if I do, would one be sufficient or should= I try and put in two filters of that type. I have very little space to= add this type of filter and I don=E2=80=99t know if it would even be poss= ible to add two of them. I would really appreciate any input you guys cou= ld give and possibly some pics of your installation if you are using the= oil filter type. Do these type have the capacity to flow fuel when they= get contaminated or will they block like these small in line filters?=20 =20 Fuel starvation is a major cause of experimental plane crashes and I am cl= ose enough to be thinking of flying. :>) Hep me! Hep me! =20 Bill B =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 5:24 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Apex seals and MAP table corruption? =20 I may be taking it back what I said about the MAP table. During my runup= today, I noticed that the fuel pressure was dropping. At full WOT, the= pressure dropped to below 20 psi. I engaged the secondary fuel pump and= the pressure came back to the 40 lb range. It appears that my fuel filte= r after the primary pump may be partially clogged. I will clean them tomo= rrow and let you know what I find. =20 Bill B =20 ----------MB_8CD860891F6EA5A_1A00_1E48C_webmail-d065.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
I"ve got mine mounted on the lower firewall, I don't know when I'll= change it, probably about the 100 hour mark, and will also cut it apart= for inspection. You should see a pressure drop when it starts clogging at= higher throttle settings. The filter element is rather large, so I would= guess that it would take quite a bit of debris to clog it. I have a cowl= access door on the right side of my engine cowl, it allows me to sump the= fuel filter, check the alternator/water pump belt, and check the oil sigh= t glass on preflight. It is as easy as replacing an oil filter when it nee= ds changing.
 
If you have a gascolator, I would think that this would replace both&= nbsp;the gascolator and fuel filter.
 
Brian Trubee



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wed, Jan 19, 2011 7:04 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: MAP table corruption? Nope! fuel filters!

Brian,
How often will you= change the filter?  If you have just one, how do you determine that= it is clogging so you can get safely on the ground?  Is the replacem= ent filter one that can be easily accessed when/if you need to replace it?=
 
Tracy= ,  could you please answer the same= questions?
 
Is anyone finding= that black granular material in the filter?  If it is coming from th= e pump, is that normal for a new pump or is it a sign of pump failure?&nbs= p; I have run a total of maybe 50-60 gal thru my engine most of it thru th= is same pump.  That seems early to have any kind of failure??<= /FONT>
 
I would really like= some pictures if installations for ideas.  I have my pumps and filte= rs mounted in a vertical line up one side of the firewall.  If I remo= ve the existing filters, I would have about 5 inches of vertical space to= mount the canister filter.  If it was 8.5 inches high like Brian=E2= =80=99s filter, it would not fit in the space unless I shimmed it out a co= uple of inches to clear the pumps below.  This seems like it would no= t be sturdy??
 
Bill B
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of b= ktrub@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January= 19, 2011 12:45 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= MAP table corruption? Nope! fuel filters!
 
I have one of the= big oil type fuel filters- I got it from Jegs, and it has a spigot on the= canister to drain moisture off, so it doubles as a gascolator.
I imagine it woul= d take a lot of crud to clog one of these.
 
Brian Trubee
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Bradburry <bbrad= burry@bellsouth.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Jan 18, 2011 9:33 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] MAP table corruption? Nope! fuel filters!
Well, the MAP table= was ok.  The problem was my high pressure fuel filter on the primary= fuel pump.  There were a lot of black particles in the filter that= had it blocked.  The secondary filter was clean but had only been ru= n for a few minutes.  This is the second time I found black material= in this filter.  The first time was about 40 gallons ago.  This= previous material was somewhat gooey and I thought that it may have come= from not properly cleaning my hoses out after I made them.  This tim= e the material looked like tiny black particles.  I don=E2=80=99t thi= nk they came from the hoses, but if not, they must have come from the pump= itself.
 
My fuel system is= ..from the wing tanks: a finger strainer in the outlet of the tank, then= to a fuel selector valve, then thru a boost pump, then to a Gascolator,= then to either of primary or secondary fuel pump, then a filter after eac= h pump, then fuel rail, then fuel pressure regulator, then excess fuel ret= urns thru the selector valve to the tank I am using from.
 
I haven=E2=80=99t= yet checked my finger strainers because they are a bitch to get to, but= my Gascolator did not have any of the black particles in it.  It had= a small amount of white fuzz that is probably fiberglass dust from my fue= l tanks in it.  This leaves me a section of -8 hose about 14 inches= long or the fuel pump to be the source of the black particles.  Oh= yeah, the finger strainers and the Gascolator are both able to move fuel.=   I emptied both tanks of about 15 gal of fuel so that I could try an= d check the finger strainers.  The boost pump filled a 5 gal can in= 2 or 3 minutes pumping thru the strainers and Gascolator.  My fuel= lines up to the FI pumps are all either =C2=BD inch or -8 in size. = After the FI pumps the fuel lines go to -6 to the regulator and -4 to ret= urn to the tanks.<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
 
Is anyone else seei= ng this kind of material in their filters?
 
Also, since this oc= curred with about a tank of gas since I last cleaned the filters, I am con= cerned about the capacity of the fuel filters I am using.  I am using= Summit filters like the one here.
 
 
This filter has a= small screen that is about =C2=BE inch in diameter and is 40 microns, so= when it gets very little contamination, it plugs.  I am thinking it= would be fine for a drag car, but not for hours of flight unless your sys= tem was so clean you didn=E2=80=99t need it in the first place.
 
I originally had on= e filter in the system, but became concerned and added another one. = Now I am wondering if I should go to the type of filter that looks like= an oil filter and if I do, would one be sufficient or should I try and pu= t in two filters of that type.  I have very little space to add this= type of filter and I don=E2=80=99t know if it would even be possible to= add two of them.  I would really appreciate any input you guys could= give and possibly some pics of your installation if you are using the oil= filter type.  Do these type have the capacity to flow fuel when they= get contaminated or will they block like these small in line filters?
 
Fuel starvation is= a major cause of experimental plane crashes and I am close enough to be= thinking of flying.  :>)    Hep me!  Hep me!<= /SPAN>
 
Bill B
 
From:<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Rotary= motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net] On Behal= f Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Sunday, January 16,= 2011 5:24 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= Apex seals and MAP table corruption?
 
I may be taking it= back what I said about the MAP table.  During my runup today, I noti= ced that the fuel pressure was dropping.  At full WOT, the pressure= dropped to below 20 psi.  I engaged the secondary fuel pump and the= pressure came back to the 40 lb range.  It appears that my fuel filt= er after the primary pump may be partially clogged.  I will clean the= m tomorrow and let you know what I find.
 
Bill B
 
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