X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost06.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.56] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c1) with ESMTP id 4791343 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 10:05:00 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.115.11.56; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-85-106-221.mco.bellsouth.net[98.85.106.221]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc06) with SMTP id <20110119150423H0600e7i79e>; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 15:04:23 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [98.85.106.221] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: MAP table corruption? Nope! fuel filters! Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 10:04:23 -0500 Message-ID: <3984CB16774542C29F73839BDA549C77@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0035_01CBB7C0.3F9B5760" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acu3nCACdT5P9/HNQ8ihjxhzwBYjRgATFamA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01CBB7C0.3F9B5760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian, How often will you change the filter? If you have just one, how do you determine that it is clogging so you can get safely on the ground? Is = the replacement filter one that can be easily accessed when/if you need to replace it? =20 Tracy, could you please answer the same questions? =20 Is anyone finding that black granular material in the filter? If it is coming from the pump, is that normal for a new pump or is it a sign of = pump failure? I have run a total of maybe 50-60 gal thru my engine most of = it thru this same pump. That seems early to have any kind of failure?? =20 I would really like some pictures if installations for ideas. I have my pumps and filters mounted in a vertical line up one side of the = firewall. If I remove the existing filters, I would have about 5 inches of = vertical space to mount the canister filter. If it was 8.5 inches high like = Brian=92s filter, it would not fit in the space unless I shimmed it out a couple = of inches to clear the pumps below. This seems like it would not be = sturdy?? =20 Bill B _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of bktrub@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 12:45 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: MAP table corruption? Nope! fuel filters! =20 I have one of the big oil type fuel filters- I got it from Jegs, and it = has a spigot on the canister to drain moisture off, so it doubles as a gascolator.=20 Lookee here:=20 http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+Products/555/15177/10002/-1 I imagine it would take a lot of crud to clog one of these.=20 =20 Brian Trubee =20 -----Original Message----- From: Bill Bradburry To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, Jan 18, 2011 9:33 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] MAP table corruption? Nope! fuel filters! Well, the MAP table was ok. The problem was my high pressure fuel = filter on the primary fuel pump. There were a lot of black particles in the = filter that had it blocked. The secondary filter was clean but had only been = run for a few minutes. This is the second time I found black material in = this filter. The first time was about 40 gallons ago. This previous = material was somewhat gooey and I thought that it may have come from not properly cleaning my hoses out after I made them. This time the material looked = like tiny black particles. I don=92t think they came from the hoses, but if = not, they must have come from the pump itself. =20 My fuel system is ..from the wing tanks: a finger strainer in the outlet = of the tank, then to a fuel selector valve, then thru a boost pump, then to = a Gascolator, then to either of primary or secondary fuel pump, then a = filter after each pump, then fuel rail, then fuel pressure regulator, then = excess fuel returns thru the selector valve to the tank I am using from. =20 I haven=92t yet checked my finger strainers because they are a bitch to = get to, but my Gascolator did not have any of the black particles in it. It = had a small amount of white fuzz that is probably fiberglass dust from my = fuel tanks in it. This leaves me a section of -8 hose about 14 inches long = or the fuel pump to be the source of the black particles. Oh yeah, the = finger strainers and the Gascolator are both able to move fuel. I emptied both tanks of about 15 gal of fuel so that I could try and check the finger strainers. The boost pump filled a 5 gal can in 2 or 3 minutes pumping = thru the strainers and Gascolator. My fuel lines up to the FI pumps are all either =BD inch or -8 in size. After the FI pumps the fuel lines go to = -6 to the regulator and -4 to return to the tanks. =20 Is anyone else seeing this kind of material in their filters? =20 Also, since this occurred with about a tank of gas since I last cleaned = the filters, I am concerned about the capacity of the fuel filters I am = using. I am using Summit filters like the one here. =20 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-230105/ =20 This filter has a small screen that is about =BE inch in diameter and is = 40 microns, so when it gets very little contamination, it plugs. I am = thinking it would be fine for a drag car, but not for hours of flight unless your system was so clean you didn=92t need it in the first place. =20 I originally had one filter in the system, but became concerned and = added another one. Now I am wondering if I should go to the type of filter = that looks like an oil filter and if I do, would one be sufficient or should = I try and put in two filters of that type. I have very little space to = add this type of filter and I don=92t know if it would even be possible to = add two of them. I would really appreciate any input you guys could give and possibly some pics of your installation if you are using the oil filter type. Do these type have the capacity to flow fuel when they get contaminated or will they block like these small in line filters?=20 =20 Fuel starvation is a major cause of experimental plane crashes and I am close enough to be thinking of flying. :>) Hep me! Hep me! =20 Bill B =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [ mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 5:24 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Apex seals and MAP table corruption? =20 I may be taking it back what I said about the MAP table. During my = runup today, I noticed that the fuel pressure was dropping. At full WOT, the pressure dropped to below 20 psi. I engaged the secondary fuel pump and = the pressure came back to the 40 lb range. It appears that my fuel filter = after the primary pump may be partially clogged. I will clean them tomorrow = and let you know what I find. =20 Bill B =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01CBB7C0.3F9B5760 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Brian,

How often will you change the = filter?=A0 If you have just one, how do you determine that it is clogging so you can get = safely on the ground?=A0 Is the replacement filter one that can be easily = accessed when/if you need to replace it?

 

Tracy,=A0 could you please answer the same = questions?

 

Is anyone finding that black = granular material in the filter?=A0 If it is coming from the pump, is that normal = for a new pump or is it a sign of pump failure?=A0 I have run a total of maybe = 50-60 gal thru my engine most of it thru this same pump.=A0 That seems early = to have any kind of failure??

 

I would really like some pictures = if installations for ideas.=A0 I have my pumps and filters mounted in a = vertical line up one side of the firewall.=A0 If I remove the existing filters, I = would have about 5 inches of vertical space to mount the canister filter.=A0 If it = was 8.5 inches high like Brian’s filter, it would not fit in the space = unless I shimmed it out a couple of inches to clear the pumps below.=A0 This seems like = it would not be sturdy??

 

Bill B

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of bktrub@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, January = 19, 2011 12:45 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = MAP table corruption? Nope! fuel filters!

 

I have one of the big oil type = fuel filters- I got it from Jegs, and it has a spigot on the canister to = drain moisture off, so it doubles as a gascolator. =

I imagine it would take a lot of = crud to clog one of these.

 

=

Brian = Trubee

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Jan 18, 2011 9:33 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] MAP table corruption? Nope! fuel = filters!

Well, the MAP table was ok.  = The problem was my high pressure fuel filter on the primary fuel pump.  = There were a lot of black particles in the filter that had it blocked.  = The secondary filter was clean but had only been run for a few = minutes.  This is the second time I found black material in this filter.  The = first time was about 40 gallons ago.  This previous material was somewhat = gooey and I thought that it may have come from not properly cleaning my hoses out = after I made them.  This time the material looked like tiny black = particles.  I don’t think they came from the hoses, but if not, they must have = come from the pump itself.

 

My fuel system is ..from the wing = tanks: a finger strainer in the outlet of the tank, then to a fuel selector = valve, then thru a boost pump, then to a Gascolator, then to either of primary or = secondary fuel pump, then a filter after each pump, then fuel rail, then fuel = pressure regulator, then excess fuel returns thru the selector valve to the tank = I am using from.

 

I haven’t yet checked my = finger strainers because they are a bitch to get to, but my Gascolator did not = have any of the black particles in it.  It had a small amount of white = fuzz that is probably fiberglass dust from my fuel tanks in it.  This = leaves me a section of -8 hose about 14 inches long or the fuel pump to be the = source of the black particles.  Oh yeah, the finger strainers and the = Gascolator are both able to move fuel.  I emptied both tanks of about 15 gal of = fuel so that I could try and check the finger strainers.  The boost pump = filled a 5 gal can in 2 or 3 minutes pumping thru the strainers and = Gascolator.  My fuel lines up to the FI pumps are all either =BD inch or -8 in = size.  After the FI pumps the fuel lines go to -6 to the regulator and -4 to return = to the tanks.

 

Is anyone else seeing this kind of material in their filters?

 

Also, since this occurred with = about a tank of gas since I last cleaned the filters, I am concerned about the = capacity of the fuel filters I am using.  I am using Summit filters like the one = here.

 

 

This filter has a small screen that = is about =BE inch in diameter and is 40 microns, so when it gets very = little contamination, it plugs.  I am thinking it would be fine for a drag = car, but not for hours of flight unless your system was so clean you = didn’t need it in the first place.

 

I originally had one filter in the = system, but became concerned and added another one.  Now I am wondering if = I should go to the type of filter that looks like an oil filter and if I = do, would one be sufficient or should I try and put in two filters of that type.  I have very little space to add this type of filter and I don’t know if it would even be possible to add two of them.  = I would really appreciate any input you guys could give and possibly some pics = of your installation if you are using the oil filter type.  Do these type = have the capacity to flow fuel when they get contaminated or will they block like = these small in line filters?

 

Fuel starvation is a major cause of experimental plane crashes and I am close enough to be thinking of flying.  :>)    Hep me!  Hep = me!

 

Bill B

 

From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net= ] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Sunday, January 16, = 2011 5:24 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Apex seals and MAP table corruption?

 

I may be taking it back what I said = about the MAP table.  During my runup today, I noticed that the fuel = pressure was dropping.  At full WOT, the pressure dropped to below 20 = psi.  I engaged the secondary fuel pump and the pressure came back to the 40 lb range.  It appears that my fuel filter after the primary pump may = be partially clogged.  I will clean them tomorrow and let you know = what I find.

 

Bill B

 

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